I don't disagree with you that there are some basic broad standards that coincide with the human anatomy. However, I'm sure you will find that there is already a disparity between those who find that the elbow drop prior to impact is potentially detrimental and should not be considered a standard, and those like myself who feel it is completely natural and should be considered a standard along with the rigid elbow stroke.
Pool's "Best Practices"
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
I don't disagree with you that there are some basic broad standards that coincide with the human anatomy. However, I'm sure you will find that there is already a disparity between those who find that the elbow drop prior to impact is potentially detrimental and should not be considered a standard, and those like myself who feel it is completely natural and should be considered a standard along with the rigid elbow stroke.
What is the point of making a false assumption mocking post? All it shows is that you have no clue of what and why some things have been said on here. All you want to do is put people in "camps" and then pick sides. The main reason this forum is crap these days.
Nice, the instructors are the ones that defined the pendulum stroke, but they are wrong because it doesn't fit into your little narrow way of defining it.
Earls stroke in that video was a pendulum until contact. Then it became a J stroke. By the way, his entire final stroke was level, and he hit high on the cb with a lot of inside. You can clearly see it at the 6 second mark. (if someone wants to tell me how to capture the picture and not the video itself, I will post the picture of him at contact.)
By the way, thanks for the video. It proves that one can attain all the power needed without dropping the elbow before contact. And, also proves that the shot is not hit with low, but with high.
You are entitled to think you know what I have a clue about.
Camps,,,,that's pretty funny, the forum to crap, also funny.
I am glad I touch you in so many ways.
Have a great day
Sincerely: SS
PJ and others,
The following documents and link present what I think are many generally-recommended "best practices" concerning pre-shot routine, the stroke, and all other pool fundamentals:
stroke "best practices" document
pre-shot routine "best practices" resource page
fundamentals "best-practices" check-list
Enjoy,
Dave
The following documents and link present what I think are many generally-recommended "best practices" concerning pre-shot routine, the stroke, and all other pool fundamentals:
stroke "best practices" document
pre-shot routine "best practices" resource page
fundamentals "best-practices" check-list
Enjoy,
Dave
The curling action using the biceps is done in standing or sitting position......and it is a pulling up motion. We don't play pool like this. We're bent over nearly 90 degrees form the waist with our biceps pointing toward the floor (same motion, just now we're pushing a cue stick forward).
In my professional opinion, being very familiar with anatomy/physiology/kinesiology, the whole forward pool stroke is a pushing motion.
Respectfully,
DTL
Sorry, you're wrong. The rigid elbow stroke is definitely a pulling motion.
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And that is why the PBIA apropriately does not dictate what those standards should be for instructors to teach. I disagree with several of those points which I have made clear in multiple posts over various time frames on this web site.
Just for consideration:
My mind says that I first push my hand back away from my body & the ball... (the arm lengthens)
then, I pull my hand forward, closer to my body & the ball... (the arm shortens)
then, when my hand crosses the 'perpendicular' line, I push my hand away from my body & 'through' the ball. (the arm lengthens)
My subconscious set up to the ball is generally such that I make contact during the push away extension aspect.
As in most physical endeavors there is such a thing as timing. Timing is not something that is done consciously.
Please Note:
If one were using a full pendulum swing, they would most probably feel that they remain pulling the hand closer to their body.
I can't readily think of another physical activity where a ball is hit away from one's body by utilizing a pulling motion. Perhaps someone else can.
Also:
One should take into consideration how the pronation & supination of the forearm orients the wrist & hand relative to the elbow hinge mechanism when it relates to the perception of whether or not one is pulling or pushing.
Best 2 All,
Rick
My mind says that I first push my hand back away from my body & the ball... (the arm lengthens)
then, I pull my hand forward, closer to my body & the ball... (the arm shortens)
then, when my hand crosses the 'perpendicular' line, I push my hand away from my body & 'through' the ball. (the arm lengthens)
My subconscious set up to the ball is generally such that I make contact during the push away extension aspect.
As in most physical endeavors there is such a thing as timing. Timing is not something that is done consciously.
Please Note:
If one were using a full pendulum swing, they would most probably feel that they remain pulling the hand closer to their body.
I can't readily think of another physical activity where a ball is hit away from one's body by utilizing a pulling motion. Perhaps someone else can.
Also:
One should take into consideration how the pronation & supination of the forearm orients the wrist & hand relative to the elbow hinge mechanism when it relates to the perception of whether or not one is pulling or pushing.
Best 2 All,
Rick
OK replace the cue with a ball in front of your hand. When you make the ball move by swinging your arm it still a pulling motion that accomplishes it?
No, it is a push.
The orientation of the arm is making what should be a simple concept so difficult to sort out.
Perhaps another way to look at it is:
A forward stroke is a pulling motion if the majority of the weight of the cue is behind the grip.
If the majority of the cues weight is in front of the hand that is a push (at least to me)
This is why pool is so screwed up. People can't even figure out if they are pulling or pushing the cue, much less try to explain it in a manner anybody can understand.
It doesn't make a damn what you call it...pushing, pulling, shoving, slamming, etc.
Maybe "moving the cue toward the cue ball" or "bringing the cue backward" may be easier to understand.
It doesn't make a damn what you call it...pushing, pulling, shoving, slamming, etc.
Maybe "moving the cue toward the cue ball" or "bringing the cue backward" may be easier to understand.
Here's the picture at contact of Earls shot. (don't know why the cue looks segmented) You can clearly see he is hitting the top of the cb, and his elbow is still up.
View attachment 381285
View attachment 381285
If one does the pause play pause play of Earl's stroke I think most will see that the tip was initially rather low & when he takes the cue back for the delivery stroke that the tip certainly seems to go up & then on the follow through the tip certainly seems to go down.*
To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity.
That is one reason that these types of videos are rather often found to be inadmissible in courts of law.
For about a year before Hurricane Katrina, I was selling what was one of the most up to date & highest tech such systems. So, I know a bit about them.
Best to All,
Rick
* Edit: When I quoted this post for another reason I noticed an error made when origianlly typing out my thoughts as I sort of skip ahead in my thinking. I should have added here. 'before then clearing up in the extended follow through'.
To make unequivocal conclusions from these types of videos, especially concerning an object that is moving that fast on such a relatively low frame per second system & especially while trying to catch what is so often said to be only .001 of a second, is chocked full of invalidity.
That is one reason that these types of videos are rather often found to be inadmissible in courts of law.
For about a year before Hurricane Katrina, I was selling what was one of the most up to date & highest tech such systems. So, I know a bit about them.
Best to All,
Rick
* Edit: When I quoted this post for another reason I noticed an error made when origianlly typing out my thoughts as I sort of skip ahead in my thinking. I should have added here. 'before then clearing up in the extended follow through'.
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