CUES, To Copy or Not to Copy...MY Clarification

[skins]

That's an absolutely terrible comparison considering what were talking about here. I think that the person involved in the designs doesn't merit an opinion because there's no way to be objective.

The designs are so similar that even the educated may get confused when you tell them they're looking at two different designers... pretty pathetic actually.

So what your saying is the designers for Porche shouldn't have an opinion if someone says their cars "look" the same as Bugatti and visa vera??? .....THATS whats pathetic buddy.

The ONLY similarity to the designs is the FORMAT or STYLE they're created in. They're actually just fancy, and some not so fancy, sleeve designs that are then carried up into the forearm with some length added to fill the forearm canvas... "Floating Point Elemental" designs. Pretty simple concept actually. Seemingly easy to do but with a lot of factors that can make what you want to do not work. They are all unique but what ties them is the symetry that pulls them together which comes from my thoughts. Compare that other makers that make traditional pointed cues that maybe shorten OR lengthen their point a little more or less to look different. I've chosen to design in a certain style to achieve a look that MY designs look best. To me. Whether I share them with one or a thousand makers makes no difference. The makers don't HAVE to use them. But they will know what THEY use, the exact same will not be shared with another maker.

If you think that all the cues below "look" similar, than all you see is a long peice of wood or whatever you think it is. Just like a person who's asked what their favorite car is and they reply "a red one"..



..................

Maybe you'll like these better... Even though they use the same concept as above but with traditinoal points....

 

[rhinobywilhite]

I tend to agree with a previous poster. Most cue designs are a representation of
previous designs found in art, architecture, animals. etc.

I enjoy seeing how a cuemaker interprets that design into his cue art. The only design work I do not like is when someone attempts to pass his/her work off as an original and he does not sign it-thus it seems, to me, to be a fake and not a tribute.

Most, not all cue inlays are a variation of some other inlay or art as mentioned in the first sentence. If one does not like a cue design or is offended by it, he doe not have to look at it or purchase it.

Why do some people appoint themselves as final judge regarding a cuemaker's product? I see a lot of designs that I don't personally care for but I keep my mouth shut. Someone else probably loves those designs.

 

[ghost ball]

...

I DON'T COPY. Unless I copy myself...LOL:rotflmao:

Maybe you don't copy, but you, for sure, have a style that is one dimensional; tribal. All them cues in your sig line look essentially the same, with the exception of the pointed ones.

 

[skins]

Oh, your cue is probably a one of a kind according to them. If they change ONE element, it's a different cue. Let's say your cue is ebony, with ivory and turquoise inlays. If he/she changes the turquoise to malachite, it's a COMPLETELY different cue, now. Cue maker logic

I know of no OTHER makers who will take a request for a "one of a kind" geometric design without the cutomer "paying" for it.

Sometimes when it comes to A cutomer making a request that their cue be one of a kind, a maker WILL just change the material IF the elements within the cue are his standard elements he has used before. Or maybe even combine two or more different "looks"... Thats no big deal. That gives the customer a sense of getting something special without having to design new inlay work which will Blow the customers wallet up since the maker would do all that thought, design, and creation and wouldn't be able to reuse those elements.... Most of the time it comes down to how much time a customer wants to pay for...

 

[skins]

I tend to agree with a previous poster. Most cue designs are a representation of
previous designs found in art, architecture, animals. etc.

I enjoy seeing how a cuemaker interprets that design into his cue art. The only design work I do not like is when someone attempts to pass his/her work off as an original and he does not sign it-thus it seems, to me, to be a fake and not a tribute.

Most, not all cue inlays are a variation of some other inlay or art as mentioned in the first sentence. If one does not like a cue design or is offended by it, he doe not have to look at it or purchase it.

Why do some people appoint themselves as final judge regarding a cuemaker's product? I see a lot of designs that I don't personally care for but I keep my mouth shut. Someone else probably loves those designs.

Yep. One mans hooptie is another mans Cadillac...

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

So what your saying is the designers for Porche shouldn't have an opinion if someone says their cars "look" the same as Bugatti and visa vera??? .....THATS whats pathetic buddy.

The ONLY similarity to the designs is the FORMAT or STYLE they're created in. They're actually just fancy, and some not so fancy, sleeve designs that are then carried up into the forearm with some length added to fill the forearm canvas... "Floating Point Elemental" designs. Pretty simple concept actually. Seemingly easy to do but with a lot of factors that can make what you want to do not work. They are all unique but what ties them is the symetry that pulls them together which comes from my thoughts. Compare that other makers that make traditional pointed cues that maybe shorten OR lengthen their point a little more or less to look different. I've chosen to design in a certain style to achieve a look that MY designs look best. To me. Whether I share them with one or a thousand makers makes no difference. The makers don't HAVE to use them. But they will know what THEY use, the exact same will not be shared with another maker.

Everything can be attributed to perspective which is why beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one mans trash is another mans treasure. The designs are confusingly similar and your analogy between Porsche and Bugatti is so far out there that I'm afraid someone is going to show up to your home soon to drag you off to the funny farm. A better analogy would be between Porsche Carrera GT3 and Porsche Cayman GT4. Both have excellent engineering/design and have some similar attributes but they are still different animals.

One cue has these rings and this color inlay or dots here and there. It doesn't really matter when the general theme is the same over and over again. If you have two different builders using the same theme/design it's because they either both love it that much or maybe one of them has no original design talent and has to ride coat tails.

To answer the original question... To Copy or Not to Copy...MY Clarification (I copied and pasted that... sorry)

If someone were to copy an original to an exact standard without prior permission, they should be ashamed of themselves. Anything other than a replica version is a personal twist on historic styling of cues and the evolution between decades. I also believe it to be true that imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[skins]

Maybe you don't copy, but you, for sure, have a style that is one dimensional; tribal. All them cues in your sig line look essentially the same, with the exception of the pointed ones.

To YOU it's tribal. To me it's not.

So does that make it "two dimensional" now?

The fact that YOU interpret what YOU see one way and others see what they see another, is what makes ALL design much more than "one dimensional"...

"There's an ass for every seat" ... Thats an old saying by the way. Im not calling you an ass...yet

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

So what your saying is the designers for Porche shouldn't have an opinion if someone says their cars "look" the same as Bugatti and visa vera??? .....THATS whats pathetic buddy.

The ONLY similarity to the designs is the FORMAT or STYLE they're created in. They're actually just fancy, and some not so fancy, sleeve designs that are then carried up into the forearm with some length added to fill the forearm canvas... "Floating Point Elemental" designs. Pretty simple concept actually. Seemingly easy to do but with a lot of factors that can make what you want to do not work. They are all unique but what ties them is the symetry that pulls them together which comes from my thoughts. Compare that other makers that make traditional pointed cues that maybe shorten OR lengthen their point a little more or less to look different. I've chosen to design in a certain style to achieve a look that MY designs look best. To me. Whether I share them with one or a thousand makers makes no difference. The makers don't HAVE to use them. But they will know what THEY use, the exact same will not be shared with another maker.

If you think that all the cues below "look" similar, than all you see is a long peice of wood or whatever you think it is. Just like a person who's asked what their favorite car is and they reply "a red one"..



..................

Maybe you'll like these better... Even though they use the same concept as above but with traditinoal points....

Let's see. In the first picture, the inlays in the top and bottom cue are the IDENTICAL pattern. Different inlay material, but the EXACT SAME DESIGN. The handles are different, but the forearm and butt inlays match EXACTLY. So using the car comparison, you have a blue 2015 Mustang with Shelby stripes, and a grey 2015 Mustang with no stripes, and black doors. THE EXACT SAME CAR with different accents. So I don't see a whole lot of originality in one design vs the other.

The straight point cues? The bottom two look REMARKABLY like Black Boar cues. In particular, the butt sleeves. Sure, you have changed the shape of the inlays slightly, which I guess according to you, makes it your design as it isn't a direct knock off, but I think you or Keith have "borrowed" some inspiration from Tony.

 

[skins]

Everything can be attributed to perspective which is why beauty is in the eye of the beholder and one mans trash is another mans treasure. The designs are confusingly similar and your analogy between Porsche and Bugatti is so far out there that I'm afraid someone is going to show up to your home soon to drag you off to the funny farm. A better analogy would be between Porsche Carrera GT3 and Porsche Cayman GT4. Both have excellent engineering/design and have some similar attributes but they are still different animals.

One cue has these rings and this color inlay or dots here and there. It doesn't really matter when the general theme is the same over and over again. If you have two different builders using the same theme/design it's because they either both love it that much or maybe one of them has no original design talent and has to ride coat tails.

General "theme" is the same?...Like in cars too right? I mean ANYONE can look at a car and know its a car right?

Just like pool cues. ANYONE can tell the difference between one and a broom stick SO what makes them different IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. The designs ON them. NONE of those designs I've shown are remotely similar. If you cant see that then God help you. Sure, they're made to fit a "format" OF MY CHOICE, just like car manufacturers building a car. They start with a frame or sub frame, drivetrain, body, interior etc... THEN you decide their "look"...Just like in the process of designing and building pool cues with pin, joint, forearm, handle, sleeve, cap, AND THEN their "look" AND their "paint" (inlays for yous' that didn't get the analogy :wink.

If you cant understand the comparison I made then I'm inclined to believe you're coming to us FROM that funny farm.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

If you cant see that then God help you.....If you cant understand the comparison I made then I'm inclined to believe you're coming to us FROM that funny farm.

God help you? Wow. It's a discussion about cues. Go take a nap. Do something to improve your mood. That's about as condescending a comment that one can make.

He doesn't need help. You need to grow up and learn that differences of opinion can be expressed without making someone feel small because they don't agree with you.

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

General "theme" is the same?...Like in cars too right? I mean ANYONE can look at a car and know its a car right?

Just like pool cues. ANYONE can tell the difference between one and a broom stick SO what makes them different IS WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE. The designs ON them. NONE of those designs I've shown are remotely similar. If you cant see that then God help you. Sure, they're made to fit a "format" OF MY CHOICE, just like car manufacturers building a car. They start with a frame or sub frame, drivetrain, body, interior etc... THEN you decide their "look"...Just like in the process of designing and building pool cues with pin, joint, forearm, handle, sleeve, cap, AND THEN their "look" AND their "paint" (inlays for yous' that didn't get the analogy :wink.

If you cant understand the comparison I made then I'm inclined to believe you're coming to us FROM that funny farm.

You should be proud about how very clever you are. Unfortunately just because you have the last word does not make your correct. I'm not sure I could tell a broom stick from one of your cues so long as I put some tribal stickers on it and pretended it was unique.

<<<Dropping mic... I'm out.

 

[skins]

Let's see. In the first picture, the inlays in the top and bottom cue are the IDENTICAL pattern. Different inlay material, but the EXACT SAME DESIGN. The handles are different, but the forearm and butt inlays match EXACTLY. So using the car comparison, you have a blue 2015 Mustang with Shelby stripes, and a grey 2015 Mustang with no stripes, and black doors. THE EXACT SAME CAR with different accents. So I don't see a whole lot of originality in one design vs the other.

The straight point cues? The bottom two look REMARKABLY like Black Boar cues. In particular, the butt sleeves. Sure, you have changed the shape of the inlays slightly, which I guess according to you, makes it your design as it isn't a direct knock off, but I think you or Keith have "borrowed" some inspiration from Tony.

First Shawn. Of course the top and bottom cue are from the same design. Just like four point cues with diferent colored veneers. I dont get your point. Are you going to condem EVERY maker that made a four point cue just like one they made before but only changed the veneer colors??? Your thought process makes no sense.

That design is called "Babalon". It's one of the designs Keith offers. Simple as that. Just like Ernies "Rasputin" design (and many others hes made), many cues are made with it using the same or different materials so I dont know what your trying to imply? That because I, or for example Ernie Gutierrez (Ginacue), use the same design on multiple cues we have no originality? Are you serious?

Second when I designed that cue, called "Batman" by the way, I assure you the thought of Tony's cues never crossed my mind. Not even remotely. In fact it was the old non veneered ebony prongs of Gus Szamboti and Meucci that gave me inspiration... That cue was made about 10 years ago and the design done years before that. It was just tweaked to fit Keiths cue dimensions....See if you can figure out where the Meucci isnspiration came from... Good Luck.

 

[skins]

You should be proud about how very clever you are. Unfortunately just because you have the last word does not make your correct. I'm not sure I could tell a broom stick from one of your cues so long as I put some tribal stickers on it and pretended it was unique.

<<<Dropping mic... I'm out.

Of course you run... You're out of ammunition.

Your points made no sense to this discussion... See ya

 

[skins]

God help you? Wow. It's a discussion about cues. Go take a nap. Do something to improve your mood. That's about as condescending a comment that one can make.

He doesn't need help. You need to grow up and learn that differences of opinion can be expressed without making someone feel small because they don't agree with you.

What the heck are you reading Shawn. I mean the guy comes into a discussion and tells ME I should be taken off to the funny farm for my analogies and for how I design and and YOU tell me IM being condescending?... You've really lost it, well thats if you ever had it..

 

[skins]

This has gotten SOOOOO far off topic.... BUT it's all good :smile:

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

Actually I find no point in spending my entire day arguing with an idiot who's obviously in love with himself. How is it possible that I run out of ammunition when you keep spoon feeding it to me I'm bored at this point because the entire conversation is useless. I made the mistake of thinking when you started the thread, you were looking to express something and then hear responses of what everyone else thought.

You're just another shitty person baiting other people in so you can indulge your shitty self.

Have an awesome day sir.

 

[skins]

Actually I find no point in spending my entire day arguing with an idiot who's obviously in love with himself. How is it possible that I run out of ammunition when you keep spoon feeding it to me I'm bored at this point because the entire conversation is useless. I made the mistake of thinking when you started the thread, you were looking to express something and then hear responses of what everyone else thought.

You're just another shitty person baiting other people in so you can indulge your shitty self.

Have an awesome day sir.

No I'm not "baiting" you. I'm "debating" you and you have nothing more of substance to add because your argument was flawed and without direction from the beginning. You have nothing to back it up..Now that you've been exposed you resort to becoming nasty. Thats nothing new....

 

[plhlolelnlilx]

None of this is up for debate. Your thoughts are your thoughts and everyone else had their own. I read responses from everyone and may not agree but I don't feel a need to reply until someone believes their opinion is the only one that counts. Some people may think that you're a gift from God. I think you're a d-bag who as a person is one dimensional. I say you're boring, you say I have no substance... Look! You're even copying my arguments.

Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

What the heck are you reading Shawn. I mean the guy comes into a discussion and tells ME I should be taken off to the funny farm for my analogies and for how I design and and YOU tell me IM being condescending?... You've really lost it, well thats if you ever had it..

This was never a discussion. Your threads are usually a way for you to pat yourself on the back, and verbally abuse anyone that doesn't share your opinion 100%.

Discussions involve listening, something you've proven you cannot do.

All the best, Tim. I'm done playing with you. You're ENGLISH, except you program CNC machines. That's about it.

 

[jasonlaus]

Are the cues in your sig line 1 or 2 makers? I'm on my phone and cannot tell.