The Key Problem with Bar Tables

[dnschmidt]

85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. During my misspent youth it was illegal to sell alcohol in pool halls in the state of Pennsylvania. This was the best law ever. Why, because if you went into a pool hall you were there to play pool. You were not there to drink, eat, listen to loud music or pick up chicks since there were very few of them around in any of the pool halls of Pittsburgh. No buddy, you were there to play pool.

I had a opponent name Chuck Richardson, nickname: Chuck the Cheese. I was a Research Scientist at Westinghouse R&D Center and he was a Product Manager for PPG. We were both strong 5's and very evenly matched. He and I went at it tooth and nail every night for at least five years. Spectators included Ranger Rick and Tom the Roofer. Catcalls were commonly heard if somebody dogged it. Game was 9-ball race to 5 and we played 3 or 5 sets before we went back home. The stakes were always the same. Loser pays the time. Earl and Efren never played each other as hard as we did.

Pool to us was competition, companionship, trash talking and a game that fascinated both of us. I can't see how this could have worked in a bar. Without pool halls there is no pool. Sad fact but that's the way it is. I haven't seen "The Cheese" in thirty years and I don't even know if he's dead or alive, but, if he's alive I bet he still has his Gold Crown III in his house and I had a Diamond in mine, but, it's not the same as playing Chuck at either Jimmy Mario's Golden Cue or Chalky's where the point was to beat him like a rented mule.

 

[ktrepal85]

If it wasn't for the pool table at my neighborhood bar I would have never decided to take an interest in pool and move on to play in leagues, tournaments, and gambling. Everybody has got to start somewhere. Plus I still like beating up on some drunkards from time to time when I am out and about. They think I play like a pro. Little do they know I'm nothing special...

 

[philly]

I know I'll take flak for this but I agree somewhat with the OP. Pool should be played on 9 footers in a poolroom. Especially if your new the game, you should be playing in a poolroom. It's really the only place to gain real knowledge of the game. I recently played two all day tournaments on 7 foot Diamonds and it doesn't come close to the experience that one gets on a 9 footer. The sense of satisfaction you get running out on a 7 footer doesn't compare to the feel of running out on the larger table. Just my opinion obviously.

 

[Donny Lutz]

bar tables

85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. During my misspent youth it was illegal to sell alcohol in pool halls in the state of Pennsylvania. This was the best law ever. Why, because if you went into a pool hall you were there to play pool. You were not there to drink, eat, listen to loud music or pick up chicks since there were very few of them around in any of the pool halls of Pittsburgh. No buddy, you were there to play pool.

I had a opponent name Chuck Richardson, nickname: Chuck the Cheese. I was a Research Scientist at Westinghouse R&D Center and he was a Product Manager for PPG. We were both strong 5's and very evenly matched. He and I went at it tooth and nail every night for at least five years. Spectators included Ranger Rick and Tom the Roofer. Catcalls were commonly heard if somebody dogged it. Game was 9-ball race to 5 and we played 3 or 5 sets before we went back home. The stakes were always the same. Loser pays the time. Earl and Efren never played each other as hard as we did.

Pool to us was competition, companionship, trash talking and a game that fascinated both of us. I can't see how this could have worked in a bar. Without pool halls there is no pool. Sad fact but that's the way it is. I haven't seen "The Cheese" in thirty years and I don't even know if he's dead or alive, but, if he's alive I bet he still has his Gold Crown III in his house and I had a Diamond in mine, but, it's not the same as playing Chuck at either Jimmy Mario's Golden Cue or Chalky's where the point was to beat him like a rented mule.

Some of us see this a bit differently. The bar table made pool available to countless businesses and homes that do not have room for 9' tables. Without bar tables you would not have over a million people playing in pool leagues, - few big amateur events such as we've had for forty years.

A number of Hall of Fame players played a lot of bar table pool. Even Mosconi promoted them in the 1960s. If bar tables ruined pool, how did Valley manage to sell hundreds of thousands of tables?

If you don't like them, that's your choice. As for me, I'll play on almost any size table, and usually enjoy it.

 

[macguy]

85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.

I grew up in Pittsburgh. During my misspent youth it was illegal to sell alcohol in pool halls in the state of Pennsylvania. This was the best law ever. Why, because if you went into a pool hall you were there to play pool. You were not there to drink, eat, listen to loud music or pick up chicks since there were very few of them around in any of the pool halls of Pittsburgh. No buddy, you were there to play pool.

I had a opponent name Chuck Richardson, nickname: Chuck the Cheese. I was a Research Scientist at Westinghouse R&D Center and he was a Product Manager for PPG. We were both strong 5's and very evenly matched. He and I went at it tooth and nail every night for at least five years. Spectators included Ranger Rick and Tom the Roofer. Catcalls were commonly heard if somebody dogged it. Game was 9-ball race to 5 and we played 3 or 5 sets before we went back home. The stakes were always the same. Loser pays the time. Earl and Efren never played each other as hard as we did.

Pool to us was competition, companionship, trash talking and a game that fascinated both of us. I can't see how this could have worked in a bar. Without pool halls there is no pool. Sad fact but that's the way it is. I haven't seen "The Cheese" in thirty years and I don't even know if he's dead or alive, but, if he's alive I bet he still has his Gold Crown III in his house and I had a Diamond in mine, but, it's not the same as playing Chuck at either Jimmy Mario's Golden Cue or Chalky's where the point was to beat him like a rented mule.

Your interest seems to be public perception. I would say the average person has a better perception of pool on a bar table in a friendly local tavern. Compared to pool in a seedy pool room with drug dealers, hustlers and bums.

Since most people do themselves go in bars and often play pool there, they have no misgivings regarding pool in bars as some terrible thing. It is just a fun pass time they identify with.

 

[ktrepal85]

Some of us see this a bit differently. The bar table made pool available to countless businesses and homes that do not have room for 9' tables. Without bar tables you would not have over a million people playing in pool leagues, - few big amateur events such as we've had for forty years.

A number of Hall of Fame players played a lot of bar table pool. Even Mosconi promoted them in the 1960s. If bar tables ruined pool, how did Valley manage to sell hundreds of thousands of tables?

If you don't like them, that's your choice. As for me, I'll play on almost any size table, and usually enjoy it.

Plus if you really suck it's not any fun to play on 9 foot tables. If you can't make a straight in shot from 2 feet away your sure as hell not gonna have any fun shooting an 8 foot shot. Lot of people would never start playing pool because it wouldn't be any fun. I think you've got to work your way up to a 9 foot table.

 

[KRJ]

85% of what's wrong with bar tables is that they're in bars. They sigmatize the game as one played by drunken losers that are far more concerned with picking up chicks and getting drunk than they are about learning to play this fantastic game. Bar tables, not so much for their size but for their location, have killed this game and it never will be resurrected as it presents a demographic and image to mainstream sponsors, the only hope for making the game more popular, of low income, lowlifes wasting time.
e.

You are quite the nit. Just insult most league players who keep this game going, all 400K of them. And of course, only a nit starts a second thread on the same topic he posted a few days ago. Well played.


Grow up for Pete sake, cause u have no idea what u are talking about and co me odd as a complete nit.

Yes, all losers that many could buy and sell you. Yeah, the horrors of wanting to meet girls in a bar ??

And a pool room that does not have beer is not gonna stay in biz very long,,,,yes, there are the exceptions, but man, what a stupid business decision.

 

[lorider]

there is always a flip side to every story here is mine.

i started playing in certain bars when i was 16...owners were friends of my step dad. i watched wide world of sports and decided i wanted to learn on the big tables.

i went to our one and only local pool hall where i low lifes were hanging around trying to hustle suckers like me. i also felt unwelcome to snide remarks and jeers about my playing ability. a while later it was closed...surely it could not have been for low lifes hanging around that run people like me off...could it ?

that situation has not changed in the last 40 years because every once in a while you have a poster come on here " serious player " and laugh about some newby he encountered in his pool hall.

so back to playing in bars is where i spent my money. fast forward to 10 years ago when i was playing in a bar and an opponent asked me to join his bcapl team. come to find out i was better than any body on his team lol. so i went and bought a cue and a case and started playing in a pool hall for the 1st time in 40 years.

since then i have joined other leagues...bought about a dozen cues..several cases. took an all day lesson with randy g.

all because i got pretty good playing in bars.

 

[Atlatlien]

So the secret to mainstream sponsors is to take pool tables out of bars? What made darts so successful? Never been in a Darts Hall before.

"No bar, no pinball machines, no bowling alleys, just darts, nothing else"....

 

[cardiac kid]

On a different note, bar boxes are the last refuge of some of us really, really old guys trying to stay up with the young set. Yes, I'm still somewhat competative on the big tables. Always like to THINK no one HAS to beat me on the small tables. Truthfully I'm better at beating myself than allowing my opponents to beat me. In old age comes clarity!

Take away the small tables and the game of pool is dead. Between the league players, old folks like me and the latest move by CSI, the direction of the game seems clear. JMHO.

Lyn

 

[Proofsc]

We get it you don't like bar tables but like many said if it weren't for them I would have never started playing. Sure I am only one person but imagine all the other peoe like me and the league players. The thing is you're looking at everyone playing pool as if they want to be a professional when that's not true. Did you ever play baseball? You start out on a small field then as you get older and better the field gets bigger because people get really good and if you're not good enough to make it anywhere you play softball, it's the same in pool. If you're not good enough or just want to play for fun you play bar table and let people like us with the skills play 9 footers play them. People don't want to keep shooting and missing, they want to run out and it's easier on bar tables, you have to keep interest.

 

[philly]

As I stated in a previous post in this thread, I recently played 2 tournaments on 7 foot Diamonds. These tournaments were in a poolroom which had four 7 foot Diamonds. This poolroom has ten beautiful 9 foot Gold Crowns with Simonis also. There was a 32 man field for each tournament. I had a discussion with the room owner asking why he didn't use the 9 footers since he had more of them and he told me he would never fill the field if he held it on the bigger tables. There were some really top notch players there that are known throughout the Philly area. I can't figure it out but there you go!

 

[Buzzard II]

Now I'm a social security collecting geezer with arthritis in the load bearing foot, both wrists, thumbs and eyes that can't see a six ball on green cloth. I also have a 9' GC in the basement.

I love bar tables, the smaller the better. I can play on one and look like I can sink a ball. What the F's wrong with that?

 

[Neil]

I imagine that if this forum was around in the 50's, you would here the same nonsense over people preferring those toy 9' tables instead of the real 10' tables.

Times change, things change. We are in the middle of a change now. Deal with it.

 

[tjshaw02]

I first found my love for pool while I was in a bar. AA bar team picked me up just from playing with them and the rest is history!

 

[philly]

I imagine that if this forum was around in the 50's, you would here the same nonsense over people preferring those toy 9' tables instead of the real 10' tables.

Times change, things change. We are in the middle of a change now. Deal with it.

Good observation Neil. I'm in my early 60's and in great physical shape but I realize I won't be forever. Many of our older AZBers love the 7 footers because it allows them to keep playing the game they love. You may be right. Things are changing. Everything does. But at this point in my life if I had only 7 footers to play on I wouldn't spend nearly as much time on the table as I do now. Don't get the same amount of satisfaction on the BB. Not even close. I will have to deal with it, as you say, sometime in the future perhaps.

 

[jasonlaus]

I imagine that if this forum was around in the 50's, you would here the same nonsense over people preferring those toy 9' tables instead of the real 10' tables.

Times change, things change. We are in the middle of a change now. Deal with it.

That's why I have a 10'er, ya bunch of sissy's

 

[StraightPoolIU]

Two points.

1. I think the game being in bars does hurt the game with juniors and getting kids into the game. Other sports don't have this problem. As far as the rest of it regarding "perception" I don't much care because there are a lot of people who enjoy the game this way even if it's not my preferred way.

2. The key problem with bar tables from a playability perspective is that if it's a Valley it plays distinctly different from a normal pool table in a few ways regarding the pockets and the rails and needing a special cue ball for the ball return. Diamond 7 ft tables do not have this issue as they play pretty much exactly like a Diamond 9ft table only smaller. The pocket ratios are the same, cue ball is the same, etc.

P.S. I still can't figure out why so many bars still have Valley tables with the mud ball. Everyone in pool leagues around here carries around a green logo Aramith cue ball to swap out on league nights. Why don't the bars just have green logo Aramith balls?

 

[pwd72s]

At 71, I no longer like the bar scene...sure did when I was a young pup, cutting his milk teeth on tap beer.

I really think the OP was meaning it was the bar scene, not the table...and today, I have to agree. Loud jukes playing rap & drunks just aren't my taste these days...

I drive around 80 miles round trip to be able to play in a real pool hall with no booze, no loud rap music...play in the afternoon to avoid the night life.

I play there on a classic Brunswick...this hall has both Centennial and Anniversary 9' tables. I consider myself lucky.

 

[ktrepal85]

Two points.

1. I think the game being in bars does hurt the game with juniors and getting kids into the game. Other sports don't have this problem. As far as the rest of it regarding "perception" I don't much care because there are a lot of people who enjoy the game this way even if it's not my preferred way.

2. The key problem with bar tables from a playability perspective is that if it's a Valley it plays distinctly different from a normal pool table in a few ways regarding the pockets and the rails and needing a special cue ball for the ball return. Diamond 7 ft tables do not have this issue as they play pretty much exactly like a Diamond 9ft table only smaller. The pocket ratios are the same, cue ball is the same, etc.

P.S. I still can't figure out why so many bars still have Valley tables with the mud ball. Everyone in pool leagues around here carries around a green logo Aramith cue ball to swap out on league nights. Why don't the bars just have green logo Aramith balls?

Those mud balls are the worst!