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Ko's final shot on the three ball? the masse jump?
- Thread starter smashmouth
- Start date
For what it's worth, I agree with most of what you wrote. I disagree with it being kind of ballsy to shoot it. It was the right shot to shoot.
Except that wasn't the alternative - the alternative was to simply draw back a few inches and have a slightly longer shot.
pj
chgo
The slightly longer shot would also be a cut and the speed control to get a good angle on the 5 is a lot more touchy. The route Ko took was at least even odds with settling for a long shot on the 4, probably better odds considering the very real possibility of the 5 interfering with his bridge hand or even jacking him up while shooting the 4.
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Well, going by what everyone has posted, normal human beings would just draw back and take a longer shot.
Only crazy people would shoot the shot like he did, cause the correct play in their minds, is to just draw back.
Realistically, it's one of those "has to lay perfect" types of situations for it to pop into someone's head. It basically presented itself to him and he took it.
And, it did lay perfect in this case. In fact, when I saw it, I immediately said that he hit it bad. He should have been closer to the four than he ended up at, and I think his body language said the same thing.
For those familiar with the shot, this was about as easy as that type of shot gets. For those not familiar with it, it is a circus shot, or something that is so difficult that it should not even be attempted. In this particular case, it was not difficult at all to make the ball and get to where he did. The fact that he hit it bad and still got decent shape is proof of that.
But, as you stated, even a slight change in the layout can change the shot difficulty dramatically. It can go from basically a gimmie, to very tough to execute properly. I think that some not recognizing the difference in the actual layout is what makes some think the shot should not have been taken. Not all shots like that are the same difficulty.
I actually had the shot pop up 3 weeks ago in a weekly tournament.
4 in the side, 5 on the end rail to my left, severe cut angle with cueball and object ball pretty close together, and the cueball going to the right with the 8 and 6 in the cue balls path if I hit it normal.
So I jack up and my opponent is immediately confused as to what I am doing, I take the shot, cut the 4 in, watch as the cueball went right, then zipped left, and I hit it too good and scratched in the corner pocket.
The only other option was to play safe and I figured, if I connect on this, I am out, and my opponent (a newbie) will be completely crushed.
Was just talking to a buddy about this shot, and he is a C player.
What he can't understand is how all these NON world champions, who aren't even CLOSE to being world class speed, are second guessing what a WORLD CHAMPION is doing at the table. HAHAHA.
It's just too funny.
Correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. The problem is that the cue ball was on the left side of the 3, and he wanted to be on the right side so the CB would travel to the left for the 4 ball. The way I see the shot is that it does three things that might bring it to the left side of the table:
1. Because of the masse, the cue ball is coming in to the 3 from the right side instead of the left. So the CB will travel left towards the 4.
2. The left english throws the OB to the right, so he can hit the ball more on the right side than otherwise.
3. The CB has still got left downward spin on it after striking the 3 ball, so it will masse to the left.
Any of these more important than the others in getting the CB to go left?
1. Because of the masse, the cue ball is coming in to the 3 from the right side instead of the left. So the CB will travel left towards the 4.
2. The left english throws the OB to the right, so he can hit the ball more on the right side than otherwise.
3. The CB has still got left downward spin on it after striking the 3 ball, so it will masse to the left.
Any of these more important than the others in getting the CB to go left?
What he and many on here fail to understand, is that what makes someone world class is simply having more of a complete package than others. It does not mean that the champion can do every facet of pool better than a non-champion can.
Yes. That's exactly the situation KO is faced with.
9 times out of 10, the cueball is on the wrong side of the 50 yard line or straight in for this shot to come into play. I've seen it come up in one pocket quite a few times, under different conditions, simply to not sell the farm during certain shots, or to play position. Never ever seen it come up in 14.1 but i assume that it has.
But to answer your questions.
1. On KO's particular shot, it would seem that it is in fact, travelling in a curve and approaching the 3 slightly from the right side. Some cases are more severe then other, some it's not curving the ball at all, and position is strictly based on the masse after connecting on the shot.
2. Never thought about that actually. But depending on if you are in the ThrowIsAwesome/ThrowIsAMyth camps, i guess it could, depending on what belief system you have. Most people are just looking to hit it where it goes, and i highly doubt they think about that particular aspect of it.
3. Yes. In more severe cases of the shot, masse will make the cueball ZIP sideways like a trickshot.
The cb is still coming in from the left, but not at as steep of an angle as without the masse. This is evident by the fact that the cb went to the right after contact. Now, while that is the case here, it certainly is possible to masse even more and have the cb come in from the right and then naturally go down table to the 4.
It just occurred to me that my #2 is totally wrong. I've got it backwards: You'd want to throw the object ball to the right, not the left. So if there's any throw effect, it's working against Ko on that shot. Another way to hit the shot is to use some right english, hit the OB more full or even on its left side, and stop the CB from traveling to the right, maybe even getting it to travel left. Hmm...
Right. i understand.
It's just he is tired of criticism from people that can't run out, about people who do it all day long. And i can't say i fault him for that.
I can understand exactly where he is coming from.
So you think the most important factor in getting the CB to go left here is the after-shot masse? That's what it looks like to me too.
In one word, yes.
I like this type of shot and use if often, but not unless desperate over this distance between CB and OB. He obviously is more confident with this shot than most.
Some said he had little to gain, but I disagree:
1. His bridging may have been restricted going the conservative route either by the 5 ball or rail if he drew further.
2. He had no easy path from the 4 ball to 5 ball via the wider longer conservative options unless using extreme drag and/or slow speed or coming behind the 5 ball.
3. He presented himself with a reasonable 1 rail and 2 rail option to the 5 ball. He took the 2 rail option, which would have been an extreme shot from alternate positioning.
Colin
Some said he had little to gain, but I disagree:
1. His bridging may have been restricted going the conservative route either by the 5 ball or rail if he drew further.
2. He had no easy path from the 4 ball to 5 ball via the wider longer conservative options unless using extreme drag and/or slow speed or coming behind the 5 ball.
3. He presented himself with a reasonable 1 rail and 2 rail option to the 5 ball. He took the 2 rail option, which would have been an extreme shot from alternate positioning.
Colin
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Given Ko's ability, being almost straight in, short distance, and into a bigger pocket, this shot was a hanger. These types of shots come up pretty frequently when I play bar table 8 ball if you know what you are looking at. Most people just don't see this type of shot as being possible. Sure, it is more risky than simply drawing back at a slight angle, but Ko thought it was a fairly routine shot.