apa is awesome because......

Ken_4fun said:
Biggest thing I see is shot selection.

The thing I find interesting is the folks that think the "coaching" is a big deal. What I have seen is that the coaching is usually giving terrible advice, and often advising the lesser player to shoot the wrong shot.

My shot making skills are less than they used to be, but I make up for it by shot selection and shooting "2-ways" as often as possible. When I miss, I usually get told I am "lucky". I just scratch my head like Efren and say, "I got lucky". :rolleyes:

Ken
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I'm not going to doubt what you've seen. I'm the best player on our teams 7/9. There's only so many timeouts available in a match and sometimes you think you'll need it later in a match. With my better players I'll call an early timeout if I think shooting the "correct" ball can get them out. It honestly really depends on the player and where they're at in their game and what goal I'd like to accomplish. If I've tried calling the early timeout and it hasn't worked because some players learn better by failing then I'll let them try it their way (and possibly lose the game) and then set it up afterwards and show them the "correct" way. This is a better learning tool for some players.

Many players will shoot until they're screwed and then call a timeout and we're left with giving trying to give the best advice in a situation with only terrible options. Some people seem unwilling to listen and make the same mistakes over and over and over and ****ing over. It's exhausting and really shows me they have no interest in improving and so I don't call timeouts for them. I'm not going to make them get better, if they don't have any interest in learning then I don't either. I'll do my best to give the best advice I can when they call a timeout.

I'm not the captain of the team and quite honestly I'm not a good teammate as I have way more interest in helping people learn than I do in helping people win.
 
jojopiff said:
I'm not going to doubt what you've seen. I'm the best player on our teams 7/9. There's only so many timeouts available in a match and sometimes you think you'll need it later in a match. With my better players I'll call an early timeout if I think shooting the "correct" ball can get them out. It honestly really depends on the player and where they're at in their game and what goal I'd like to accomplish. If I've tried calling the early timeout and it hasn't worked because some players learn better by failing then I'll let them try it their way (and possibly lose the game) and then set it up afterwards and show them the "correct" way. This is a better learning tool for some players.

Many players will shoot until they're screwed and then call a timeout and we're left with giving trying to give the best advice in a situation with only terrible options. Some people seem unwilling to listen and make the same mistakes over and over and over and ****ing over. It's exhausting and really shows me they have no interest in improving and so I don't call timeouts for them. I'm not going to make them get better, if they don't have any interest in learning then I don't either. I'll do my best to give the best advice I can when they call a timeout.

I'm not the captain of the team and quite honestly I'm not a good teammate as I have way more interest in helping people learn than I do in helping people win.
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Good comments. I echo a lot of your thoughts.

One of the best players in my hometown (never would play league) and he occassionally posts here 1on1pooltourny. The more serious players play more than just one night a week and come to pool room to play and gamble.

But my friend lamented the league players never practice (at the poolroom) and spend 90% of their time worrying, bitc$hing about and manipulating the handicaps. He said if they would practice more and bitc$h less, they would be most improved.

I couldn't argue with his logic.

Ken
 
I enjoy my APA league night because we get to play on 9' tables with Simonis cloth and fair pockets (not too tight, not buckets) and on 9-ball night (which is not as busy as 8-ball night) everybody in APA has access to practice tables. And I'm not talking about one table for all of APA, but rather one table per league matchup. So, if you have 8 teams competing in league, there are four practice tables. And the tables are a mix of Brunswick GC's, Diamonds and Robertson Black Max 9' models. Some of you non-Floridian APA players may know the pool hall where I play because it hosted the APA Amateur National Championship for the last few years running.

In essence, we get to play all night for the price of our nightly fee. And there are plenty of players of all levels available to play against. On nights where I don't play a league match (I'm one of two 7s on my team, and we also have an 8) then I basically get to play all night on the practice tables without having to pay table time. I spend money on food, drink, juke box purchases and the occasional cue repair I can't do myself.

Truth told, I know I'm spoiled with our set up. And if I had to play on 7' bar box tables to participate in APA (or any other league) I probably would avoid it. But it would not be due to the concept of playing in a pool league, but rather because of the equipment. I have never been a fan of small tables.

Considering some of the descriptions of league playing conditions I've read here on AZB, I've definitely come to realize just how fortunate I am with my particular APA situation.
 
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jojopiff said:
Many players will shoot until they're screwed and then call a timeout and we're left with giving trying to give the best advice in a situation with only terrible options. Some people seem unwilling to listen and make the same mistakes over and over and over and ****ing over. It's exhausting and really shows me they have no interest in improving and so I don't call timeouts for them. I'm not going to make them get better, if they don't have any interest in learning then I don't either. I'll do my best to give the best advice I can when they call a timeout.

.
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The one that I NEVER see but I do is this, particularly in 9 ball but can be done in 8 ball easily.

A player is hooked terribly and they call "timeout" as you suggested and they are screwed. The percentage of the 3 rail kick shot is what the "coach" will have them do. He even shows them where to hit it, and how hard to hit it, etc. The chances of them hitting it is less than 10%. Sure enough they shoot it and miss and give up ball in hand. What they should often do is tie up balls, knowing that they will foul, shoot the wrong ball first but tie up balls. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING HERE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS DONE ONCE, and it is never even in the coaches mind.:rolleyes:

If you play one pocket, you can tell a new player as he NEVER wants to take a foul and will shoot incredible flyers before just taking a simple foul. Most league players and their coaches remind me of new one pocket players.

Oh well.

Ken
 
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jaetee said:
I enjoy my APA league night because we get to play on 9' tables with Simonis cloth and fair pockets (not too tight, not buckets) and on 9-ball night (which is not as busy as 8-ball night) everybody in APA has access to practice tables. And I'm not talking about one table for all of APA, but rather one table per league matchup. So, if you have 8 teams competing in league, there are four practice tables. And the tables are a mix of Brunswick GC's, Diamonds and Robertson Black Max 9' models. Some of you non-Floridian APA players may know the pool hall where I play because it hosted the APA Amateur National Championship for the last few years running.

In essence, we get to play all night for the price of our nightly fee. And there are plenty of players of all levels available to play against. On nights where I don't play a league match (I'm one of two 7s on my team, and we also have an 8) then I basically get to play all night on the practice tables without having to pay table time. I spend money on food, drink, juke box purchases and the occasional cue repair I can't do myself.

Truth told, I know I'm spoiled with our set up. And if I had to play on 7' bar box tables to participate in APA (or any other league) I probably would avoid it. But it would not be due to the concept of playing in a pool league, but rather because of the equipment. I have never been a fan of small tables.

Considering some of the descriptions of league playing conditions I've read here on AZB, I've definitely come to realize just how fortunate I am with my particular APA situation.
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I am kinda fortunate myself.

In house apa with more teams than bar tables available some we rotate playing o. 7's and 9' gold crowns every week.

Travel team that home base is diamond 7 footers

Travel team that home base is another pool hall with well kept valleys...play almost as gas as diamonds for some reason.

Travel team that home base is a bar with 6 valleys that dont play too bad...for a bar.

There are a few places we travel to that aren't the greatest but one thing about it....you either adapt to equipment.....which I think makes you a better player or you lose and blame ig on the equipment lol 😁
 
Ken_4fun said:
Biggest thing I see is shot selection.

The thing I find interesting is the folks that think the "coaching" is a big deal. What I have seen is that the coaching is usually giving terrible advice, and often advising the lesser player to shoot the wrong shot.
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Well Ken, you obviously would not make good coach based on this view alone. Coaching is a huge deal, especially as a learning tool for lower level players.

There are 2 things you need to consider when you are coaching a player, especially a lower level player.
1.) What are they really capable of doing.
2.) What are they comfortable doing.

You are not going to coach a 2,3,4 or maybe even a 5 or 6 into a run out if they still have 4 or more balls on the table and some are or aren't tied up. It simply is not going to happen.

I always let them look over the table and I may even let them get down into a shot before I make them take a coach as I want to see what it is they are actually thinking. They may be looking at the right ball, but looking at the wrong leave.

First thing I say every time I walk up to the table is: What is it you are thinking? I let explain to me what their vision is. I then offer advice based on what I think they are capable of doing successfully, not what I think should or needs to be done. I then leave the decision on them as to what it is they feel most comfortable with. Nobody is obligated to follow the advice, especially if they are not comfortable with it as it is setup for failure right then.
 
Skippy27 said:
Well Ken, you obviously would not make good coach based on this view alone. Coaching is a huge deal, especially as a learning tool for lower level players.

There are 2 things you need to consider when you are coaching a player, especially a lower level player.
1.) What are they really capable of doing.
2.) What are they comfortable doing.

You are not going to coach a 2,3,4 or maybe even a 5 or 6 into a run out if they still have 4 or more balls on the table and some are or aren't tied up. It simply is not going to happen.

I always let them look over the table and I may even let them get down into a shot before I make them take a coach as I want to see what it is they are actually thinking. They may be looking at the right ball, but looking at the wrong leave.

First thing I say every time I walk up to the table is: What is it you are thinking? I let explain to me what their vision is. I then offer advice based on what I think they are capable of doing successfully, not what I think should or needs to be done. I then leave the decision on them as to what it is they feel most comfortable with. Nobody is obligated to follow the advice, especially if they are not comfortable with it as it is setup for failure right then.
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You misunderstood what I said. I said that the "coaches" that I have watched are often giving poor advice. Maybe you are a great coach, I don't know, but what I will say again to be clear.

If you are getting poor (or wrong) advice from the coach, coaching has little value. To argue that coaching is important when you are getting poor advice, to me, seems silly.

Best of rolls,

Ken
 
If you want a competitive team in the APA, remember that being coach and captain doesn't necessarily have to be one and the same person. Duties and roles can be delegated. I've played against teams with SL3 as Captains. When I was a SL4/5 I was co-captain of my team,my other team captain was SL2 in 9-ball, SL3 in 8-ball. The team coach was a SL7 (whom everyone on the team thought had the most experience).
 
ctyhntr said:
If you want a competitive team in the APA, remember that being coach and captain doesn't necessarily have to be one and the same person. Duties and roles can be delegated. I've played against teams with SL3 as Captains. When I was a SL4/5 I was co-captain of my team,my other team captain was SL2 in 9-ball, SL3 in 8-ball. The team coach was a SL7 (whom everyone on the team thought had the most experience).
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And some folks take coaching better from certain individuals, as well.

On my 8-ball team, I'm not the best player on my team, but I do the coaches for one of my SL3's, as we communicate well, I know how she plays and what she is capable of, and she understands what I'm asking her to do.

Another SL3 on my team is coached by our SL6, for the same reasons.

We are fortunate in that on that team we have one SL6 and four SL5's, so we can have different viewpoints, and experiences, and anyone is able to coach the other players. One of our SL5's is a far better banker than the rest of us, for instance. I tend to do better with the safeties, or kicks.

Another factor, some of us are right handed and some left handed. That can help a lot with newer players as well, if we're demonstrating the angle and such for the player. We have both right handed and left handed SL3's, so sometimes that is important as well.

We usually try to make it a point to use a time out if our player has ball-in-hand and only a few to go, to give them a better idea and plan. That's better than waiting for them to get in trouble.

My biggest coaching challenge is my tendency to try and hang onto one of my players time-outs "in case we really need it", and then have my player lose without having used their time-outs. I'm trying to do better at that....
 
Ken_4fun said:
The one that I NEVER see but I do is this, particularly in 9 ball but can be done in 8 ball easily.

A player is hooked terribly and they call "timeout" as you suggested and they are screwed. The percentage of the 3 rail kick shot is what the "coach" will have them do. He even shows them where to hit it, and how hard to hit it, etc. The chances of them hitting it is less than 10%. Sure enough they shoot it and miss and give up ball in hand. What they should often do is tie up balls, knowing that they will foul, shoot the wrong ball first but tie up balls. I HAVE BEEN PLAYING HERE FOR ABOUT 6 MONTHS AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS DONE ONCE, and it is never even in the coaches mind.:rolleyes:

If you play one pocket, you can tell a new player as he NEVER wants to take a foul and will shoot incredible flyers before just taking a simple foul. Most league players and their coaches remind me of new one pocket players.

Oh well.

Ken
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I agree. We don't see it very often here, and I'm guilty of over-looking that frequently as well.

We do have a pretty good record of having our players just pick up the cue ball and give it to the other player as opposed to breaking out clusters and such, certainly more often in 8-ball than 9-ball but even then sometimes....

Always good to keep those things in mind, thanks Ken.
 
My last APA team was SL 2,2,2,3,(4/5) & 7. I started out as SL3 then peaked at SL5, and dropped back down to SL4. I think I got the job as co-captain because I was willing to show up on time and do the scoring. Scoring was beneath our SL 7, but he offered to coach.

Non APA league story to share, my team captain was a D+. When he asked me to join, he asked if I could get my friend who is a B+ to join. My friend took the summer off to spend time with his kids, but suggested a new guy 'Ray'. Ray was only ranked as D+ at the time. So I passed the recommendation to my team captain. After watching Ray for 15 minutes, my team captain commented 'what's so special about him? I haven't seen him make a hard shot yet. Another comment about the kid is lucky when he misses, he hooks his opponent. Ray went from a D+ to C+ within 2 seasons, and now likely a B.


justadub said:
And some folks take coaching better from certain individuals, as well.

On my 8-ball team, I'm not the best player on my team, but I do the coaches for one of my SL3's, as we communicate well, I know how she plays and what she is capable of, and she understands what I'm asking her to do.

Another SL3 on my team is coached by our SL6, for the same reasons.

We are fortunate in that on that team we have one SL6 and four SL5's, so we can have different viewpoints, and experiences, and anyone is able to coach the other players. One of our SL5's is a far better banker than the rest of us, for instance. I tend to do better with the safeties, or kicks.

Another factor, some of us are right handed and some left handed. That can help a lot with newer players as well, if we're demonstrating the angle and such for the player. We have both right handed and left handed SL3's, so sometimes that is important as well.

We usually try to make it a point to use a time out if our player has ball-in-hand and only a few to go, to give them a better idea and plan. That's better than waiting for them to get in trouble.

My biggest coaching challenge is my tendency to try and hang onto one of my players time-outs "in case we really need it", and then have my player lose without having used their time-outs. I'm trying to do better at that....
Click to expand...
 
If an APA league did not start up in my hometown, I would be a totally different person today. When I was a teenager, on Friday nights my friends and I hung out at a skating rink which had one bar table. I was what you could call a young "banger". I played pool socially until I graduated high school, which is when I joined a small local APA doubles league and started out as a lowly SL 2 or 3 in 8-ball. I met a lot of players who I considered great at the time and I learned a lot from the butt kickings they gave me. Little did I know at the time, there were even better players out there. I currently do not play in APA but when I left I was a SL 7 in 8-ball and SL 8 in 9-ball. One of the best complements I have received is when the league operator told me that he considered me to the most improved player he has seen in his league and he also told me that when I was a SL 6 in 8-ball, I was the strongest and most consistent SL 6 in his league. That compliment really meant a lot coming from a respected friend and strong pool player.
Playing in the APA also helped my social life. Before I started playing in APA, I was very quiet and reserved. Being in a social setting helped me come out of my shell. I also met a lot of great friends and had a lot of good times, especially in 2007 or 2008 when I went to Vegas for the National Team Championships in 8-ball. Eventually I would meet the mother of my first and only son through her grandmother, who happened to play on the same team as me.
If you take APA as it is, which is to introduce new players to the game and encourage a fun night out, then there should be no qualms. The ones who take APA too seriously instead of finding a league geared more towards serious players are the ones who ruin it for most APA league players.
 
I haven't played APA in about 10 years. Always enjoyed it though. The one aspect I didn't enjoy was having my captain call a timeout when I didn't need it.

I shoot in the UPA now. it's called shots, team can field up to 28 a night. they have 8,9 &10 ball leagues. rankings go from 1-10. also, the shooter is the only person who can call time outs. I sorta hate that rule now because I could see many times that I want to call timeouts to better situate my teammates sometimes.
 
Ken_4fun said:
You misunderstood what I said. I said that the "coaches" that I have watched are often giving poor advice. Maybe you are a great coach, I don't know, but what I will say again to be clear.

If you are getting poor (or wrong) advice from the coach, coaching has little value. To argue that coaching is important when you are getting poor advice, to me, seems silly.

Best of rolls,

Ken
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I certainly did not get that from what you said. :o
 
Don't play APA.
Never have, never will.
But I will say one thing...You walk into a bar and bust up their team's local APA hero, and the APA groupies that once worshipped him, jump ship and you all of a sudden have all these girls wanting to bear your children.

Pretty awesome indeed
:D
 
SUPERSTAR said:
Don't play APA.
Never have, never will.
But I will say one thing...You walk into a bar and bust up their team's local APA hero, and the APA groupies that once worshipped him, jump ship and you all of a sudden have all these girls wanting to bear your children.

Pretty awesome indeed
:D
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Lol. Amen to that brother!
 
BmoreMoney said:
Lol. Amen to that brother!
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Is that how they roll in Bal'mer?
Where, I'm heading there next time I'm in Bal'mer.

I beat a guy from Bowie when we were in Las Vegas a couple of years ago, his girl called me cheater, made no mention of birthin' babies. I musta been doing something wrong.
I hope that's not casting all Marylanders in a similar light...
 
Celophanewrap said:
Is that how they roll in Bal'mer?
Where, I'm heading there next time I'm in Bal'mer.

I beat a guy from Bowie when we were in Las Vegas a couple of years ago, his girl called me cheater, made no mention of birthin' babies. I musta been doing something wrong.
I hope that's not casting all Marylanders in a similar light...
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Well Wrap, for the record we consider Bowie part of the DC crowd and Baltimore and DC dont usually get along so well. What SuperStar said is pretty much how it happens, seen it over and over. I made a similar reference earlier in this thread along the same lines. I must say, pool has been very very good to me in regards to women over the years starting at age 13 and thru the present. Actually two of the absolute best chics I've dated came to me via pool. The ABSOLUTE worst one did too bur that's another story lol. Pool is a great catalyst for an introduction too. You can walk into any bar anywhere and start playing pool and know everyone in there in about 15 minutes. Keep in mind YMMV
 
BmoreMoney said:
Well Wrap, for the record we consider Bowie part of the DC crowd and Baltimore and DC dont usually get along so well. What SuperStar said is pretty much how it happens, seen it over and over. I made a similar reference earlier in this thread along the same lines. I must say, pool has been very very good to me in regards to women over the years starting at age 13 and thru the present. Actually two of the absolute best chics I've dated came to me via pool. The ABSOLUTE worst one did too bur that's another story lol. Pool is a great catalyst for an introduction too. You can walk into any bar anywhere and start playing pool and know everyone in there in about 15 minutes. Keep in mind YMMV
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OK, but we need names
 
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