You say most people. Well, since the pendulum stroke came from the instructors, and they teach some leeway with it, including dropping the elbow some after contact,(about an arms width), just where are these people getting there information from?
Pool's "Best Practices"
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
You say most people. Well, since the pendulum stroke came from the instructors, and they teach some leeway with it, including dropping the elbow some after contact,(about an arms width), just where are these people getting there information from?
You've lost me here, lol..........I am from Kentucky, though.:smile:
On the forward stroke, regardless of whether one drops the elbow or not, to me it's a pushing motion.........the hand is at the butt end of the stick, we pull it back using mainly the triceps (back swing) and we push it forward mainly using the biceps. When the elbow drops, we're flexing the shoulder too (forward flexion).......adding more push.
Am I missing something?Thanks.
DTL
Sounds right to me............
Can't be a NC thing
Maybe it's a takeaway from weight lifting. Normally you have push days or pull days. Push involves chest and shoulder presses which involve the triceps as the secondary muscle. Pull is usually back day which includes the biceps.
On the backswing you use your triceps to straighten your arm and the forward stroke uses the bicep to contract the arm.
Anytime you push something it usually involves straightening the arm just like in the backstroke.
And you never try to pull something towards you by straightening your arm.
Meh... still not convinced but I see where you are coming from and why you might see it that way. I just equate straightening the arm as a push and bending as a pull. In your analogy you could also see yourself as pushing the wagon forward instead of pulling it backward. I don't think body position matters. If you are standing between a wall and a car and put your back against the wall and push the car with your feet it is a pushing motion. Now if you turn around and totally reverse your body position and put your back against the car with your feet on the wall it is still a push, it doesn't then become a pull just because your relative body position has changed.
While instructors may accept leeway, that doesn't make it a pendulum stroke. If there is only a little bit of elbow drop, it can be nearly a pendulum stroke, but you can't change the definition of pendulum to suit your needs.
Also, would you consider this a pendulum stroke? Because I doubt most would. The closest you could claim is that it resembled a pendulum stroke before contact.
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"The end may justify the means as long as there is something that justifies the end." Leon Trotsky
My explanation was too late. I see you already covered it.
draw
I found the best practice was to practice draw. By putting an object ball next to the side pocket and drawing the cue ball back into the side pocket you are standing at.
This really straightened out my stroke as you know when you are dead on and it's from a harder stroke.
I then practiced from balls at the half way line and the cue ball on the foot string drawing back to the rail.
Now I am drawing from all over as not to wear burn marks into my cloth.
My long stuns shots are much better now along with all shots.
Draw practice/drills has helps me the most of all.
Playing 10 ball helps with cue ball control.
All the best,
DOA
I found the best practice was to practice draw. By putting an object ball next to the side pocket and drawing the cue ball back into the side pocket you are standing at.
This really straightened out my stroke as you know when you are dead on and it's from a harder stroke.
I then practiced from balls at the half way line and the cue ball on the foot string drawing back to the rail.
Now I am drawing from all over as not to wear burn marks into my cloth.
My long stuns shots are much better now along with all shots.
Draw practice/drills has helps me the most of all.
Playing 10 ball helps with cue ball control.
All the best,
DOA
Push - Pull My Thoughts for what it is worth.
I think in terms of the tip, after all isn't the purpose of a stroke the actions to deliver the pool tip to a target.
A push is an action of moving an object away from your body, a pull is an action of moving an action toward your body.
On the back stroke, you are moving the tip toward your body (pull) and on the forward stroke you are moving the tip away from your body (push)
There was a thread on this subject some time ago, which ended as most threads do around here. I suspect this thread will end the same way.
I think in terms of the tip, after all isn't the purpose of a stroke the actions to deliver the pool tip to a target.
A push is an action of moving an object away from your body, a pull is an action of moving an action toward your body.
On the back stroke, you are moving the tip toward your body (pull) and on the forward stroke you are moving the tip away from your body (push)
There was a thread on this subject some time ago, which ended as most threads do around here. I suspect this thread will end the same way.
Mr MASAYOSHI
Don’t you know that posting videos like that is sacrilegious on here?
Earl aiming low, delivering a forward cue ball with extreme power and extreme spin, and clearing the cue up.
I think I saw an elbow drop, maybe I didn't, I am pretty sure he did drop the elbow on the way in, especially since he cleared the cue stick up, he may have hinged the wrist. OMG his stick went up in the air, call the pool police. I almost want to bet he hit that inside the cue ball, possibly a swipe.
He may have climbed the ladder, possibly an upstroke, OMG an upstroke and a swipe. Video was grainy, maybe I was seeing things. I can't believe he sits in his stance, Imagine Earl Strickland does not have a proper stance. It looks like he did a few things right, he made the ball, the juice grabbed well.
I may have witnessed the extended stroke and completion, his cue was almost to the side pocket. I have to watch it another 23 million times to make sure I witnessed this. Earl needs lessons, that was wrong in so many ways.
Sincerely:SS
Don’t you know that posting videos like that is sacrilegious on here?
Earl aiming low, delivering a forward cue ball with extreme power and extreme spin, and clearing the cue up.
I think I saw an elbow drop, maybe I didn't, I am pretty sure he did drop the elbow on the way in, especially since he cleared the cue stick up, he may have hinged the wrist. OMG his stick went up in the air, call the pool police. I almost want to bet he hit that inside the cue ball, possibly a swipe.
He may have climbed the ladder, possibly an upstroke, OMG an upstroke and a swipe. Video was grainy, maybe I was seeing things. I can't believe he sits in his stance, Imagine Earl Strickland does not have a proper stance. It looks like he did a few things right, he made the ball, the juice grabbed well.
I may have witnessed the extended stroke and completion, his cue was almost to the side pocket. I have to watch it another 23 million times to make sure I witnessed this. Earl needs lessons, that was wrong in so many ways.
Sincerely:SS
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Patrick, I tried to send you good vibes for the excellent threads you have posted as of late, it would not allow me. Your info in this thread is very valuable for many, the others comments are also valuable.
Don't take my post above as knock, it's another look at the other side of the coin. I believe if you combine all the tools you come out with one heck of a pool player.
My approach to a new student would be Pendulum and go from there.
Sincerely:SS
Don't take my post above as knock, it's another look at the other side of the coin. I believe if you combine all the tools you come out with one heck of a pool player.
My approach to a new student would be Pendulum and go from there.
Sincerely:SS
I think in terms of the tip, after all isn't the purpose of a stroke the actions to deliver the pool tip to a target.
A push is an action of moving an object away from your body, a pull is an action of moving an action toward your body.
On the back stroke, you are moving the tip toward your body (pull) and on the forward stroke you are moving the tip away from your body (push)
There was a thread on this subject some time ago, which ended as most threads do around here. I suspect this thread will end the same way.
You are not connected at the tip though. You are connected at the grip and you are pushing the stick back.
To go on... you then pull the stick forward to push the cueball.
This is a dumb argument anyway.
Close......it is both push and pull at the same time based on grip.
You are pushing the weight in front of the grip while pulling the weight behind the grip when doing a forward stroke.
If the grip was at the very butt of the cue, then a forward motion would be totally push since there is no weight behind the grip hand to pull.
I personally dispose the of use of the word swing when discusing a pool stroke. It's is a stroke not a swing. And there is a difference.
There is nothing in common with a baseball swing and a pool stroke and the same goes for golf.
A baseball swing is always done from a standing position. Never does a baseball player have to swing over balls nor have to stretch out at times to swing.
It seems most forget pool is about having to shoot in a variety of shooting position requiring one to stroke in a variety of different positions.
Doing a shot one handed or with the bridge requires a differet stroke than when doing the opening break shot. Try a one handed shot to see. Do not use a rail to support the cue.
In 14.1, there have been a few shots I had to use a air bridge cause there was no room for my hand nor a bridge and a one handed shot was not possible. Air bridge is when your bridge hand is not on the table, but held up in the air as you stroke.
Shooting behind ones back requires different stroke. Yet this whole discussion is based on the shooting position of that of a break shot. Nice and easy to get into a shooting stance.
And here I sit pushing and pulling my arms.
If I go to the pool hall and start dogging it because I am thinking about pushing or pulling my strike arm, I am coming back here and everyone gets a cyber beating.
I may start slapping my bridge hand up and down like a seal.
If I go to the pool hall and start dogging it because I am thinking about pushing or pulling my strike arm, I am coming back here and everyone gets a cyber beating.
I may start slapping my bridge hand up and down like a seal.
You've lost me here, lol..........I am from Kentucky, though.:smile:
On the forward stroke, regardless of whether one drops the elbow or not, to me it's a pushing motion.........the hand is at the butt end of the stick, we pull it back using mainly the triceps (back swing) and we push it forward mainly using the biceps. When the elbow drops, we're flexing the shoulder too (forward flexion).......adding more push.
Am I missing something?
DTL
Sure.
Two things I would change in what you wrote: Think about the motion of a bicep curl. That's a pulling motion. You are pulling from the bottom --- up. That's pretty much the stroke motion of a rigid elbow stroke.
Once the elbow drops, it becomes a pushing motion, like you described.
For definition purposes, I'm referring to the forward motion only, which is the stroke that hits the ball.
Second: The stroke where a shoulder drop takes place after impact: If the elbow is rigid to impact, then that is a pulling motion. However, once the elbow drops, it changes to a pushing motion. I think that switch from pulling to pushing may constitute two separate strokes --- one prior to impact and one after. It's just a theory I have --- not proven.