Confidence in Pool

[Zphix]

Originally Posted by Zphix View Post

I'm a little hesitant to start a thread like this because of the backlash (well-deserved mind you) from my Heart/Passion post but I learned a lot from that post and am working on some problems I noticed about myself from reacting to that thread.

Anyway, I was talking to some friends who haven't been shooting much lately - one is a top amateur player, the other is a mid-level master player. The former hasn't been shooting that much lately and says that his game has suffered a lot, and the latter added that the explanation for this isn't bad fundamentals but your confidence and mental game becomes affected when you stop playing. I've heard this from other players as well so...

Where does your confidence in shooting originate? Is it more intuition that logical analysis, looking at the table, feeling the shots, and running more on auto-pilot (not, in the zone either) than analysis or is it something else?

I'm sure people say that confidence comes from shooting a shot enough times to "know" the shot but I think that then goes into auto-pilot instead of hoards of conscious effort, if that makes sense?

Basically, I'm asking if confidence is more auto-piloted "know-how" and "feel" than anything else for most players. If that's the case then I want to come up with something based in either psychology or spirituality to combat this trend to any degree because I, personally, feel that the mind, body, and spirit are strong and resourceful enough to neutralize the effects of not playing all the time.

For clarification, I am by no means saying it is entirely possible to stop this effect altogether. But, I do think it is possible to either slow down this effect from not playing or make it easier to regain your confidence quicker when you do return from a break of not playing.

I'd love to hear everybody's thoughts here. I'll be looking to compile opinions and experiences into a solid thesis.

-Richard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post

How many hours do you play each year?

5-6 hours total if I'm lucky.
__________________
Player: Klapp Sneaky, PureX HXT30
Breaker: Gino Ferrari, Players JB5
Jumper: Jacoby, Klapp Custom

Then I concur, your spending too much pool playing in your mind, and NOT nearly enough on the equipment.
Because of this all your thoughts and questions are good ones.
One other thing, you'll NEVER figure this out. :thumbup:

Lol, I wasn't sure if you were asking me a serious question or not. I assumed it was sarcastic so I gave a sarcastic reply back.

If you really are curious about how much time I spend per year playing - it depends. When I was in college in Wisconsin where the Uni had tables I was playing upwards of 7-8 hours a day, when I came home from school and was working I was playing about 25 hours a week or so, now I am not working (complications with school) and only play league one night a week and every other week or so I'll grab a special to play 6-8 hours that day.

There's the real stats about my playing. So, what's the point you're trying to make to me?

 

[Island Drive]

Lol, I wasn't sure if you were asking me a serious question or not. I assumed it was sarcastic so I gave a sarcastic reply back.

If you really are curious about how much time I spend per year playing - it depends. When I was in college in Wisconsin where the Uni had tables I was playing upwards of 7-8 hours a day, when I came home from school and was working I was playing about 25 hours a week or so, now I am not working (complications with school) and only play league one night a week and every other week or so I'll grab a special to play 6-8 hours that day.

There's the real stats about my playing. So, what's the point you're trying to make to me?

I'm from WI....
Why would I be sarcastic? Now if you were my cousin 53159, then yes nothings off the table.
My point, there's a threshold of minimum play to create a baseline of play where one can improve. By asking you a simple question, I got an answer, and why would I not think you were telling the truth?
I don't know U.
Over the years I've seen so many people visit this site looking for that magic bullet, and there ain't/isn't one.... OTHER THAN TIME ON THE TABLE....just nuggets that are hard to find and understand at times.
Plus being pool players as were are, we tend to not trust/believe or???.....each other.
But playing very little and not enough, puts your approach/swing/shooting position in the same loop, practicing to get comfortable, now your game is crying out for more board time. Trying to improve the physical act of play
takes the time, that few of us have anymore.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Chael Sonnen LOL

Chael cracks me up!


Since we are talking about confidence and I brought in Aldo/McGregor. I thought I would also post what I just read from Chael on the subject. He has a different take on their confidence.



"I know what I’m looking at, okay. I know what I’m looking at every time. I had my first fight in 1997. When a guy does an interview, I know what he’s really saying, okay. When a guy takes his t-shirt off, I can tell you every substance he put in his body. I know exactly what I’m looking at every time.


"I have never seen a fight of this magnitude, where both are so sure that they’re going to lose. Every time you have a huge fight in boxing, in wrestling, in MMA, both guys are sure they’re going to win. They really believe it. These guys are so scared of one another and these guys are so positive that the other guy is going to beat him. I’ve never seen anything like it.

"Conor McGregor is feathering a nest for a fall and it’s so apparent to a guy that understands the psychology of sport. I mean, he just did an interview where he was saying the secret ingredient to success is failure and nobody can really be the best until they get beaten. It’s like, hey listen man, that’s just not true. I could name a bunch of guys that went undefeated that never got - you don’t have to get beat. But it was a weird thing for him to say, and he was feathering this nest.

"And then Jose Aldo, listen, this guy is a chicken. I can’t even tell you how good Jose Aldo is, but he doesn’t think it. You know, when Georges St-Pierre retired and Jon Jones was absent, I had Jose Aldo the number one fighter in the world, pound for pound. That’s how highly I think of him. That guy’s a chicken. He’s pulled out of five fights, he’s already pulled out of this one once, and Conor doesn’t think he can, neither one of these guys thinks they’re going to win this fight. I’ve never seen anything like it. And the average viewer doesn’t get that it’s entertaining, it’s fun and it’s all these things, but I’m telling you straight up as an athlete that gets sports psychology, these guys are scared of each other.”


The guy is still talking trash even though he is retired. LOL

I wish pool had more trash talking go public.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The key is to switch in your mind from having the goal of winning to having the goal of execution.

Yes, Bob Fancher emphasizes this in Pleasures of Small Motions. My mantra is "just execute this shot perfectly".

Another important thing that Fancher emphasizes is to enjoy the process - i.e., take pleasure in executing each shot without regard to any "goal". I think that's what "pleasures of small motions" means.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Chael cracks me up!


Since we are talking about confidence and I brought in Aldo/McGregor. I thought I would also post what I just read from Chael on the subject. He has a different take on their confidence.



"I know what I’m looking at, okay. I know what I’m looking at every time. I had my first fight in 1997. When a guy does an interview, I know what he’s really saying, okay. When a guy takes his t-shirt off, I can tell you every substance he put in his body. I know exactly what I’m looking at every time.


"I have never seen a fight of this magnitude, where both are so sure that they’re going to lose. Every time you have a huge fight in boxing, in wrestling, in MMA, both guys are sure they’re going to win. They really believe it. These guys are so scared of one another and these guys are so positive that the other guy is going to beat him. I’ve never seen anything like it.

"Conor McGregor is feathering a nest for a fall and it’s so apparent to a guy that understands the psychology of sport. I mean, he just did an interview where he was saying the secret ingredient to success is failure and nobody can really be the best until they get beaten. It’s like, hey listen man, that’s just not true. I could name a bunch of guys that went undefeated that never got - you don’t have to get beat. But it was a weird thing for him to say, and he was feathering this nest.

"And then Jose Aldo, listen, this guy is a chicken. I can’t even tell you how good Jose Aldo is, but he doesn’t think it. You know, when Georges St-Pierre retired and Jon Jones was absent, I had Jose Aldo the number one fighter in the world, pound for pound. That’s how highly I think of him. That guy’s a chicken. He’s pulled out of five fights, he’s already pulled out of this one once, and Conor doesn’t think he can, neither one of these guys thinks they’re going to win this fight. I’ve never seen anything like it. And the average viewer doesn’t get that it’s entertaining, it’s fun and it’s all these things, but I’m telling you straight up as an athlete that gets sports psychology, these guys are scared of each other.”


The guy is still talking trash even though he is retired. LOL

I wish pool had more trash talking go public.

Some people will say almost anything if they are being paid to say something & some will say almost anything to get attention.

Rocky is based on a true story. Going in against Muhammad Ali is a rather daunting task for one to think they can win unless one is one of only a very few people. The guy the movie was based on was not one of those few, but... he went the distance with Ali.

Their is a Clint Eastwood movie called the Eiger Sanction. They are climbing this mountain when a storm blows in & they form a new plan in hopes of just surviving. One climber asks another if he thinks they will make it. The guy, a Brit I think, answers, "No...I don't... but we shall proceed with CLASS.". They did not make it.

I think it's great line from one facing what he knows are almost insurmountable odds.

Best Wishes to ALL.

 

[BRussell]

Their is a Clint Eastwood movie called the Eiger Sanction. They are climbing this mountain when a storm blows in & they form a new plan in hopes of just surviving. One climber asks another if he thinks they will make it. The guy, a Brit I think, answers, "No...I don't... but we shall proceed with CLASS.". They did not make it.

I think it's great line from one facing what he knows are almost insurmountable odds.

One little detail you didn't mention: They didn't make it because Clint Eastwood killed them!

 

[(((Satori)))]

Yes, Bob Fancher emphasizes this in Pleasures of Small Motions. My mantra is "just execute this shot perfectly".

Another important thing that Fancher emphasizes is to enjoy the process - i.e., take pleasure in executing each shot without regard to any "goal". I think that's what "pleasures of small motions" means.

pj
chgo

I read that Pele used to have a pre game ritual where he would visualise himself playing as a little kid and having fun... taking himself back to the time when nothing mattered but having fun and he would stay with these thoughts until he felt those feelings. Then the second part of his pre game ritual was to, with those feelings present, then switch his thoughts to the big game ahead and to see himself executing the way he wanted to.

 

[ENGLISH!]

One little detail you didn't mention: They didn't make it because Clint Eastwood killed them!

No... he did not know which one to kill. So... it was a bit ambiguous as to whether or not he actually 'killed' them all.

Remember he almost died himself & sort of lucked out.

Anyway, the CLASS line was good one.

Best 2 You & ALL.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I read that Pele used to have a pre game ritual where he would visualise himself playing as a little kid and having fun... taking himself back to the time when nothing mattered but having fun and he would stay with these thoughts until he felt those feelings. Then the second part of his pre game ritual was to, with those feelings present, then switch his thoughts to the big game ahead and to see himself executing the way he wanted to.

Yes... a million dollars, but playing for the FUN of the Game.

Playing for the right reasons... & winning is always more fun than not winning.

So...

always play to have the most FUN.

Best 2 You & All.

 

[Zphix]

I'm from WI....
Why would I be sarcastic? Now if you were my cousin 53159, then yes nothings off the table.
My point, there's a threshold of minimum play to create a baseline of play where one can improve. By asking you a simple question, I got an answer, and why would I not think you were telling the truth?
I don't know U.
Over the years I've seen so many people visit this site looking for that magic bullet, and there ain't/isn't one.... OTHER THAN TIME ON THE TABLE....just nuggets that are hard to find and understand at times.
Plus being pool players as were are, we tend to not trust/believe or???.....each other.
But playing very little and not enough, puts your approach/swing/shooting position in the same loop, practicing to get comfortable, now your game is crying out for more board time. Trying to improve the physical act of play
takes the time, that few of us have anymore.

Gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

To my OP, I'm not asking how to develop confidence because I already have it in pool. I enjoy the grind and the struggle to get better and I put a lot of time and energy into improving. All the while, I consistently see people around me looking for a magic bullet and they don't understand that I grind to get better.

Anyhow, if you're from Wisconsin then you probably know the two players I was referencing in my post. The top amateur who is shooting shitty lately is LJ because he doesn't practice, and the mid-top level master is Kyle saying that confidence wavers when you don't play but fundamentals stay solid.

 

[(((Satori)))]

Yes, Bob Fancher emphasizes this in Pleasures of Small Motions. My mantra is "just execute this shot perfectly".

Another important thing that Fancher emphasizes is to enjoy the process - i.e., take pleasure in executing each shot without regard to any "goal". I think that's what "pleasures of small motions" means.

pj
chgo

I read that Pele used to have a pre game ritual where he would visualise himself playing as a little kid and having fun... taking himself back to the time when nothing mattered but having fun and he would stay with these thoughts until he felt those feelings. Then the second part of his pre game ritual was to, with those feelings present, then switch his thoughts to the big game ahead and to see himself executing the way he wanted to.

I knew there was a step that I couldnt remember so I went back and reread it. Sure enough I did. His routine went like this.

Step 1- Take himself back to his youth when he played and had fun.
Step 2- He would then visualize his career highlight real reliving his greatest moments
Step 3- Then he would visualize the performance he wanted in the upcoming game.

He also said the two keys to winning iho were enthusiasm and a mental edge. Pele knew a thing or two about winning and performing great.

 

[(((Satori)))]

N.o. F.e.a.r.

https://youtu.be/CYp8Hldzd-Q


I like this guys simple acronym for what he feels are some of the most crucial mental skills.

N. Never give up
O. Obstacles are oppertunities

F. Focus
E. rEfocus
A. Attitude
R. Respond dont react

 

[336Robin]

The Shot is the Target

Yes, Bob Fancher emphasizes this in Pleasures of Small Motions. My mantra is "just execute this shot perfectly".

Another important thing that Fancher emphasizes is to enjoy the process - i.e., take pleasure in executing each shot without regard to any "goal". I think that's what "pleasures of small motions" means.

pj
chgo

Ive heard this book mentioned several times in pool circles. I appreciate you condensing the intent for me. I've been curious. Incidentally this is something that I work with and pass onto students. Since Ive been getting some students this is the approach I take with them. I find when a person has standard things that they do in an order that when a lot of things are the same in planning, pre-shot, shot, pause and stroke that stability rises and cue ball control becomes possible. It is a pleasure to watch a beginner start to understand and be pleased that his/her standard process is leading them to the water if they use it. When they find out what the end purpose of the standardization is, they start blooming and its a great thing.

 

[SamLambert]

Ive heard this book mentioned several times in pool circles. I appreciate you condensing the intent for me. I've been curious. Incidentally this is something that I work with and pass onto students. Since Ive been getting some students this is the approach I take with them. I find when a person has standard things that they do in an order that when a lot of things are the same in planning, pre-shot, shot, pause and stroke that stability rises and cue ball control becomes possible. It is a pleasure to watch a beginner start to understand and be pleased that his/her standard process is leading them to the water if they use it. When they find out what the end purpose of the standardization is, they start blooming and its a great thing.

It's a great book. It helps with a lot of things. Competitive play, consistency, having fun. I'd recommend it to anyone.

It must be said though. It is hard to apply the notions learned in this book. You have to consciously remind yourself of them when playing and it is not as obvious as keeping your forearm perpendicular and stuff like that.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Ive heard [Pleasures of Small Motions] mentioned several times in pool circles. I appreciate you condensing the intent for me.

To be fair, I only mentioned the main messages I took from the book - it wasn't an attempt to condense the whole book (although I think they are central concepts).

I'm sure you'd like it.

pj
chgo