★ Aiming Systems ★ Techniques ★ Etc.

[Pidge]

Apparently some of the posters got this thread, while others didn't.

There ARE cookie cutting systems for playing pool that have helped and will continue to help the vast majority of people playing pool.

There ARE also unique aiming systems and techniques employed by professional players, that we don't understand completely.

Sometimes, conventional methods of training just aren't good enough to accelerate one's pool game to the level desired.

Unique systems and techniques will continue to be invented and introduced regardless of your opinions.

IT IS APPARENT TO ME THAT EVERY AIMING SYSTEM HAS HELPED SOME PEOPLE PLAY BETTER POOL. But that's not the point.

This thread isn't about one particular aiming system. Some people just cannot put down their pitch-fork. It really is kind of sad.

JoeyA

Great post, Joey.

Coming from snooker all the top professionals of today have had formal instruction at one point or another. They base themselves on cookie cutter techniques... Which is why they all look so similar in their approaches. But you also have them creating or adopting techniques to tailor them to their needs, this is where they become unique. Without unique systems a player can not reach the top IMO. But can someone using this person's unique technique me it to the top by incorporating it? No, they have to adapt this technique, run with it and make it their own unique technique.

I get a lot of pms and responses to my threads about fundamentals saying that this isn't for everyone so why post it, you could do ore harm than good to a player. They don't understand I am sharing my own unique techniques and it is up to readers that wish to try it to adapt it to suit their own style.

Again, great post.

 

[JoeyA]

Pidge,
Your posts make reading and posting in this forum a real pleasure.

Your posts are filled with valuable knowledge about pool and you have a gift for explaining it. I can tell that you play at a very good level despite the fact that I've never seen you hit a ball.

But what I like about you most is the fact that while you have a wide range of knowledge, you don't run around trying to irritate people by denigrating them for having a different perspective or point of view.

JoeyA

I'm especially happy that you have found your way to this forum and hope you will continue to share your vast pool knowledge with all of us.

Thanks,

JoeyA

Great post, Joey.

Coming from snooker all the top professionals of today have had formal instruction at one point or another. They base themselves on cookie cutter techniques... Which is why they all look so similar in their approaches. But you also have them creating or adopting techniques to tailor them to their needs, this is where they become unique. Without unique systems a player can not reach the top IMO. But can someone using this person's unique technique me it to the top by incorporating it? No, they have to adapt this technique, run with it and make it their own unique technique.

I get a lot of pms and responses to my threads about fundamentals saying that this isn't for everyone so why post it, you could do ore harm than good to a player. They don't understand I am sharing my own unique techniques and it is up to readers that wish to try it to adapt it to suit their own style.

Again, great post.

 

[duckie]

Aiming systems and techniques that some people SELL are not necessary for everyone. That is the cold-blooded truth. You can still go hit a million balls and you might reach Nirvana or not......

However, I have thought on this A LOT. Everyone knows that there isn't an aiming system out there or a technique that I don't like. I have purposefully kept an open mind about every aiming system and every technique used by others and the bottom line is they all work for some people, sometimes a lot of people.

We aren't all built the same, physically, mentally or emotionally and that's why there are all these different ways that people suggest that you can play and improve your game.

While there is a cookie-cutter method of playing pool, it isn't for everyone BECAUSE we don't all see things the same way.

For those of you that dislike or hate (PUT IN YOUR MOST HATED SYSTEM HERE), because it doesn't work for YOU, don't think it doesn't work for SOMEONE ELSE, because it DOES. It might not help YOU, but it does help others. So instead of running behind every thread that offers another option for aiming, shooting or playing and pissing in those cheerios, consider that someone else who doesn't see things just as you do, might just be helped by that particular aiming system.

I have made it a life-long work of learning and appreciating the way different people play pool. I have probed the minds of the best pool players on the planet. I have paid for pool lessons from the best pool players on the planet. They all offer UNIQUE perspectives about how they see things and how they accomplish things and you should consider this before admonishing things that haven't helped you. Please consider that you might not need (or find it valuable) that particular piece of the puzzle but someone else MIGHT and you could be the one preventing them from improving their pool game. We aren't all made alike.

Just sayin......

JoeyA

Referring to the highlighted section.......just what cookie cutter system were you referring? Using "a" and "it" as you did implies one system, not many.

I just called you on trying to hide the fact you were referring to CTE and now the back peddling begins.

Again it's statements like you made trying to imply CTE being a cookie cutter system is the issue.

 

[JoeyA]

Ok, duckie I will give you your moment in the sun. Enjoy it.

I don't pay much attention to what I write. In other words, I don't go back and read what I wrote to see if it is grammatically or politically correct.

The truth is when I mentioned cookie cutting systems I was thinking of the PBIA organization which have a very specific way of teaching pool and they crank out one mold of pool players, imo. I've never gone through their course but I have known others that have and that's why I have that impression of them as a cookie cutting system organization.

Duckie, sorry that I disappointed you. It seems that you and others like you just can't wait to pounce on any anything and twist and turn it just to get a rise out of someone. It really is sad.

JoeyA

Referring to the highlighted section.......just what cookie cutter system were you referring? Using "a" and "it" as you did implies one system, not many.

I just called you on trying to hide the fact you were referring to CTE and now the back peddling begins.

Again it's statements like you made trying to imply CTE being a cookie cutter system is the issue.

 

[8pack]

Ok, duckie I will give you your moment in the sun. Enjoy it.

I don't pay much attention to what I write. In other words, I don't go back and read what I wrote to see if it is grammatically or politically correct.

The truth is when I mentioned cookie cutting systems I was thinking of the PBIA organization which have a very specific way of teaching pool and they crank out one mold of pool players, imo. I've never gone through their course but I have known others that have and that's why I have that impression of them as a cookie cutting system organization.

Duckie, sorry that I disappointed you. It seems that you and others like you just can't wait to pounce on any anything and twist and turn it just to get a rise out of someone. It really is sad.

JoeyA

Its just aiming,,its not the end of the world.
Aren't you the same guy that started the naysayer BS?

 

[Straightpool_99]

Aiming systems and techniques that some people SELL are not necessary for everyone. That is the cold-blooded truth. You can still go hit a million balls and you might reach Nirvana or not......

However, I have thought on this A LOT. Everyone knows that there isn't an aiming system out there or a technique that I don't like. I have purposefully kept an open mind about every aiming system and every technique used by others and the bottom line is they all work for some people, sometimes a lot of people.

We aren't all built the same, physically, mentally or emotionally and that's why there are all these different ways that people suggest that you can play and improve your game.

While there is a cookie-cutter method of playing pool, it isn't for everyone BECAUSE we don't all see things the same way.

For those of you that dislike or hate (PUT IN YOUR MOST HATED SYSTEM HERE), because it doesn't work for YOU, don't think it doesn't work for SOMEONE ELSE, because it DOES. It might not help YOU, but it does help others. So instead of running behind every thread that offers another option for aiming, shooting or playing and pissing in those cheerios, consider that someone else who doesn't see things just as you do, might just be helped by that particular aiming system.

I have made it a life-long work of learning and appreciating the way different people play pool. I have probed the minds of the best pool players on the planet. I have paid for pool lessons from the best pool players on the planet. They all offer UNIQUE perspectives about how they see things and how they accomplish things and you should consider this before admonishing things that haven't helped you. Please consider that you might not need (or find it valuable) that particular piece of the puzzle but someone else MIGHT and you could be the one preventing them from improving their pool game. We aren't all made alike.

Just sayin......

JoeyA

Thats great...So what you are suggesting is that we all shut up, except for praise of said systems/techniques. I love it. Does that also extend to cues? Because I think what the main forum needs is more threads on how "cuemaker x is a great guy". Marvelous.

I think it's a very noble thing you are trying to do. What we all should ask ourselvess is: "What have you done to increase aiming guru x's earnings today?", because it is our job, as consumers, to make sure that they make money. If, for some reason, we can't make their instructions work, then the blame lies solely with us. Under no circumstances should their claims or instructions be put to the test or questioned in any way. Forget Facebook, this open pool forum is where the Communist China like policies should be carried to it's highest level. Brilliant.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Thats great...So what you are suggesting is that we all shut up, except for praise of said systems/techniques. I love it. Does that also extend to cues? Because I think what the main forum needs is more threads on how "cuemaker x is a great guy". Marvelous.

I think it's a very noble thing you are trying to do. What we all should ask ourselvess is: "What have you done to increase aiming guru x's earnings today?", because it is our job, as consumers, to make sure that they make money. If, for some reason, we can't make their instructions work, then the blame lies solely with us. Under no circumstances should their claims or instructions be put to the test or questioned in any way. Forget Facebook, this open pool forum is where the Communist China like policies should be carried to it's highest level. Brilliant.

You forgot to use Green Text for most of those statements.

Best 2 Ya.

 

[JoeyA]

I suppose that everyone is entitled to their opinion but there are those who probably should be muzzled when it comes to certain subjects because it is becoming more and more apparent that they can't help themselves.

In an attempt to demonize certain things which they don't agree with, the haters and naysayers take every opportunity to stir up trouble by ad hominem attacks that have little to do with the subject of this thread.

This thread is a general subject thread about aiming, techniques and methods for playing pool, yet the haters and the naysayers have to bring up particular aiming systems which they detest. Why? I have no idea...It really is sad.

It is an unfortunate situation for the management of this forum.

It is apparent that there more "posters" need to be muzzled.

JoeyA

 

[336Robin]

Shared Culpability

Its just aiming,,its not the end of the world.
Aren't you the same guy that started the naysayer BS?

I think a lot of us share some culpability for the Naysayer vs. Systemizer folks Aiming conflict. Some of us grew up as it progressed but we still have our opinions as to what is most right for us.

That is what it is. Its a personal journey and you have to find the answers for yourself.

I just wish that those people who rail against one another could meet and play. They would likely find that there are real people on the other end of that argument and the most important thing is getting together to play some pool.

Pool is a fun social game.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It is apparent that there more "posters" need to be muzzled.

Let's start with those who constantly call for others to be "muzzled".

pj <- and use up all the blue ink
chgo

 

[JB Cases]

There is a difference between running down, bad mouthing CTE, and questioning the statements made about CTE.

People are gonna do what they want to. They can read and decided for themselves what to use and not.

There are no cookie cutter type systems, because as you stated, everyone is different.

It is up to every player to decided for themselves and to expect some of the statements made about CTE to go unquestion does more harm then good.

Both side of the story need to be out there so a player can make the best possible choice on what to use and even possible to come up with there on way at of all the various discussions.

Besides, according to Stan, there is no stopping CTE, it's world wide, so there really is no need for this thread. Nothing said can stop the growth of CTE, so why the concern?

The concern isn't that people like you will stop the interest in CTE or any other method you don't like. It's that you CREATE an awful negative environment for those wishing to discuss those methods in peace. That's what Joey is talking about.

 

[JB Cases]

Thats great...So what you are suggesting is that we all shut up, except for praise of said systems/techniques. I love it. Does that also extend to cues? Because I think what the main forum needs is more threads on how "cuemaker x is a great guy". Marvelous.

I think it's a very noble thing you are trying to do. What we all should ask ourselvess is: "What have you done to increase aiming guru x's earnings today?", because it is our job, as consumers, to make sure that they make money. If, for some reason, we can't make their instructions work, then the blame lies solely with us. Under no circumstances should their claims or instructions be put to the test or questioned in any way. Forget Facebook, this open pool forum is where the Communist China like policies should be carried to it's highest level. Brilliant.

You all seem to think that you have the right to poison discussions everywhere. You don't. Try to interfere with discussions and lectures in real life and you will be removed.

No one is saying you can't voice your opinion. Start a thread talking about all the negative crap you want and dare anyone to prove you wrong. You will get plenty of conversation.

But why go INTO every thread where enthusiasts are discussing these methods peacefully with the intent of studying the finer points and disrupt them?

 

[ENGLISH!]

While privately own, this is basically an open to the public forum.

fo·rum
ˈfôrəm/Submit
noun
1.
a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on medical research"
synonyms: meeting, assembly, gathering, rally, conference, seminar, convention, symposium, colloquium, caucus; More
2.
NORTH AMERICAN
a court or tribunal.

It's not lecture hall or a church pulpit.

Why does a certain individual not just get his own interactive sight or just do what John has done & use Facebook?

ANY inaccurate statement or assertion on ANY topic WILL get challenged here on AZB. That's the nature of it.

Best Wishes to ALL.

 

[336Robin]

The controversy is the advertisement

The concern isn't that people like you will stop the interest in CTE or any other method you don't like. It's that you CREATE an awful negative environment for those wishing to discuss those methods in peace. That's what Joey is talking about.

Its seems to me the controversial discussion serves as the advertisement for the method that English is so upset about. So why exactly do you argue with him? Obviously you believe in CTE we get that. So maybe you really are attached to arguing with English. You seem to have done a fair amount of it. Yes it does, no it doesn't into infinitum serves what purpose? Really I could care less because I wont read it, but I guess someone will. All I know is it started at post 109 of Sam Lamberts thread and went about a 100 pages and no one won the argument. So what was accomplished? I would say the most of are ok with live and let live yet you argue with someone who is markedly against your position until the hijacked thread was landed into the dungeon in the Aiming Section created at whose behest? Not mine.

Maybe you and English need to square off in the Sand Box or is that the Sand Castle?....lol...waaaa....sorry JB ....I like you but I couldn't resist. I have a warped sense of humor but at least I know it. Its just pool come on!

 

[ENGLISH!]

Originally Posted by duckie View Post
There is a difference between running down, bad mouthing CTE, and questioning the statements made about CTE.

People are gonna do what they want to. They can read and decided for themselves what to use and not.

There are no cookie cutter type systems, because as you stated, everyone is different.

It is up to every player to decided for themselves and to expect some of the statements made about CTE to go unquestion does more harm then good.

Both side of the story need to be out there so a player can make the best possible choice on what to use and even possible to come up with there on way at of all the various discussions.

Besides, according to Stan, there is no stopping CTE, it's world wide, so there really is no need for this thread. Nothing said can stop the growth of CTE, so why the concern?

John Barton's reply:

The concern isn't that people like you will stop the interest in CTE or any other method you don't like. It's that you CREATE an awful negative environment for those wishing to discuss those methods in peace. That's what Joey is talking about.

Its seems to me the controversial discussion serves as the advertisement for the method that English is so upset about. So why exactly do you argue with him? Obviously you believe in CTE we get that. So maybe you really are attached to arguing with English. You seem to have done a fair amount of it. Yes it does, no it doesn't into infinitum serves what purpose? Really I could care less because I wont read it, but I guess someone will. All I know is it started at post 109 of Sam Lamberts thread and went about a 100 pages and no one won the argument. So what was accomplished? I would say the most of are ok with live and let live yet you argue with someone who is markedly against your position until the hijacked thread was landed into the dungeon in the Aiming Section created at whose behest? Not mine.

Maybe you and English need to square off in the Sand Box or is that the Sand Castle?....lol...waaaa....sorry JB ....I like you but I couldn't resist. I have a warped sense of humor but at least I know it. Its just pool come on!

Robin,

Why do quote a comment that JB is making to Duckie Greg & then insert me into your comments & give the appearence that JB was talking to me?

I've been told that you basically agree with me & that the assertion should be challenged.

Is that correct... or do you agree that CTE IS an objective 'system' in it's nature.

Which is it... or... are you going to sit on the fence & sling some mud in both directions?

Given your book, I think everyone should know where you stand.

Please keep in mind, that if you had not made the post you made that I am quoting with your references to me, I would not be making this post.

Best Wishes.

 

[JoeyA]

No Robin. This thread isn't and wasn't about having a free for all on the aiming system that you and others continue to bring up. I know that you know that too. It is unbelievable that regardless of what is said, Duckie, Banks, English and now you have jumped on the bandwagon to have another "discussion" about CTE.

Some of the other haters of CTE have been justly muzzled already and I'm sure more will be getting a fitting soon. At least the muzzle is holding the mouths of some of the hounds shut tight and that's a good thing for the forum.

This thread is about not discussing something if it doesn't float your boat. Or at the worst case scenario, state your opinion and then be gone with yourself. Don't hound people because they believe differently than you do and I mean this about everything, not just TOI, PBIA INSTRUCTION, CTE, SHADOW SYSTEM, LIGHT SYSTEM, JOEYA SYSTEM, ROBIN SYSTEM, DRUGS, HEALTH & PHYSICAL FITNESS, ACCELERATE THROUGH THE CUE BALL, ETC.

One good example that I can offer you is that I don't believe the umbra & penumbra shadow system works all that well. I have used the shadow system and I can see how some people might benefit from using such an aiming system but it isn't for me AND THAT'S OK. Since I come from the school of each to his own, I don't run around trying to denigrate the authors who have written about the system, nor did I make attempts to ridicule those who believe in and use the shadow system. To each his own.

Robin, I realize that you aren't hounding anyone about CTE but you aren't helping by bringing up CTE in this discussion either. So if you want to discuss how my perspective in this thread is faulty or correct in general, go ahead.

If you or anyone else wants to start a CTE bashing thread, go do it and see how that goes for you.

I'm not interested in arguing with anyone about CTE and I'm tired of seeing others argue about it.

The facts are already out there about that aiming system and this acrimony that pops up every time CTE is discussed needs to stop or those who instigate the attacks will find themselves with a very tight-fitting MUZZLE, imo.


I hope you understand my point.

Thanks,
JoeyA

Its seems to me the controversial discussion serves as the advertisement for the method that English is so upset about. So why exactly do you argue with him? Obviously you believe in CTE we get that. So maybe you really are attached to arguing with English. You seem to have done a fair amount of it. Yes it does, no it doesn't into infinitum serves what purpose? Really I could care less because I wont read it, but I guess someone will. All I know is it started at post 109 of Sam Lamberts thread and went about a 100 pages and no one won the argument. So what was accomplished? I would say the most of are ok with live and let live yet you argue with someone who is markedly against your position until the hijacked thread was landed into the dungeon in the Aiming Section created at whose behest? Not mine.

Maybe you and English need to square off in the Sand Box or is that the Sand Castle?....lol...waaaa....sorry JB ....I like you but I couldn't resist. I have a warped sense of humor but at least I know it. Its just pool come on!

 

[JoeyA]

The concern isn't that people like you will stop the interest in CTE or any other method you don't like. It's that you CREATE an awful negative environment for those wishing to discuss those methods in peace. That's what Joey is talking about.

Yes John, it's about discussing anything without having people constantly provoking arguments just to have their day in the sun.

It's about avoiding the constant harassing of posters who believe differently than you do.


JoeyA

 

[ENGLISH!]

Joey,

Please check your message box.

 

[336Robin]

I think we misunderstand or maybe I didnt make my point clear

Yes John, it's about discussing anything without having people constantly provoking arguments just to have their day in the sun.

It's about avoiding the constant harassing of posters who believe differently than you do.


JoeyA

Joey,
Its possible I haven't made my point clear enough. I am not bashing CTE or anything to do with it, that's not my intention. I am talking about aiming in general and have not to my knowledge typed the letter CTE up until this post.

When you stand back and look at CTE you have to admire what Stan has done with it regardless of how you feel about it. Were I him I would be proud of my accomplishments. I do however just not get it when he is boastful, why all that? That sort of thing ignites the very fires we are discussing right now. Really!

The other side is obviously not happy with the claims and boasting so if people only want to discuss CTE in peace then why not practice some peace loving behavior and not rubbing people raw on purpose.

Yes I have an aiming system or protocol and I play well enough and work with the material improving it which is getting a lot better and working with Aiming with English and how to best describe that to a player. I have some happy customers and Im good. I will let my material stand on its own and everything will be ok.

I hope you and everyone understand I am not attacking CTE but the tirade around it.

Hijacking threads for the sake of CTE or selling cue cases is still hijacking. I am only pointing that out. CTE doesn't bother me in the least. I hope I am staying on subject here but I think I mistook your first post.

I have worked with the reflections off of the balls as a useful aiming system and I will tell you I don't like it because its not. Its never made its way into any of my material not even to discuss it.

You see I didn't mention CTE but I could have.

Rick,
I am trying to leave my personal feelings about Aiming out of this thread, really I am. I am not going to criticize anyones aiming technique but I do find that continual arguing over it is counterproductive to a open forum. At some point do you not agree to disagree?Yes you have a right to your opinion but really man you and JB and whomever should be able to find more to argue about. Just because I used someone elses quote doesn't mean anything other that the words itself. Chill be cool I am. In fact we probably share some opinions I am just not going there right now. Maybe if we would practice some tolerance on both sides things would improve here. If you notice I said a few things suggesting the same to the other side of this ridiculous argument.

These claims are what they are and whether its objective a system or not to me isn't argueable as long a pool player has to deliver the shot that ability to be objective will only be measured by the individual player. The one who feels as if it is objective or not. That is for the customer to decide. I think you have and I know I have.

When people sling fuel on the fire its to get attention.

 

[8pack]

I think a lot of us share some culpability for the Naysayer vs. Systemizer folks Aiming conflict. Some of us grew up as it progressed but we still have our opinions as to what is most right for us.

That is what it is. Its a personal journey and you have to find the answers for yourself.

I just wish that those people who rail against one another could meet and play. They would likely find that there are real people on the other end of that argument and the most important thing is getting together to play some pool.

Pool is a fun social game.

I agree Robin. When it comes to aiming it should always be about, this is how I do it.
Give the person the directions, hopefully they find the way.