Do you use an aiming system or go by feel?

[stan shuffett]

Very good post.:thumbup2:

I talked to one of the best players in my area about CTE & whether or not it had holes. He almost screamed, 'Oh Yeah!' & continued... 'That's why you need at least 2 or 3 methods.'.

Best Wishes.

Why don't you put just one simple shot on video.
Shoot it with CTE.
Explain the process.
Show the gap for your chosen shot.
You can not do tha!
Just ..one shot......PLEASE
Stan Shuffett

 

[336Robin]

The aim is first

A great bit of advise. However, which comes first? Stevie Moore has said that Pro One has given him so much more faith in his aiming that his stroke improved in the process. On a TAR podcast, Archer and SVB both said Moore's game has improved greatly since starting to use Pro One. If it's that obvious to them, why wouldn't be even more obvious to Stevie himself?

I know that when I am seeing the angles clearly, my stroke improves by a huge measure. With the amount that I play these days, that could take 1/2 an hour or even more. It's all strictly by feel after that, but leading up to that point, I struggle mightily. It sure would be nice to know a great alignment system to get me on the proper shot line until I start seeing it clear in my mind. That was my initial interest in Pro One, but it is not something I have been able to put a lot of time into, so I can't say if it would work for me or not. If it worked for me, I would use it whenever it was appropriate. In pool, every little bit helps.

Aiming comes first absolutely then you have to figure in squirt and how your stroke is going to deliver. If you know your aiming is on target then you have confidence in that part, doubts can still exist unless you know your stroke. Initial alignment is a key factor but when you get all of the way down and start looking and tweaking for the perfect delivery that is where the true story is told.

 

[Neil]

Very good post.:thumbup2:

I talked to one of the best players in my area about CTE & whether or not it had holes. He almost screamed, 'Oh Yeah!' & continued... 'That's why you need at least 2 or 3 methods.'.

Best Wishes.

You have thousands of posts about CTE. Why do you need to ask anyone else if it has holes? Or do you just like talking about things over and over that you know very, very little about? Go ahead, show us just one of those holes you claim over and over are there. Surely by now you must know of just one.

 

[Neil]

Good Day John,

It's a bit funny to me how when you make a really good shot you attribute it to CTE, BUT... when you miss a shot it's always due to something else.

Have you ever considered that those really good shots fit the visual perfectly while the miss might be because that shot does NOT fit the visual perfectly & you shot it objectively, trusting the 'system' & did not allow for your subconscious to have any input to get the correct perception of the shot & position you accordingly?

Best Wishes.

Have you ever considered that the miss was a shot that has been made many times using CTE?

 

[Zphix]

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

I feel like this is akin to this thread.

 

[JB Cases]

Good Day John,

It's a bit funny to me how when you make a really good shot you attribute it to CTE, BUT... when you miss a shot it's always due to something else.

Have you ever considered that those really good shots fit the visual perfectly while the miss might be because that shot does NOT fit the visual perfectly & you shot it objectively, trusting the 'system' & did not allow for your subconscious to have any input to get the correct perception of the shot & position you accordingly?

Best Wishes.

No I don't consider that BECAUSE I have setup shots marked out with chalk lines on my table dozens of times to test for myself what the limits of CTE are if any. So far I have personally not found any shots where the ball can be made directly to the pocket with a level stroke for which there is no CTE solution.

Therefore I have concluded that there is not likely to exist a shot where there is no CTE solution. Thus it has been my experience that even when I come up against a "tough" shot that it has a CTE solution and having enough skill with CTE at present to ascertain the right solution on the fly I often make these shots in serious game situations.

OF COURSE though any misses COULD be due to faulty aim. It is entirely possible that I have a brain fart and pick the wrong solution for any shot. I think it happens very rarely but I can't rule it out completely as I am a fairly lazy player anyway and tend to rush into shots a little too quickly. Most of the time though a miss is because of my stroke AND even then the miss is very small, not a half diamond or more which would be expected if CTE doesn't work.

In the past, when aiming by feel, I have indeed missed shots by a diamond or more. Now that doesn't happen much, in fact it's very rare when my stroke is good. When it's bad well I could miss by a whole table.

 

[336Robin]

Like this for awhile

"The conventional army loses if it does not win. The guerrilla wins if he does not lose."

I feel like this is akin to this thread.

Been like this for quite sometime, this subject.

 

[JB Cases]

You have thousands of posts about CTE. Why do you need to ask anyone else if it has holes? Or do you just like talking about things over and over that you know very, very little about? Go ahead, show us just one of those holes you claim over and over are there. Surely by now you must know of just one.

I agree. I don't understand why people won't post diagrams of shots that they claim don't work using CTE and let the CTE proponents answer it on the table on video.

Could it be that there are no holes but they don't know enough about the method to know that? Or they know full well, from experience, that when a CTE user shoots down their arguments on video that they are done?

 

[ENGLISH!]

Why don't you put just one simple shot on video.
Shoot it with CTE.
Explain the process.
Show the gap for your chosen shot.
You can not do tha!
Just ..one shot......PLEASE
Stan Shuffett

Sir,

With all due respect...

You've called me a liar & a hater multiple times.

I've been through this with John & others. A video will NOT prove or disprove anything & neither do yours nor Stevie's & especially when it comes down to matters that are abstract in nature.

I've said the following many times now.

If anyone wants to buy & try your CTE then they certainly should do so. They should just know that the assertion of it being a totally objective 'system' has not been proven nor unproven.

If 1,000,000 individuals do that, then I will be very glad for you... & them.

I have no inclination to get into any back & forth with you as I have seen how you end almost all of them when one does not agree with your interpretations.

I sincerely wish you success in your endeavors.

 

[JB Cases]

This thread still here? Yawn

But I has a question..

Of the feel players, (Me included), what are the supposed "Usually by feel, with aiming systems for hard shots" systems that are "used" on hard shots?

It sure aint CTE. Im kinda smart, but I cant for the life of me think that a feel player would use something SO COMPLICATED on just hard shot. lol Ive yet to find a secret decoder ring/cheat sheet to explain it. So maybe I aint so smart.

CTE seems to be an all in commitment.

I think Sam didn't really formulate the questions properly.

I do know some players that don't particularly use a system in their normal play but they are familiar enough with some of them to employ them when a shot is critical. Doesn't have to be CTE and most likely isn't. Because people don't generally just use CTE sometimes. CTE is actually not complicated, just different.

There is no secret. Just learn it and work it. Once you snap to the visuals then it gets way easier. Those who have more diligence and discipline get way more out of it. Those like me who are fundamentally lazy don't get as much out as we could but we still see a lot of improvement.

 

[JB Cases]

Been like this for quite sometime, this subject.

Well maybe with good reason. Ever wonder why so many people are passionate about this subject?

You even wrote a whole book about just aiming in pool so obviously you feel that it's a subject worth more than a few pages on ghost ball in someone's instructional book.

 

[JB Cases]

Very good post.:thumbup2:

I talked to one of the best players in my area about CTE & whether or not it had holes. He almost screamed, 'Oh Yeah!' & continued... 'That's why you need at least 2 or 3 methods.'.

Best Wishes.

And who is this player, what are his experiences, and what are these "holes". Surely you can get this player to show you the holes and diagram them for us?

And also please ask him what system he would then use instead of CTE to line up those shots.

Not holding my breath but if it's a question of money I will pay $20 for a diagram showing all shots that indicate the alleged holes in CTE aiming.

 

[LAMas]

I think Sam didn't really formulate the questions properly.

I do know some players that don't particularly use a system in their normal play but they are familiar enough with some of them to employ them when a shot is critical. Doesn't have to be CTE and most likely isn't. Because people don't generally just use CTE sometimes. CTE is actually not complicated, just different.

There is no secret. Just learn it and work it. Once you snap to the visuals then it gets way easier. Those who have more diligence and discipline get way more out of it. Those like me who are fundamentally lazy don't get as much out as we could but we still see a lot of improvement.

Hi John,
If you can't memorize the visuals then they can't be recalled. With contact point aiming systems, there is less to remember...like just double the distance for one.

Be well

 

[JB Cases]

I know what i might hear: i find the SEE system helps me to find the line easier on certain shots, when all he need say is i don't care about aiming, never have, never will. My game has not changed one bit since endorsing it, but, if you're aiming curious, SEE is the one to go for because I'm on commission, and the missus is after a new handbag.

This is actually funny. More british cynicism. You might be right but I sincerely doubt that Darren is dishonest like that.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Have you ever considered that the miss was a shot that has been made many times using CTE?

I've made thousands and thousands of the same shot over the years and then turned around and missed it at some points.

I don't know CTE (unless I absorbed it through the ozone somehow), so knowing CTE wouldn't necessarily have any factor on my misses. Are you saying that if I learned CTE I would have went from making the ball 98% of the time to 99%?

 

[JB Cases]

Hi John,
If you can't memorize the visuals then they can't be recalled. With contact point aiming systems, there is less to remember...like just double the distance for one.

Be well

In CTE you aren't memorizing the visuals for every shot. You are learning to figure out which ones won't work at all and pick from the ones that do. Of course you can't help but to catalog them as you work on CTE and some shots do spring to mind as a ETARS (Edge to A right Sweep) as soon as you see it. NO need to cycle through the "keys" so to speak.

I like DTD but I personally find it to be closer to estimation than I am comfortable with. I find it loads better than GB as all the estimating is done on the object ball iirc.

 

[JB Cases]

I'm sure you can find it all by yourself, but the offer stands. You have to give it a good go, however, not simply start a vague thread and then slink off into the shadows. There are enquiring minds there, keen for fresh new ideas on how to improve.

Plus it's potentially a whole new market for you - very few snooker players are brave enough to sport something so [ahem] stylish as the case you're desperately trying to flog in your oversized signature. You could transform the lives of countless frustrated snooker players and make a fortue at the same time!

Sorry no time to go looking but if you post the link to it and your user name I will post.

 

[JB Cases]

I've made thousands and thousands of the same shot over the years and then turned around and missed it at some points.

I don't know CTE (unless I absorbed it through the ozone somehow), so knowing CTE wouldn't necessarily have any factor on my misses. Are you saying that if I learned CTE I would have went from making the ball 98% of the time to 99%?

Maybe. Or maybe if you have some shots that you are 60% on your would go to 80% or 90%

 

[Neil]

I've made thousands and thousands of the same shot over the years and then turned around and missed it at some points.

I don't know CTE (unless I absorbed it through the ozone somehow), so knowing CTE wouldn't necessarily have any factor on my misses. Are you saying that if I learned CTE I would have went from making the ball 98% of the time to 99%?

You missed the nonsense that I was replying to. And, no, that is not what I am saying.

 

[Neil]

Sir,

With all due respect...

You've called me a liar & a hater multiple times.

I've been through this with John & others. A video will NOT prove or disprove anything, Neither do yours nor Stevie's & especially when it comes down to matters that are abstract in nature.

I've said this many times now. If anyone wants to buy & try your CTE then they certainly should do so. They should just know that the assertion of it being a totally objective 'system' has not been proven nor unproven.

If 1,000,000 individuals do that, then I will be very glad for you... & them.

I have no inclination to get into any back & forth with you as I have seen how you end almost all of them when one does not agree with your interpretations.

I sincerely wish you success in your endeavors.

In other words, as usual, you got 'nothin.