Practicing Tired Counterproductive?

[PocketSpeed11]

This question is posed to experienced instructors only.

Is practicing tired counterproductive? I want to go to the pool hall to do drills tonight, but I feel physically and mentally exhausted. I simply didn't get a lot of sleep last night and have had a long day. It might sound like I'm looking for an excuse not to go, but I'm a serious pool addict and I would really like to go. I just know that if I go, I won't be anywhere near my "A" game...I just have that feeling I'll be out of stroke.

I personally feel that it would be counterproductive, but would like to know what instructors think. Bear in mind I don't play in league or tournaments yet, so the argument that I should practice when I'm exhausted because I might have to compete when exhausted isn't really valid for me...yet. I'm just an intermediate player looking to improve his skills day to day, week to week.

Thanks for subsequent replies.

Edit: I almost feel like this was a stupid question, because I probably gave the picture that I would be falling asleep at the table. But I've often wondered if improvements are actually made when one is noticeably out of stroke? I would think that improvements could only be made if shooting one's average speed or higher, obviously being the more in stroke, the greater the progress per session. As an instructor, would you suggest simply walking away from the table on a day when things aren't going your way at the table when practicing?

 

[BilliardsAbout]

I heard a good practice rubric from a very strong player, who learned it from his grandfather who hustled a lot of pool. I liked it a lot and it works:

Practice daily for at least an hour for six or seven weeks and then take a week off to recharge and sink in. Maybe this is your week to take a break...

 

[FranCrimi]

Great question. It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

For example, if you were in a tournament, playing all day long, getting near the end, and then suddenly --- you're realize that you're tired. Do you quit? Of course not --- so there is merit in practicing when you're tired. But practice playing games, which is what you would do in competition. It will come in handy the next time you get tired in a tournament. You'll have experience in how to deal with it when it happens.

But if you're just working on drills, then there's no reason to practice tired.

 

[greyghost]

depends like fran said.....for myself if i wanted to do this. I would pick partiular things that i could perfectly work on for just a handful of shots.

may be 2 shots....maybe 10....then i'd be done.

this is sort of how i used to practice when i had my table. every time i went past it no matter what....at least two perfect practice shots of my choosing.

worked awesome sauce....that whenever whereever got my stroke in this bag and gonna wake it up in full gear kind of results from 0-100 no waiting


regards,
GG

 

[BilliardsAbout]

A very wise player and instructor also told me--never quit on a bad shot. Even if you have to set up a simple shot to pocket, walk out with some good experience in you to end the session.

 

[greyghost]

A very wise player and instructor also told me--never quit on a bad shot. Even if you have to set up a simple shot to pocket, walk out with some good experience in you to end the session.

i agree totally. Staying with the same shot if its giving you that much trouble....best to walk away and do something else or simpler shot. No better but it may be worse than just smacking balls around, especially if you start doing strange things which is likely i would think for sheer aggravation.

 

[rrick33]

The answer is yes. It is counterproductive to practice when you're tired.

Keep in mind that when we practice we are establishing and/or reinforcing mental and physical programming.

If you are tired, then you'll naturally lack the intense level of focus needed to maintain the proper mental approach. You will begin taking short cuts and applying less "shot commitment" to your game. You may find yourself banging the balls around the table.

You are essentially programming bad behaviors or worse you are compromising your good programming.

DON'T DO IT!!!

 

[Donny Lutz]

Tired?

The answer is yes. It is counterproductive to practice when you're tired.

Keep in mind that when we practice we are establishing and/or reinforcing mental and physical programming.

If you are tired, then you'll naturally lack the intense level of focus needed to maintain the proper mental approach. You will begin taking short cuts and applying less "shot commitment" to your game. You may find yourself banging the balls around the table.

You are essentially programming bad behaviors or worse you are compromising your good programming.

DON'T DO IT!!!

Coaches in virtually all sports want their athletes to push the limit on endurance all the time. It requires just the kind of mental discipline that serious pool players need.

 

[rrick33]

Coaches in virtually all sports want their athletes to push the limit on endurance all the time. It requires just the kind of mental discipline that serious pool players need.

The brain is not a muscle and therefore not subject to the same physical attributes we often correlate with strength or endurance.

Mental endurance is not achieved by pushing yourself when tired.
There is no correlation between handling mental stress longer by virtue of enduring it longer. You are more likely to get just as tired, just as quickly.

Attitude and perspective are the only measure of endurance when handling stress and those who do handle it more efficiently do so because they have changed their attitude or perspective relative to the experience.

Mental endurance is achieved by managing stress more efficiently so that you don't get tired as quickly while maintaining the proper mental approach.

Pushing yourself when you're tired and believing that the physical aspect alone will build endurance is not practical and quite often counterproductive.

I would emphasize working on ways to manage mental stress as well as the players attitude when tired as opposed to working on "playing through" it to gain endurance.

 

[Donny Lutz]

endurance

The brain is not a muscle and therefore not subject to the same physical attributes we often correlate with strength or endurance.

Mental endurance is not achieved by pushing yourself when tired.
There is no correlation between handling mental stress longer by virtue of enduring it longer. You are more likely to get just as tired, just as quickly.

Attitude and perspective are the only measure of endurance when handling stress and those who do handle it more efficiently do so because they have changed their attitude or perspective relative to the experience.

Mental endurance is achieved by managing stress more efficiently so that you don't get tired as quickly while maintaining the proper mental approach.

Pushing yourself when you're tired and believing that the physical aspect alone will build endurance is not practical and quite often counterproductive.

I would emphasize working on ways to manage mental stress as well as the players attitude when tired as opposed to working on "playing through" it to gain endurance.

Why do you assume that by "endurance" I meant physical endurance?

Do you believe that the mind and the body operate independently? That mental exhaustion is separate from physical exhaustion?

Mental endurance enhances physical endurance and physical activity enhances mental abilities.

 

[FranCrimi]

The brain is not a muscle and therefore not subject to the same physical attributes we often correlate with strength or endurance.

Mental endurance is not achieved by pushing yourself when tired.
There is no correlation between handling mental stress longer by virtue of enduring it longer. You are more likely to get just as tired, just as quickly.

Attitude and perspective are the only measure of endurance when handling stress and those who do handle it more efficiently do so because they have changed their attitude or perspective relative to the experience.

Mental endurance is achieved by managing stress more efficiently so that you don't get tired as quickly while maintaining the proper mental approach.

Pushing yourself when you're tired and believing that the physical aspect alone will build endurance is not practical and quite often counterproductive.

I would emphasize working on ways to manage mental stress as well as the players attitude when tired as opposed to working on "playing through" it to gain endurance.

Anyone who is a competitor knows that it's impossible to avoid playing pool when both mentally and physically tired. And often times, thanks to the luck of the draw, an early match can become the most stressful match, requiring maximum intensity on behalf of the player. It happens. I've often had that happen to me with 4 or more matches yet to play that day.

Understanding what it feels like to play tired means having to put yourself in that environment. You need to know how you react when you feel like you have nothing left and matches yet to play. For example: I learned that when I start to get tired, I start jumping up early on my shots. Practicing tired allows me to rehearse troubleshooting and managing issues that occur in my game when that time inevitably arrives.

There is another benefit to playing tired that I haven't mentioned here. That is that most amateur players don't know the meaning of letting their strokes out and they never can get to that point because they quit practicing for the day before they start to relax. That is why I highly recommend occasional marathon practice sessions of several hours long.

Nothing beats learning about yourself during a marathon practice session, where you will go through different stages as you approach fatigue. Somewhere just before total fatigue, your defenses will break down and you will start to let go of your need to 'control' things, because it becomes too much work. For players learning the game and always trying to do everything right, this is a freeing experience. You will also learn your point of fatigue, at which things will start to break down on you. Do you know now how things break down when you get tired? You should. It's important to know so you can manage it when it happens.

These are a few reasons why playing tired is a tremendous help.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm 62 with a bad back & some eye issues. Friday I played one pocket for 6 hours. I took two Aleeve 1/2 way through. I should have taken them before I started, but I really had no plans to play for that long.

I've played other sports & have rather often reached the point where my body was near exhaustion. One's mind can get one's body to do rather much when the body is ready to quit & wants to quit.

I think perhaps a difference should be drawn between practice & working on a specific aspect of one's game.

Ultimately every aspect of one's game will be tested as one nears exhaustion.

Personally I am not sure that I would want to work on an aspect of my game when very tired, but as Fran & others have said testing how one's game & one's mind will respond when very tired or exhausted can certainly be a good thing if one is going to be competing where that will probably come into play.

CJ Wiley has said that the style of play that he chose, TOI, was partly due to making every shot as much the same as possible. By doing so he felt & feels that he would gain an advantage in a long many hour match when compared to others that where shooting so many different types of shots that required more thinking & physical variations.

One should get to the point of exhaustion just to know that one can still perform when the body says no... IF one has the mind & will to tell the body, "no, there's more to do". It can be done as long the body is not broken down & absolutely can not perform. That's only when an injury has occurred.

I'd listen Ms. Crimi. She has that Player's incite & knows from experience.

Just my nickel's worth for thought.

 

[rrick33]

Why do you assume that by "endurance" I meant physical endurance?

I referenced it because you specifically sited (virtually all spots) and correlated it with (Push their athletes).

Since pool is not traditionally considered an "athletic" sport, and (virtually all sports) are athletic and therefore very physical in nature....it was the natural assumption to be made.

The assumption was logical though apparently not what you intended.

 

[rrick33]

It's important to know so you can manage it when it happens.

You and I may not see eye to eye on this topic but there is one line that we do agree upon. It is important to know how best to manage fatigue.

From my perspective, you can look for ways to minimize stress and manage fatigue without having to practice it. Breathing techniques, meditation between matches, managing food intake for caffeine, sugar etc., mental relaxation techniques...the list goes on.

These techniques can be "practiced" anytime without having to pick up a pool cue. Just get tired and see what works.

I don't favor the idea of practicing while fatigued at the pool table because it can influence your programming.

 

[FranCrimi]

You and I may not see eye to eye on this topic but there is one line that we do agree upon. It is important to know how best to manage fatigue.

From my perspective, you can look for ways to minimize stress and manage fatigue without having to practice it. Breathing techniques, meditation between matches, managing food intake for caffeine, sugar etc., mental relaxation techniques...the list goes on.

These techniques can be "practiced" anytime without having to pick up a pool cue. Just get tired and see what works.

I don't favor the idea of practicing while fatigued at the pool table because it can influence your programming.

Practicing things like breathing and meditation are good, but they're not the same thing as really experiencing it, and I speak from experience of years of competitive playing.

If you really want to know how to manage playing pool tired, you will have to get on a table and play pool tired. The first step is knowing what it feels like.

 

[rrick33]

Practicing things like breathing and meditation are good, but they're not the same thing as really experiencing it, and I speak from experience of years of competitive playing.

If you really want to know how to manage playing pool tired, you will have to get on a table and play pool tired. The first step is knowing what it feels like.

I'm assuming that, much like the case with all other practice; this will have to be done on a regular basis in order to keep the skill honed...? Such is the nature of practice.


If you're simply correlating that you must experience something to understand it, then it stands to reason you must try it at least once to truly understand it.....but to practice it...? I just can't recommend it.

It's far easier to explore methods to mitigate stress and fatigue than to practice how best to play through it. This game is 90% mental. You will always play poorly when mentally fatigued. Practicing under fatigue will not provide the equivalent success as managing fatigue to extend what is likely a highly competent level of performance founded on years of practice while not fatigued.

Not to mention the fact that practicing under fatigue screws with your programming.

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm assuming that, much like the case with all other practice; this will have to be done on a regular basis in order to keep the skill honed...? Such is the nature of practice.


If you're simply correlating that you must experience something to understand it, then it stands to reason you must try it at least once to truly understand it.....but to practice it...? I just can't recommend it.

It's far easier to explore methods to mitigate stress and fatigue than to practice how best to play through it. This game is 90% mental. You will always play poorly when mentally fatigued. Practicing under fatigue will not provide the equivalent success as managing fatigue to extend what is likely a highly competent level of performance founded on years of practice while not fatigued.

Not to mention the fact that practicing under fatigue screws with your programming.

Yes, of course playing tired can hurt your programming. But that's what you have to do if you want to compete in tournaments --- especially local ones ---- where by the time you get to the finals, you are playing very tired. It's unavoidable.

--- Unless you expect to be eliminated early. Then you don't ever have to worry about playing tired.

 

[rrick33]

Let’s imagine there were 2 sprinters who ran the 100 meter hurdles. They had perfected their physical performance and timing so that they could fly down the track clearing every hurdle at record speed. They were at the top of their game.

They show up for practice and the coach says we’re going to run a longer race today. Instead of running 100 meters we’re going to run 300 meters. If you knock down a hurdle, it’s a foul and you have to wait 5 seconds before you can resume the race. If you knock down 3 hurdles you're eliminated.

One sprinter knows he has the skills to clear hurdles. His fundamentals are impeccable and he’s determined to fly through the course just as if it’s the same old 100 meter race. He believes he is the stronger performer and that as the race plays out he will be better at pushing through the fatigue than his opponent. He’s not concerned about performing poorly at the end because he believes they will both be equally fatigued and face the same hurdles. (Pun intended)

The second sprinter decides to take a different approach. While he has the ability to run a hundred meters like a pro, he knows he’s going to have to pace himself and manage his energy levels so he doesn’t burn out before he reaches 300 meters. He understands that it’s more important not to commit fouls and knock over hurdles if you want to win because the penalty of poor performance is more severe than the belief that you can push through and outlast your opponent’s level of fatigue.

The race begins and the first sprinter flies off the mark just like he always does.
The second sprinter takes off but he’s only running at about 70% of his normal speed.

At the 100 meter mark neither sprinter has committed a foul but it appears that the first sprinter has a 10 second lead and is well on his way to victory.

At the 150 meter mark the first sprinter shows signs of fatigue, knocks over a hurdle and takes a 5 second penalty and then again at the 200 meter mark. Despite his commanding lead, he has begun to exhaust his resources.

Because of the second sprinter's slower pace, he has managed his energy levels. He is less fatigued and has yet to commit a foul. At the 250 meter mark they are now virtually tied; however, going into the final stretch, the first sprinter is highly fatigued. He now lacks the ability to perform with the same precision and timing needed to clear hurdles. His attempt to push through the fatigue has left him incapable of performing at a level that would allow him to prevail. It is unlikely he can perform as needed without committing a 3rd foul. At the very least he has to slow down which will surely spell defeat.

The second sprinter, while moderately fatigued, retained an even level of performance and committed no fouls. His performance at the end was still competent enough to ensure he could clear hurdles right up to the finish line.

The first sprinter, upset with his defeat, believes he lost the race in the final stretch and decides to practice by running until he becomes fatigued and look for ways to still perform at a high level. He thinks this is the secret to improving his performance on longer races, but because it is the nature of fatigue that prevents us from performing at a high level, it is unlikely he will ever find effective ways to clear hurdles when highly fatigued.....no matter how much he practices. He failed to see that he lost the race in the first 200 meters by not managing his resources.

The secret is to not be fatigued at the end because you still have to execute to win. You still have to clear the hurdles. This is why managing fatigue to last the race is the more effective approach. Forget about practicing while fatigued. You'll do more harm than benefit.

What you should be practicing are techniques to mitigate fatigue if you want to be successful in long running tournaments.

 

[Ratta]

Coaches in virtually all sports want their athletes to push the limit on endurance all the time. It requires just the kind of mental discipline that serious pool players need.

tap tap tap

 

[rrick33]

Hmmmmmmmmm