Darren Appleton's post on FB about the pro division at SBE
- Thread starter jhanso18
- Start date
Darren,
Thanks for the concise post. Glad you didn't take my questions the wrong way.
Was a member of the UPA during it's hay day. They tried to organize the players the same way ABP did. Guaranteeing the payout money was a top priority. So was getting additional added money for events. Once the first tournament failed to pay all the prize money, the group kind of faded away. My only suggestion was to raise the membership fee from $100 to $1000. Take the additional money and buy health care for the players from a managed care group. Found out our "pro" guys were way too short sighted to see the benefits of that.
Was also a member of the MPBA. One of the concepts was having to qualify to play on the tour rather than just be able to pay the entry fee. If I remember correctly, someone ran away with the money.
American pro pool has nearly always been in a state of flux. Sorry to say, it needs a dictator whether the players like it or not. Some ONE has to make and enforce the rules.
Dynamite, you da man!
Lyn
Thanks for the concise post. Glad you didn't take my questions the wrong way.
Was a member of the UPA during it's hay day. They tried to organize the players the same way ABP did. Guaranteeing the payout money was a top priority. So was getting additional added money for events. Once the first tournament failed to pay all the prize money, the group kind of faded away. My only suggestion was to raise the membership fee from $100 to $1000. Take the additional money and buy health care for the players from a managed care group. Found out our "pro" guys were way too short sighted to see the benefits of that.
Was also a member of the MPBA. One of the concepts was having to qualify to play on the tour rather than just be able to pay the entry fee. If I remember correctly, someone ran away with the money.
American pro pool has nearly always been in a state of flux. Sorry to say, it needs a dictator whether the players like it or not. Some ONE has to make and enforce the rules.
Dynamite, you da man!
Lyn
thanks for finding this.
i certainly didnt say anything to the contrary. My memory is that the drop did not occur the same year the ABP came into existence but im older than water and my memory is not serving me as well these days. In fact i think im confusing the ABP with the previous thing. At any rate -JA is NOT the man to head any organization -for sure. Not sure who is.
Last edited:
Everything DA posted is true.
If I still lived up north I would attend the SBE every year. I attended almost every one since they started until my last one in 2011. It's no secret Allen makes a lot of money....he is entitled to that. From the amateur side he could be paying more out. But he does a lot of work and deserves to make some cash.
As far as DA's post..........I feel it is spot on. And his post is not emotional or angry. I feel he is simply giving his opinion in 'declarative' sentence structure. A pro pool player's life is a hard nut to crack and one really can't argue that this VF event has gone somewhat backwards in regard to the Pro Event in the measurables---> money, quantity and quality of players, sanctioning, etc.
Oh and for me for all those years I went and played---> indeed it is 4-5 days of pool heaven........make no mistake about that.
Just my opinion.
If I still lived up north I would attend the SBE every year. I attended almost every one since they started until my last one in 2011. It's no secret Allen makes a lot of money....he is entitled to that. From the amateur side he could be paying more out. But he does a lot of work and deserves to make some cash.
As far as DA's post..........I feel it is spot on. And his post is not emotional or angry. I feel he is simply giving his opinion in 'declarative' sentence structure. A pro pool player's life is a hard nut to crack and one really can't argue that this VF event has gone somewhat backwards in regard to the Pro Event in the measurables---> money, quantity and quality of players, sanctioning, etc.
Oh and for me for all those years I went and played---> indeed it is 4-5 days of pool heaven........make no mistake about that.
Just my opinion.
64 players actually..
The whole event pro event/open/ladies event etc etc all bad value for money..
I not a sore loser i actually didn't care about losing at the weekend. I didn't have any motivation to play but i went for sponsorship reasons and i live around the corner. if i at to fly there i wouldn't be there thats for sure.. Especially playing for peanuts.
But i did make money but thats not my point.. But you obviously don't get it so best leave it to the experts.
Darren
There is one thing I do agree with you though and that's ten ball should be call pocket.
Maybe it's just me but pro pool can be boring to watch. Just look where the crowd is...it tends to be around action at such events and not in the pro arena. In the pro arena it's quiet and you can't talk and you don't see the players' personalities as much. On an action table the spot makes every match at least somewhat fair, we see the players' real personalities, it's loud and exciting. If we're honest I think we can admit most of pro pool is boring and that's why it's hard for it to succeed.
Can you imagine how boring an NBA game would be if you had to be quiet so the players could focus, there was no music or atmosphere, and the only entertainment was watching the players play a respectful game while showing no emotion?
Its good though Darren that you can keep your cool and respond/communicate to this thread.
I know pool players to be some of the most colorful people out there, can you imagine an event where we were allowed to chant and be fans? not to distract the players, but to have fun and cheer the game. people would show up for the party alone, they wouldn't even be people who play. 
if I had the money, knowledge and connections I would try, but im poor, dumb and no friends:frown::frown::frown::frown:
I play a money league once a week, some days the atmosphere is so much fun cheering my teamates. pool could be fun to watch when you're allowed to be emotionally invested. did you see what jayson shaw did to mika immonen at turning stone, that game should have had a cheering section and a standing ovation for shaw, instead mika gave up the last game all pissed off and the three people watching got up slowly and quietly wondering why did I even show up. Sad! for all the old farts who reminisce about the quiet and tense atmosphere of a money match, those still happen when theres bets going around, its just that when you go to bed a 8pm and get up at 4:30am to eat your warm cereal you;re going to miss some action. adapt or die, survival of the fittest, it's Darwinism not traditionalism. :wink:
in case you've been hibernating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1yV8PEY6s
if I had the money, knowledge and connections I would try, but im poor, dumb and no friends:frown::frown::frown::frown:I play a money league once a week, some days the atmosphere is so much fun cheering my teamates. pool could be fun to watch when you're allowed to be emotionally invested. did you see what jayson shaw did to mika immonen at turning stone, that game should have had a cheering section and a standing ovation for shaw, instead mika gave up the last game all pissed off and the three people watching got up slowly and quietly wondering why did I even show up. Sad! for all the old farts who reminisce about the quiet and tense atmosphere of a money match, those still happen when theres bets going around, its just that when you go to bed a 8pm and get up at 4:30am to eat your warm cereal you;re going to miss some action. adapt or die, survival of the fittest, it's Darwinism not traditionalism. :wink:
in case you've been hibernating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1yV8PEY6s
Last edited:
I agree Darren, the majority of Pro's stay away from the AZB gunfire.
Whether I agree with your opinions or not, you get major respect for speaking out.
The biggest problem I had with SBE this year, was the BS with the non-existing stream.
Plus the fact that Hopkins wanted 10k to allow a free stream. That is just an insult to all potential viewers.
I know pool players to be some of the most colorful people out there, can you imagine an event where we were allowed to chant and be fans? not to distract the players, but to have fun and cheer the game. people would show up for the party alone, they wouldn't even be people who play.
I play a money league once a week, some days the atmosphere is so much fun cheering my teamates. pool could be fun to watch when you're allowed to be emotionally invested. did you see what jayson shaw did to mika immonen at turning stone, that game should have had a cheering section and a standing ovation for shaw, instead mika gave up the last game all pissed off and the three people watching got up slowly and quietly wondering why did I even show up. Sad! for all the old farts who reminisce about the quiet and tense atmosphere of a money match, those still happen when theres bets going around, its just that when you go to bed a 8pm and get up at 4:30am to eat your warm cereal you;re going to miss some action. adapt or die, survival of the fittest, it's Darwinism not traditionalism. :wink:
in case you've been hibernating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY1yV8PEY6s
I have one question........... Who the hell eats warm cereal?
I appreciate a number of your points Darren, but this field is stronger than you allow. I compare it here to that of the recent Treviso (Eurotour) event. Below is an ordered list of the top 100 or so players in the world by Fargo Rating. [I know many won't have heard of this, It is an ELO-type approach, and please assume here it is far and away the best apples-to-apples comparison of poolplayers at all levels everywhere]
Red players played in Valley Forge. Blue players played in Treviso. This list has 24 Treviso players and 22 Valley Forge players. Treviso had over 200 players compared to 64 in Valley Forge. But I think it is safe to assume that anybody who had a chance to win either tournament is on this list.
De Luna
Wu
Van Boening
Feijen
Li Wen
Faraon
Chua
Sanchez Ruiz
Cheng
Biado
Chang
Orcollo
Ko
GOMEZ
Souquet
Ignacio
Ko
Haya
Quan
Bustamante
REYES
YANG
Corteza
Van Den Berg
Dechaine
Boyes
Shaw
Burford
Stojanovic
Chang
YANG
Appleton
Pagulayan
Kiamco
Ekonomopoulos
Li
Alcano
Liu
Alcaide
Koshovyi
Drago
Gray
Melling
Gabica
Szewczyk
Deuel
Hohmann
Majid
Roberts
Cosanzio
Morra
Woodward
Mazon
Fu
Das
Strickland
Ouschan Jr
Skowerski
Nevel Jr
Dominguez
Martinez Chavez
Cheng
Klatt
O'Neal
Morris
OI
Bergman
Archer
Kazakis
Kudlik
Bustamante
Smith
Hall
Uchigaki
Geronimo
Kuribayashi
Immonen
Chamat
He
Gallego
HUNDAL
Diaz-Pizarro
KIELAR
ORTMANN
Frost
PEACH
Fortunski
Hatch
Ellerman
Sossei
Ashcraft
Boon
Knoll
Chiang
Sniegocki
Jungo
Chinakhov
Bowman
Haar
Jones
Robles Jr
Pinegar
Edey
Beckley
Malai
Hickerson
Moore
Exposito
I'm pretty sure it was $3,000 added to the 10 ball. Not big money, and I'm not saying it shouldn't be more, but it is SOME money added.
Gideon
Was this supposed to be a rhetorical question
?Every time the "pros" try to organize their own tour and events, things go horribly wrong. Next, would you please tell me who is a pro and how does one become one? According to CSI, there are no pros. only grand master players. Calling them that allows them to play in an amateur event. Their participation is limited but they are allowed to play.
Lyn
I remember when the Reno Open was in full bloom. One year we got 374 entrants and at $100 working with a 20K added money purse. The total purse was very close to 60K. Who complained, the pros did. They felt there were too many players. Well, that was then and this is now. So it's really hard to fathom the commentary about purses and who and who can't play in open events.
Yes the euro tour level really dropped also .. But still lot of players that don't play any world evens that play good.. But if 200 players obviously lot of amateurs but most of them play decent.. But it's not called a professional event . It's a euro tour that anyone can join..
Sbe the field from last 32 pretty good... But years gone by the field was lot stronger .. But that's not my concern it's lost lot of top players and good players because no value like before.. There was no added money and low payout so no traveling players from abroad except one or two maybe.
Then they conflict events so got to forfeit other tournaments which could be solved easily.
And they wanted 10k for someone to stream it that's just crazy imo..
Other things really niggle me not playing 10ball rules cheap rack. Crowd not allows to make noise. Bad format . Bad layout venue. And some of the field dressing unprofessional .and play cueball foul only .
It's lost the prestige it once had.. Unless big changes next year it will be even smaller event.imo
i just want to see the event it once was...
But the way it is now they should rename it a open. Not professional players championship. And I'm sure vip guest paid to watch.
Darren
Sbe the field from last 32 pretty good... But years gone by the field was lot stronger .. But that's not my concern it's lost lot of top players and good players because no value like before.. There was no added money and low payout so no traveling players from abroad except one or two maybe.
Then they conflict events so got to forfeit other tournaments which could be solved easily.
And they wanted 10k for someone to stream it that's just crazy imo..
Other things really niggle me not playing 10ball rules cheap rack. Crowd not allows to make noise. Bad format . Bad layout venue. And some of the field dressing unprofessional .and play cueball foul only .
It's lost the prestige it once had.. Unless big changes next year it will be even smaller event.imo
i just want to see the event it once was...
But the way it is now they should rename it a open. Not professional players championship. And I'm sure vip guest paid to watch.
Darren
I just want to say thanks to Darren and all the pro's that came out to shoot. I always enjoyed going to the expo to see the top players compete. I also think that trying to crame 3 different tournaments into that playing arena took away from the over "professional feel" of the tournament.
Thanks again Darren for playing in the event and you guys brought a lot of people out to the expo.
There's alot of people out there that don't go just to see loud mouths trying to get a game and flipping quarters. Id rather watch the top players.
Thanks again Darren for playing in the event and you guys brought a lot of people out to the expo.
There's alot of people out there that don't go just to see loud mouths trying to get a game and flipping quarters. Id rather watch the top players.