Diamond barbox pocket measurements

B

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
A friend of mine is about to embark on a mission to convert the cushions on eight Valley /Cougar 7-footers to a more Diamond-like pockets. This is being done on a low budget so sending them out to a pro isn't an option. He has the budget for new cushions and cloth, but nothing more.

I took these measurements from a Diamond barbox and would like to know if they are correct (I apologize if I've used incorrect terminology; please advise):

Corner pockets: 4-7/16" opening narrows to 3-3/4" at the pocket. Rail angle is 142 degrees. Inside pocket rail "bevel" angle is 77 degrees (or 13 degrees, depending on which way you're looking at it).

Side pockets: 5" opening narrows to 4-1/8" at the pocket. Rail angle is 102 degrees. Same 77-degree inside the pocket bevel angle.

Many thanks.
 
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bdorman said:
A friend of mine is about to embark on a mission to convert the cushions on eight Valley /Cougar 7-footers to a more Diamond-like pockets. This is being done on a low budget so sending them out to a pro isn't an option. He has the budget for new cushions and cloth, but nothing more.

I took these measurements from a Diamond barbox and would like to know if they are correct (I apologize if I've used incorrect terminology; please advise):

Corner pockets: 4-7/16" opening narrows to 3-3/4" at the pocket. Rail angle is 142 degrees. Inside pocket rail "bevel" angle is 77 degrees (or 13 degrees, depending on which way you're looking at it).

Side pockets: 5" opening narrows to 4-1/8" at the pocket. Rail angle is 102 degrees. Same 77-degree inside the pocket bevel angle.

Many thanks.
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Apparently you didn't bother to measure the pockets on the Valleys. It's not the pocket opening, it's the shelf depth that makes them play differently.
 
Or if you have the cloth already purchased, send the rail cloth to Ridgeback..I think $6 per rail. The pro cuts will give you as close to Diamond I think possible.
 
Neil said:
Apparently you didn't bother to measure the pockets on the Valleys. It's not the pocket opening, it's the shelf depth that makes them play differently.
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True enough, but I don't think we want to get into changing the shelf depth :D We're trying to do the best with what we've got.

The challenge is that it's 8 tables on a low budget. But I can't complain -- how many bars do you know that have 8 Valley tables and NO CHARGE for table time? They don't even bug you to buy a drink. The bartender gives me a glass of water and I tip her $5 -- and play for 3-4 hours.
 
bdorman said:
True enough, but I don't think we want to get into changing the shelf depth :D We're trying to do the best with what we've got.

The challenge is that it's 8 tables on a low budget. But I can't complain -- how many bars do you know that have 8 Valley tables and NO CHARGE for table time? They don't even bug you to buy a drink. The bartender gives me a glass of water and I tip her $5 -- and play for 3-4 hours.
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You won't get it to play near a diamond table without changing the shelfs. The pocket angles really don't matter at all on a valley because once the ball gets between the points, it's down. All you can do is get Ridgeback rails to make the rails play closer to a diamond, and cut down the opening of the pockets to make them a little tougher.

When I did my valley, I found that even 4 1/8" pockets didn't make that much of a difference until I redid it and extended the shelfs. But, I totally understand not wanting to do that on a bunch of commercial tables.
 
bdorman said:
True enough, but I don't think we want to get into changing the shelf depth :D We're trying to do the best with what we've got.

The challenge is that it's 8 tables on a low budget. But I can't complain -- how many bars do you know that have 8 Valley tables and NO CHARGE for table time? They don't even bug you to buy a drink. The bartender gives me a glass of water and I tip her $5 -- and play for 3-4 hours.
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This post confuses me. Do they do so little business with eight free tables that they can't feel justified in putting some money out there?
 
Banks said:
This post confuses me. Do they do so little business with eight free tables that they can't feel justified in putting some money out there?
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Most places like that, that give away free pool all the time no matter what....all cry about the cost of maintaining the pool tables, but don't miss a beat to grab the money when it comes to drinks and food....if they even serve any;) if the owner was smart at all, they'd at least charge .25 to play pool, then they wouldn't have to dig deep in their pockets to maintain the tables on a regular basis. If the customers that frequent the location complain about paying .25 a game....kick them out, they're not customers, they're free loaders!!!
 
realkingcobra said:
Most places like that, that give away free pool all the time no matter what....all cry about the cost of maintaining the pool tables, but don't miss a beat to grab the money when it comes to drinks and food....if they even serve any;) if the owner was smart at all, they'd at least charge .25 to play pool, then they wouldn't have to dig deep in their pockets to maintain the tables on a regular basis. If the customers that frequent the location complain about paying .25 a game....kick them out, they're not customers, they're free loaders!!!
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For the most part, the free tables I've seen are worth the price, so to speak. Offer good products at a good price and people show up with money in their hands. I wouldn't be getting more diamonds if that wasn't the case.
 
Banks said:
This post confuses me. Do they do so little business with eight free tables that they can't feel justified in putting some money out there?
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Yes and no. He's got an APA league playing there, plus one 8-ball and one 9-ball tournament per week. The 9-ball tournament usually gets 10-16 players at $10 entry, plus he adds $100 to the prize fund (no greens fees; everything goes into the prize fund). A couple of weeks ago I counted the number of beer bottles on the player-tables...8 bottles and no food purchases. He's doing it because he wants the place to look busy and he occassionally plays when it's slow. If I were him I'd be hard-pressed to drop $4,000 on the tables too ($225 for rails, $275? for cloth, times eight). Five video-gaming machines keep the place going.

realkingcobra said:
If the customers that frequent the location complain about paying .25 a game....kick them out, they're not customers, they're free loaders!!!
Click to expand...

Hey, watch who you're calling a free-loader :D

For clarification, the tables are NOT in horrible condition. In fact, they're significantly better than most that I've seen in bars (if we could just get him to get rid of the talc cone -- geez, what a mess! But the truck drivers cry like little girls when he doesn't replace it).
 
bdorman said:
Yes and no. He's got an APA league playing there, plus one 8-ball and one 9-ball tournament per week. The 9-ball tournament usually gets 10-16 players at $10 entry, plus he adds $100 to the prize fund (no greens fees; everything goes into the prize fund). A couple of weeks ago I counted the number of beer bottles on the player-tables...8 bottles and no food purchases. He's doing it because he wants the place to look busy and he occassionally plays when it's slow. If I were him I'd be hard-pressed to drop $4,000 on the tables too ($225 for rails, $275? for cloth, times eight). Five video-gaming machines keep the place going.



Hey, watch who you're calling a free-loader :D

For clarification, the tables are NOT in horrible condition. In fact, they're significantly better than most that I've seen in bars (if we could just get him to get rid of the talc cone -- geez, what a mess! But the truck drivers cry like little girls when he doesn't replace it).
Click to expand...

He'd be better off collecting .50 a game, the put up a sign for example erode to read saying "All monies collected in quarters playing my pool tables, once a month will be added to the end of the month pool tournament with NO entry fee required"
 
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