WRISTS - The "hidden power catalyst" of a great stroke or "just along for the ride"?

[CJ Wiley]

What they say is true "you can't teach old dogs new tricks"

I don't know what you mean about "celebrity knowledge", but I know what works for me. There are NO celebrities in pool that I'm aware of...there are just pool players...some are better than others. I don't need any celebrities to follow...they don't awe me. Unless you are continually running packages, I'm not overly impressed with you, no matter who you are.

I learn something new every time I play, but I have an open mind and am willing to try things. I use what works for me and store the other stuff in my brain if I think it may become useful at some later time. If I think something is complete BS after trying it for a while, I go on to something else.

I am 61 years old, have quit pool for many years on multiple occasions, am almost blind, and have lost feeling in my right (shooting) arm, but I know how to make a ball or two on occasion. I only play a few hours each Sunday, but I can still hang with the "big dogs" sometimes.

Yesterday I played a 10-ball race to 7 with the number one rated player in the state of Hawaii (he is rated whatever the highest rating is in Hawaiian Brian's tournaments - he was rated AAA or AAAA just a couple weeks ago). He just got back this last weekend from Vegas where he placed 17th in the 9-ball singles in the national APA tournament.

I can't even remember the last time I played 10-ball (over a couple decades) and when he asked to play I chose 10-ball to make it a bit tougher than 9-ball, which is what I always bang around at. He usually spots everyone and he had just finished a set where he was spotting a guy the last two and he won. I told him I don't believe in spots and had rather play heads up.

I actually got into an early lead of 3-0 and then I got up to 6 before he got to 5. He eventually won 7-6, but I was glad to keep it somewhat even with a guy who plays almost every day, is rated #1, and who is more than 30 years younger than me.

When I play, I know what to do, and have done it thousands of times before...it is a matter of just keeping in focus and DOING IT (way easier said than done). The older you get, the harder it is to focus I think.

What CJ is saying is something I learned before CJ ever started playing pool and I happen to understand and agree with him. If it doesn't resonate with you, then keep trying things until you find something that works.

I don't come here to argue things, debate things, or to say "my way works and yours doesn't". I just tell people what I think and what works for me.

Aloha.

That's right, Hawaiian Brian knows this stuff because we traveled with the same people through the years. This knowledge is older than I am, just no one has ever bothered to try to pass it on to the general public.

Some of you may see why. LoL -

What they say is true "you can't teach old dogs new tricks," and such is life. Just like the old Zen Master said, to learn new information a person must first we willing to "empty their cup" (and unlearn what you're learned).

 

[Neil]

It's a huge advantage if you want to move the cue ball with ease on shots your opponent struggles with (this also boosts your confidence and deflates his).

Notice, none of the ones that can't relate to what I'm talking about play competitively (is this merely a coincidence?). I can give many good shortstops incredible handicaps because of how I contact the cue ball.....think about it, isn't that the entire game, how would I be able to do this if I were doing it "like everyone else"?

I'm willing to share the secret and already am, for those that are willing to learn. There's more, however, it's challenging to explain without visual assistance.....when I get some time I may put together a You Tube video, although it's tough now with my business obligations, training, and lesson schedule.

Champion players can do {seemingly} amazing things with the cue ball when it comes to precision, speed and accuracy because of their stroke. It's not about power, it's about technique, after all you're hitting a 6 ounce ball with a 19+ ounce cue.

So, anyone that doesn't understand what you aren't a good enough instructor to explain is someone that doesn't play pool competitively and is unwilling to learn. Guess in your world it's better to insult than explain properly.

Easier to just throw a bunch of mumbo jumbo out there to try and look impessive than to simply say that it is high speed with little force.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

I thought Danny D. coined it.

Danny D.'s line is funnier.

"If you only knew what you didn't know, you wouldn't not know it."

 

[DTL]

....................

 

[jburkm002]

I know there is software that can be used on this site to show table layouts. Maybe that could be used to demonstrate why this and that is effective. Set up a shot and see who can and can't do it their way.

 

[CJ Wiley]

it's none of my business what others choose to learn from me

So, anyone that doesn't understand what you aren't a good enough instructor to explain is someone that doesn't play pool competitively and is unwilling to learn. Guess in your world it's better to insult than explain properly.

Easier to just throw a bunch of mumbo jumbo out there to try and look impessive than to simply say that it is high speed with little force.

I learn a lot from you, it's none of my business what others choose to learn from me.

 

[AtLarge]

........if you look at post #1 from Oct 2012, you'll see that this was something new for him, "a missing part to my personal puzzle". Perhaps he could have said, that without it he may not have made the finals of so many local Dallas-Fort Worth weekly handicapped tournaments these past few years. ...

No, I don't think this was new to CJ in late 2012. He was just rediscovering its importance to his personal technique. He had the tennis grip and the pre-cocked wrist many years ago.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the "hidden power catalyst" of the wrist in the pool stroke is done with the release

I think we are on the same page.

There are a number of topics that are incendiary here on AZB because of different styles of play that some just seem to be totally unfamiliar.

One's man's "pearl of great worth" is seen as junk to another man.

What's the popular saying on here? They don't know what they don't know.

Best,
Rick

Remember, the "hidden power catalyst" of the wrist in the pool stroke is done with the release of pressure. The wrist doesn't un-cock in the way it does in golf and tennis because or the bridge hand......although it does create the same effect.

 

[DTL]

....................

 

[Neil]

........ it's none of my business what others choose to learn from me.

]

That's one heck of an attitude to take for any instructor. But it certainly explains why you choose to be vague, don't care how much you contradict yourself, choose to insult rather than help, and also makes you nothing more than a salesman, not an instructor.

 

[CJ Wiley]

The elbow and cue are closer, this means he uncocked his wrist

Yes, he has always pre-cocked his wrist (radial deviation).........totally in the OPPOSITE direction as the "hammer" position (ulnar deviation).


View attachment 383691

Here's a recent vid of some mighty fine shooting. Do you see any "hammer" uncocking of his wrist?.......NO. It pretty much stays the same all the way through. I've never seen his wrist in this uncocked "hammer" position like the pictures he's posted demonstrating it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMB-Q-KbwX0

So you think his cue and elbow maintained that position throughout the stroke?

The elbow and cue are closer, this means he uncocked his wrist like dropping a hammer. This doesn't take much effort, it's more about a specific motion that produces incredible energy when done properly (like Francisco demonstrates, we've played on many occasions, starting with the LA OPEN hosted by Jay Helphert) - ask Jay sometime about that match and how many people watched it LIVE at the Burbank Hilton.

 

[DTL]

...................

 

[CJ Wiley]

I encourage everyone (including yourself) to hold on very tightly

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ Wiley View Post
........ it's none of my business what others choose to learn from me.

]

That's one heck of an attitude to take for any instructor. But it certainly explains why you choose to be vague, don't care how much you contradict yourself, choose to insult rather than help, and also makes you nothing more than a salesman, not an instructor.

What other people choose in life is not my business, and I encourage pool players (including yourself) to hold on very tightly to their own opinions, beliefs and attitudes....until they're willing to enjoy the game that makes them happy and content.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This may not be something that works for you

No, of couse not. Like I said, it's only like this due to the exaggerated follow through. Post a pic of him at contact and his wrist will not be in this position. Neither is yours at any point in your stroke........watch the vid I linked.

Yes, it moves through impact and into the follow through with this motion. I'm very aware of my own stroke, more so than anyone else alive I might add.

This may not be something that works for you, no harm, no foul.....just simply move on.

I can get someone from a beginner's stroke to advanced in 3 weeks teaching this technique using a hammer, a sword and one other "tool".....it's amazing to see the results and the fun they can start having {almost immediately} playing this game called "pool".

'The Game is our Teacher'

 

[ENGLISH!]

What other people choose in life is not my business, and I encourage pool players (including yourself) to hold on very tightly to their own opinions, beliefs and attitudes....until they're willing to enjoy the game that makes them happy and content.

AWESOME!

Some will never understand.

All the Best to You... & All,
Rick

 

[Neil]

AWESOME!

Some will never understand.

All the Best to You... & All,
Rick

LOL. If you actually believed a word of that, you wouldn't post like you do against instructors, CTE, and the pendulum stroke.

Can we give a loud BAAAA BAAAAAA BAAAAAAA. :wink:

 

[ENGLISH!]

LOL. If you actually believed a word of that, you wouldn't post like you do against instructors, CTE, and the pendulum stroke.

Can we give a loud BAAAA BAAAAAA BAAAAAAA. :wink:

More of your slant distortions & mischaracterizations.

You've become nothing but one of the biggest trolls on AZB.

I really feel sorry for you.

What ever happened to your post where you said that you were 'finished' with me & I could post whatever I wanted to post? I knew it was too good to be true.

You're so negatively obsessed with CJ that you have to 'attack' anyone that agrees with him or has anything good to say about him.

Sad... very very sad.

You, that is.

 

[Neil]

More of your slant distortions & mischaracterizations.

You've become nothing but one of the biggest trolls on AZB.

I really feel sorry for you.

What ever happened to your post where you said that you were 'finished' with me & I could post whatever I wanted to post? I knew it was too good to be true.

You're so negatively obsessed with CJ that you have to 'attack' anyone that agrees with him or has anything good to say about him.

Sad... very very sad.

You, that is.

So much for you agreeing with that post you agreed to. Guess you didn't understand it at all. LOL. :wink:

 

[Blaine B.]

I am just a nobody, but what CJ is saying makes sense in my head. I've watched a lot of pool videos lately and I learn the most so far from Jimmy Reid and CJ. I'm self taught, these two guys games most closely resemble mine, just executed much better. Thanks CJ!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Dead stroke:
...if you actually uncocked your wrist down, like a downwards swing of a hammer, at the moment of impact, when your forearm is approximately perpendicular to the cue, that motion would slow the forward velocity of the cue

Of course this is true (as anyone with any common sense knows), and was pointed out when the "hammer stroke" silliness was first brought up here long ago. Maybe we're finally getting tired of the dumbing down of AzB...?

pj
chgo