Consistency

[BasementDweller]

It's been a while since I checked in on this sub-forum.

I'm reminded of why now.

M.G. presented a very interesting idea that should be worth considering to anybody that actually has an open mind about the game but instead it gets immediately dismissed by the AZ Instructor Choir. Not sure why, it must not be in the Instructor Bible I guess.

I actually like the idea and think it may have some merit but of course I'm not an instructor.

Carry on...

 

[Neil]

It's been a while since I checked in on this sub-forum.

I'm reminded of why now.

M.G. presented a very interesting idea that should be worth considering to anybody that actually has an open mind about the game but instead it gets immediately dismissed by the AZ Instructor Choir. Not sure why, it must not be in the Instructor Bible I guess.

I actually like the idea and think it may have some merit but of course I'm not an instructor.

Carry on...

It gets dismissed by real instructors because it is nothing more than a band-aid. Instructors should be working on the problem, not just sticking band-aids here and there.

Guarantee you that if Scott had not posted first, Fran and Rick would have said the same thing he did. But, the children have to have their little cliques over actually helping people on here. It is what it is.

 

[FranCrimi]

It gets dismissed by real instructors because it is nothing more than a band-aid. Instructors should be working on the problem, not just sticking band-aids here and there.

Guarantee you that if Scott had not posted first, Fran and Rick would have said the same thing he did. But, the children have to have their little cliques over actually helping people on here. It is what it is.

HOW DARE YOU! There is something seriously wrong with you. I have always posted what I felt. I fly solo here and I always will.

Now stop attacking me. Seriously. Stop. You're starting to make me angry.

 

[Neil]

HOW DARE YOU! There is something seriously wrong with you. I have always posted what I felt. I fly solo here and I always will.

Now stop attacking me. Seriously. Stop. You're starting to make me angry.

Boo Hoo. Get a grip. No one is attacking you. It's you and Rick doing the attacking. Go ahead and post what ever nonsense you want to. I'm not falling for your games.

 

[FranCrimi]

Boo Hoo. Get a grip. No one is attacking you. It's you and Rick doing the attacking. Go ahead and post what ever nonsense you want to. I'm not falling for your games.

What games would those be, Neil?

How many months were you banned for your behavior here? How long have you been back from your time out? A week or two?

You're pathetic.

 

[Neil]

What games would those be, Neil?

How many months were you banned for your behavior here? How long have you been back from your time out? A week or two?

You're pathetic.

The same amount of time Rick was, and for the same reason. But I don't see you mocking him for it. And you should be banned for your comment, which is against the rules. And it's at least twice now in just this thread that you have called me names.

It's no secret that you don't like Scott or myself. That doesn't give you free reign to be taking cheap shots at us whenever you can. And to do it in the instructor forum, where people go to get honest answers, I find disgusting. It only cheapens the forum, and drives others away.

This all started when Rick decided to answer a statement in the instructor forum, and when his uniformed statement was called out by Scott, Rick decided to once again take a cheap shot at Scott. Without thinking, by being lazy, which is exactly why you said you agreed with Rick, you also decided to take a cheap shot at Scott and said what no self-respecting instructor would ever say. Then, when I called you on your statement, you followed with cheap shot to me. All because you got lazy and didn't even to really bother to think about what you were saying.

You are supposed to be a good instructor, then act professional about it and think before you type, and quit taking cheap shots at other instructors.
That alone can get you banned from the circle of instructors. Personally, I don't care if you like Scott and myself or not. After your postings to me, don't care much for you either. That doesn't give you license to act unprofessional and agree with silly answers and start with the put-downs. No one wants to read this crap, so stop doing it , please.

And with that, I'm done with this. If you feel the need to call me more names, I won't be responding to you.

 

[FranCrimi]

The same amount of time Rick was, and for the same reason. But I don't see you mocking him for it. And you should be banned for your comment, which is against the rules. And it's at least twice now in just this thread that you have called me names.

It's no secret that you don't like Scott or myself. That doesn't give you free reign to be taking cheap shots at us whenever you can. And to do it in the instructor forum, where people go to get honest answers, I find disgusting. It only cheapens the forum, and drives others away.

This all started when Rick decided to answer a statement in the instructor forum, and when his uniformed statement was called out by Scott, Rick decided to once again take a cheap shot at Scott. Without thinking, by being lazy, which is exactly why you said you agreed with Rick, you also decided to take a cheap shot at Scott and said what no self-respecting instructor would ever say. Then, when I called you on your statement, you followed with cheap shot to me. All because you got lazy and didn't even to really bother to think about what you were saying.

You are supposed to be a good instructor, then act professional about it and think before you type, and quit taking cheap shots at other instructors.
That alone can get you banned from the circle of instructors. Personally, I don't care if you like Scott and myself or not. After your postings to me, don't care much for you either. That doesn't give you license to act unprofessional and agree with silly answers and start with the put-downs. No one wants to read this crap, so stop doing it , please.

And with that, I'm done with this. If you feel the need to call me more names, I won't be responding to you.

You've been wrong about me every time that you've attacked me, Neil, and I've proven it every single time. I strongly suggest that you learn how to control your nasty temper, especially considering that you've only just been allowed to post again.

 

[BasementDweller]

[snipped all the unnecessary pot shots aimed at Fran]

That alone can get you banned from the circle of instructors

[and all the rest]

At least we now know there's an official "circle of instructors" that one can get banned from.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

It's been a while since I checked in on this sub-forum.

I'm reminded of why now.

M.G. presented a very interesting idea that should be worth considering to anybody that actually has an open mind about the game but instead it gets immediately dismissed by the AZ Instructor Choir. Not sure why, it must not be in the Instructor Bible I guess.

I actually like the idea and think it may have some merit but of course I'm not an instructor.

Carry on...

I agree, this is total BS on this forum, and this thread is a classic case of where it went to when it turned into a lesson advertising forum.. Not in the "Instructor Bible" Lol Exactly.

Funny, because I'm going through a "new cue phenomenon" right now. It started a couple days ago when I felt like playing around with the slip stroke. My linen grip felt a bit too sticky because I recently rubbed it with beeswax to get a little more gription in the thing, so I grabbed my wife's nearly unused cue and was off to the races. I threw the balls out and the cue felt just great in my hands. I was slipping real nice, and coming through on the CB like it wasn't even there.

After about an hour of this I started getting lazy and sloppy, so I decided to quit the slip stroking session and went back to using my own cue. I couldn't make a ball. The cue just felt dead, and I had no clue where the CB was gonna end up, shot after shot. Of course, this happens to players like me all the time, lights out one minute, in the dungeon the next. But this time I went back to my wife's cue and I was knocking them in from everywhere, and real solid CB control. Better draw, better follow, better speed control... just an all around better stoke.

Well, it's been a couple days and I'm still shooting great with her cheap-ass cue. Maybe it's the balance (mine is very weight-forward), maybe it's the thicker shaft (I took mine down to 12.5mm), maybe it's just the tip (I use an UltraSkin soft, her's is I think a LePro, prolly medium by the feel), maybe it's the sound (hers rings a bit whereas mine is muffled sounding). Hell, maybe it's just the way it looks. I don't know, but I feel very connected to it somehow, and I just came upstairs and told her I'm stealing her cue. She said, "That's nice."

This may last another day, or maybe a week, or maybe it will be all over when I go back down to the table later. But I did learn a lot of new things that have been eluding me for a long time. Feeling that connected to the cue, I felt more connected to the entire shot. I started to get the CB to places in ways I never was able to before. I could feel when I hit the ball solid as opposed to quitting on my stroke, and I could see the results, with the CB either dying on me after what I felt was a bad hit, to easily going three rails with an easy stroke and a pure hit and just a bit of top. This feedback teaches you a lot, and I believe this is how your brian gets programmed, by actually feeling the difference in the hit and directly seeing the results.

Is feel absent from my own cue? Of course not, but I'm so used to that cue by now that I think I may be numb to the sensation of a good hit vs. a not so good hit. By using a cue with a completely different feel, it just grabs my attention. I can get a sense of what feels right and what feels wrong again, and by doing so, make some progress that will hopefully be long lasting.

Or maybe her cue is just magic.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

... I can see how musicians would do the same just to keep sharp (pardon the pun).

You bet we do! I can't think of anything that can ignite a spark of creativity better than getting your hands on a different axe for awhile. As a repairman, I had the pleasure and the luxury of being able to try thousands of different fiddles, guitars, mandolins, etc. over the years. Some of them just speak out to you in mysterious ways.

I've tuned up violins to see how they sound and play when I'm done fixing them, and have experienced the shock of being able to play things I never even learned how to play. One fiddle had me playing the beginning of "Orange Blossom Special", and I never played a bluegrass tune in my life before that. Ironically, it was a very expensive Italian violin, the last thing you'd expect to heard bluegrass coming out of. It just came out, almost against my will.

I've owned dozens of guitars that instantly jumped my playing by several levels, and this improvement transferred onto everything I played thereafter. There was a time I got very sick for many months and had to sell all my precious old Martin guitars to feed the wife and kids. I was devastated to be without a guitar, but a few weeks later I was driving by a yard sale and saw a guitar sitting there for sale. I stopped and saw it was a cheapo plywood student guitar with crappy nylon strings on it. But it was $5, and that was exactly how much cash I had in my pocket, so I bought it.

I took it home and did my best to adjust it for a better tone, but it was just a dog and a half. Still, it was MY guitar, and it was too cheap to save the day when the power company came to shut the electric off, so we were stuck with each other. Over the next several months, my playing style actually began to transform in a way that made the best use of its limited virtues. I developed a more percussive style, pulling and snapping the strings to get some sort of sound out of them. To this day, this technique is still the chief hallmark of my own distinctive playing style, and I owe it all to that crappy POS guitar that opened my ears to a whole new way of expressing myself.

I don't know how this relates to cues and pool, but I just felt like telling the story. Seems more appropriate than all the hate-filled posts coming from certain sad and sorry members here.

 

[Neil]

You bet we do! I can't think of anything that can ignite a spark of creativity better than getting your hands on a different axe for awhile. As a repairman, I had the pleasure and the luxury of being able to try thousands of different fiddles, guitars, mandolins, etc. over the years. Some of them just speak out to you in mysterious ways.

I've tuned up violins to see how they sound and play when I'm done fixing them, and have experienced the shock of being able to play things I never even learned how to play. One fiddle had me playing the beginning of "Orange Blossom Special", and I never played a bluegrass tune in my life before that. Ironically, it was a very expensive Italian violin, the last thing you'd expect to heard bluegrass coming out of. It just came out, almost against my will.

I've owned dozens of guitars that instantly jumped my playing by several levels, and this improvement transferred onto everything I played thereafter. There was a time I got very sick for many months and had to sell all my precious old Martin guitars to feed the wife and kids. I was devastated to be without a guitar, but a few weeks later I was driving by a yard sale and saw a guitar sitting there for sale. I stopped and saw it was a cheapo plywood student guitar with crappy nylon strings on it. But it was $5, and that was exactly how much cash I had in my pocket, so I bought it.

I took it home and did my best to adjust it for a better tone, but it was just a dog and a half. Still, it was MY guitar, and it was too cheap to save the day when the power company came to shut the electric off, so we were stuck with each other. Over the next several months, my playing style actually began to transform in a way that made the best use of its limited virtues. I developed a more percussive style, pulling and snapping the strings to get some sort of sound out of them. To this day, this technique is still the chief hallmark of my own distinctive playing style, and I owe it all to that crappy POS guitar that opened my ears to a whole new way of expressing myself.

I don't know how this relates to cues and pool, but I just felt like telling the story. Seems more appropriate than all the hate-filled posts coming from certain sad and sorry members here.

Only hate I see is from the side you seem to be defending. But for me, I have a lot of disgust at the total B.S. in the this forum. Guess there isn't anywhere left on here that people asking serious questions won't get fed a bunch of b.s. by people that don't have a clue what they are talking about. Yes, it is real sad.

p.s.- don't forget to visit the For Sale Forum, you can buy yourself a better game.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

Only hate I see is from the side you seem to be defending. But for me, I have a lot of disgust at the total B.S. in the this forum. Guess there isn't anywhere left on here that people asking serious questions won't get fed a bunch of b.s. by people that don't have a clue what they are talking about. Yes, it is real sad.

p.s.- don't forget to visit the For Sale Forum, you can buy yourself a better game.

Gee, I went back and read both of my posts here word for word, and I can't see a single one of them that was in defense of anyone. You must have the wrong guy.

If you don't like the forum, don't post on it. I won't mind at all. Are you even an instructor, or just another know-it-all B player?

p.s.- Ginkgo biloba. It may help you remember who you are actually trying to respond to before you start to post.

 

[FranCrimi]

You bet we do! I can't think of anything that can ignite a spark of creativity better than getting your hands on a different axe for awhile. As a repairman, I had the pleasure and the luxury of being able to try thousands of different fiddles, guitars, mandolins, etc. over the years. Some of them just speak out to you in mysterious ways.

I've tuned up violins to see how they sound and play when I'm done fixing them, and have experienced the shock of being able to play things I never even learned how to play. One fiddle had me playing the beginning of "Orange Blossom Special", and I never played a bluegrass tune in my life before that. Ironically, it was a very expensive Italian violin, the last thing you'd expect to heard bluegrass coming out of. It just came out, almost against my will.

I've owned dozens of guitars that instantly jumped my playing by several levels, and this improvement transferred onto everything I played thereafter. There was a time I got very sick for many months and had to sell all my precious old Martin guitars to feed the wife and kids. I was devastated to be without a guitar, but a few weeks later I was driving by a yard sale and saw a guitar sitting there for sale. I stopped and saw it was a cheapo plywood student guitar with crappy nylon strings on it. But it was $5, and that was exactly how much cash I had in my pocket, so I bought it.

I took it home and did my best to adjust it for a better tone, but it was just a dog and a half. Still, it was MY guitar, and it was too cheap to save the day when the power company came to shut the electric off, so we were stuck with each other. Over the next several months, my playing style actually began to transform in a way that made the best use of its limited virtues. I developed a more percussive style, pulling and snapping the strings to get some sort of sound out of them. To this day, this technique is still the chief hallmark of my own distinctive playing style, and I owe it all to that crappy POS guitar that opened my ears to a whole new way of expressing myself.

I don't know how this relates to cues and pool, but I just felt like telling the story. Seems more appropriate than all the hate-filled posts coming from certain sad and sorry members here.

WOW! What a story!

I have one too, although not as intense as yours. I was an accordion player for 9 years but always wanted to play the piano. When I finally got one for my 16th birthday, my left hand, which had done nothing but push buttons for all those years, lagged significantly behind my right hand.

I did scales and drills to strengthen my left hand. It improved some, but never really caught up to the agility of my right hand.

After a few months exclusively on the piano, I picked up the accordion, and BAM, my left hand was so much stronger, that it flew over the buttons. The result was a crisper sound. I was playing more efficiently than ever before, and with significantly less fatigue.

No one ever said to me that I should strengthen my left hand back when I was taking accordion lessons.

Sometimes the effect of switching equipment strengthens something you didn't realize needed strengthening. I can see this happening with pool, too. --- For example: switching between back and front-weighted cues. With a back-weighted cue, you may find shot-making easier, but could have some issues with finessing shots. With a front-weighted cue, finessing is easier, but you have to really focus on your technique to make the big shots.

 

[Sloppy Pockets]

For example: switching between back and front-weighted cues. With a back-weighted cue, you may find shot-making easier, but could have some issues with finessing shots. With a front-weighted cue, finessing is easier, but you have to really focus on your technique to make the big shots.

I think that may be a big part of it. To tell the truth I never gave cues much of a thought until the past few years. I just picked one off the rack at the bar that had the least warp and the best tip. :wink:

Both my cue and my wife's cue are cheap factory cues, but I looked through a lot to pick ones that had real nice shafts. Mine is extremely forward balanced at 20 1/2 ", while my wife's cue is balance at 18". They both weigh 19 oz, and have shafts that weigh about 4 1/4 ounces. Mine has no weight bolt at all, her's has one (don't know how much it weighs), so the entire weight distribution is different, not just the static balance point.

You tried my cue for a few shots and thought it played real good. I think I remember you are using a DPK with a Predator 314-2 shaft, is that correct? I wonder how similar my cue is to your's regarding weight and balance.

BTW I'd love to hear you ripping it up on the accordion sometime.

 

[FranCrimi]

Sorry --- duplicate post

 

[FranCrimi]

I think that may be a big part of it. To tell the truth I never gave cues much of a thought until the past few years. I just picked one off the rack at the bar that had the least warp and the best tip. :wink:

Both my cue and my wife's cue are cheap factory cues, but I looked through a lot to pick ones that had real nice shafts. Mine is extremely forward balanced at 20 1/2 ", while my wife's cue is balance at 18". They both weigh 19 oz, and have shafts that weigh about 4 1/4 ounces. Mine has no weight bolt at all, her's has one (don't know how much it weighs), so the entire weight distribution is different, not just the static balance point.

You tried my cue for a few shots and thought it played real good. I think I remember you are using a DPK with a Predator 314-2 shaft, is that correct? I wonder how similar my cue is to your's regarding weight and balance.

BTW I'd love to hear you ripping it up on the accordion sometime.

Yep, good memory about my cue, and it's forward weighted, which is probably why yours felt comfortable to me. I can finesse the heck out of shots with the DPK. My Predator cue, which I sometime use, is back-weighted, so I have to really pay attention when I switch cues. I think it's good to use a back-weighted cue when you're developing confidence in ball-pocketing. Over time, you may want to consider switching back to broaden your repertoire.

Our basement was flooded one day and although my accordion wasn't touched by the water, the extreme moisture in the room warped the reeds, and now it no longer plays. I need to find a place that will replace the reeds. Let me know if you know of any places in NYC that might be able to do that.

 

[Mikjary]

You bet we do! I can't think of anything that can ignite a spark of creativity better than getting your hands on a different axe for awhile. As a repairman, I had the pleasure and the luxury of being able to try thousands of different fiddles, guitars, mandolins, etc. over the years. Some of them just speak out to you in mysterious ways.

I've tuned up violins to see how they sound and play when I'm done fixing them, and have experienced the shock of being able to play things I never even learned how to play. One fiddle had me playing the beginning of "Orange Blossom Special", and I never played a bluegrass tune in my life before that. Ironically, it was a very expensive Italian violin, the last thing you'd expect to heard bluegrass coming out of. It just came out, almost against my will.

I've owned dozens of guitars that instantly jumped my playing by several levels, and this improvement transferred onto everything I played thereafter. There was a time I got very sick for many months and had to sell all my precious old Martin guitars to feed the wife and kids. I was devastated to be without a guitar, but a few weeks later I was driving by a yard sale and saw a guitar sitting there for sale. I stopped and saw it was a cheapo plywood student guitar with crappy nylon strings on it. But it was $5, and that was exactly how much cash I had in my pocket, so I bought it.

I took it home and did my best to adjust it for a better tone, but it was just a dog and a half. Still, it was MY guitar, and it was too cheap to save the day when the power company came to shut the electric off, so we were stuck with each other. Over the next several months, my playing style actually began to transform in a way that made the best use of its limited virtues. I developed a more percussive style, pulling and snapping the strings to get some sort of sound out of them. To this day, this technique is still the chief hallmark of my own distinctive playing style, and I owe it all to that crappy POS guitar that opened my ears to a whole new way of expressing myself.

I don't know how this relates to cues and pool, but I just felt like telling the story. Seems more appropriate than all the hate-filled posts coming from certain sad and sorry members here.

I don't visit the forums much anymore, but I decided to log in just to rep you. This post wasn't about pool or anything related to pool, yet it spoke about the reasons why many of us play the game...the creativity and the feel that brings us back despite our frustrations.

Like you, I don't bother reading the hate. Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Mike

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't visit the forums much anymore, but I decided to log in just to rep you. This post wasn't about pool or anything related to pool, yet it spoke about the reasons why many of us play the game...the creativity and the feel that brings us back despite our frustrations.

Like you, I don't bother reading the hate. Thanks for sharing.

Best,
Mike

Hi Mike,

I hope you have been well & have been playing well.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[skipbales]

Suggestion: If you're going to practice hitting the cue ball at the same spot, then hit it as low as you can, and use that as your gauge. Also, be aware of the angle of attack of your cue stick. Try to keep that consistent -- start with within an inch of the rail. You can measure how high off the rail your cue is and experiment with the angle a bit. (Keep in mind, though, if you angle your cue stick significantly, then you will have to adjust your contact point to slightly higher or you will miscue.)

Then adjust your speed accordingly. The biggest error I see players make who are trying to perfect their draw stroke is that they don't hit the ball low enough, even though they think they do and they are constantly changing the angle of attack unknowingly.

Fran, I have seen you post similar advise about draw before and I have the highest regard for your talent and teaching so please don't take any offense to this. I have tried your approach, not for a few shots, but for hundreds and have the following issue. Because I am not a pro quality player and am not as precise as I am working to be I increase my number of mis cues by hitting "as low as I can". I may be taking this too literally. I find that I miscue one time in ten, no matter how careful I am, especially at low speed soft draw or drag shots. By moving up "just a little" I lose the ability to draw the full distance but can draw 1-6 diamonds consistently. I save the lower hit for the rare times when I really need enough draw that it is worth the miscue risk.

Oddly a couple of instructors recommend a hit slightly above the miscue line for a power draw due to the inaccuracy of the hard hit. Other instructors scoff at that idea.

I LIKE the idea of the very low hit for all draw shots and may be taking it too far. I was trying right at my bottom threshold, moving up just a little has eliminated the miscues and replaced them with an occasional short draw with less distance then I wanted. It is not a good outcome but better than the miscue.

Your comments would be appreciated.

 

[FranCrimi]

Fran, I have seen you post similar advise about draw before and I have the highest regard for your talent and teaching so please don't take any offense to this. I have tried your approach, not for a few shots, but for hundreds and have the following issue. Because I am not a pro quality player and am not as precise as I am working to be I increase my number of mis cues by hitting "as low as I can". I may be taking this too literally. I find that I miscue one time in ten, no matter how careful I am, especially at low speed soft draw or drag shots. By moving up "just a little" I lose the ability to draw the full distance but can draw 1-6 diamonds consistently. I save the lower hit for the rare times when I really need enough draw that it is worth the miscue risk.

Oddly a couple of instructors recommend a hit slightly above the miscue line for a power draw due to the inaccuracy of the hard hit. Other instructors scoff at that idea.

I LIKE the idea of the very low hit for all draw shots and may be taking it too far. I was trying right at my bottom threshold, moving up just a little has eliminated the miscues and replaced them with an occasional short draw with less distance then I wanted. It is not a good outcome but better than the miscue.

Your comments would be appreciated.

Sure I'll try to help if I can. Obviously, there is a point where it's just too low and it starts to become counterproductive. However --- you'd be surprised how low you can hit the ball effectively. But when you are striking the ball that low, you have to be acutely conscious of not changing the angle of attack of your cue stick in mid-stroke.

Most players don't even realize that they're changing the angle but when I take a closeup video of their bridge hand and play it back in slow motion, they are shocked to see how much they actually alter the angle while stroking on draw shots.

The reason they do it is because they don't feel comfortable shooting their tip down towards the cloth with speed, and then actually scraping the cloth in their follow-through, so they try to level out their cue in mid stroke. That process of changing the angle of attack results in striking the ball slightly higher than originally aimed and a slowing down of cue speed. It throws off the timing of the shot which results on less back spin being applied.

Keep your angle consistent and and resist the urge to 'correct' your stroke in mid stroke. Try having someone take some close-up video of your hand and see what it looks like.