One Pocket handbook?

[lfigueroa]

What continually amazes me is when I see a very good player totally overlook an obvious shot (a good one) in One Pocket. Some of the best safeties are little bunt shots where the cue ball rolls only a few inches. So many times I've seen players go for outrageous shots and overlook a simple safety that was right there.

There are other basic One Pocket moves and strategy (like banking balls into the correct side of the pack and not at your hole) that most all beginning to intermediate players know nothing about. I could go on and on but suffice to say that a little good instruction can go a long way in speeding up the learning curve. It won't help in the execution of shots but it will assist a player in not overlooking some good options.

P.S. When all else fails leave your opponent down table and straight in! That may sound obvious but I've seen good players overlook this option and play some crazy shot trying to get out of a trap.

Given the same table layout every player sees something different when they come to the table. Part of it is experience, part of it is imagination, and part of it is ability to execute.

The first part of that, the experience, is what you've seen, done in the past, and had done to you. Some of the most devastating tactics I have in my arsenal are a result of the horrible things that have been done to me by other players. They do something simple and I go, "wow. That was so simple and now I'm in the pickle jar. I can't wait to do that to someone " It also encompasses what you've seen in money games, DVDs, streams, and your own games. I believe that one of the biggest mistakes an aspiring 1pocket player can make is playing the same few guys all the time to the point that you get comfortable and can totally predict how they'll respond in any given situation. There are so many different approaches to the game, and so many options in many given scenarios, that you need to play a wide variety of guys to learn.

The second part, imagination, is just something you have or you don't. No two scenarios are exactly the same and often a fraction of an inch in the position of an OB or the CB can make a huge difference. I've played some guys who come with shots that afterwards I've had to replay a few times in my mind's eye to grasp what they did and why they did it. Other guys are like robots and there are few if any surprises.

Lastly, a lot has to do with what you feel you can do on any given day. Some days, when I'm playing well, I will go for shots off the high board that require a high degree of execution. Other days I stay in the shallow end of the pool and dog paddle. So in many instances what you see when you approach the table is/should be rooted in what you can reliably do.

1pocket can be a little be like MMA: some games it's all about striking, others, ground-and-pound, and yet others it's gaining an advantage with a hold and applying pressure until the other guy taps out.

Lou Figueroa

 

[GoldCrown]

Where ya been buddy?

PS. Watched some great one pocket players at the 1st annual Philadelphia one pocket championship at Classic Billiards. Watching some of those guys play the game is like watching wizardry.

Miss ya Philly...Weds have been tied up. Will catch up soon.

What continually amazes me is when I see a very good player totally overlook an obvious shot (a good one) in One Pocket. Some of the best safeties are little bunt shots where the cue ball rolls only a few inches. So many times I've seen players go for outrageous shots and overlook a simple safety that was right there.

There are other basic One Pocket moves and strategy (like banking balls into the correct side of the pack and not at your hole) that most all beginning to intermediate players know nothing about. I could go on and on but suffice to say that a little good instruction can go a long way in speeding up the learning curve. It won't help in the execution of shots but it will assist a player in not overlooking some good options.

P.S. When all else fails leave your opponent down table and straight in! That may sound obvious but I've seen good players overlook this option and play some crazy shot trying to get out of a trap.

I agree with you 100%. Move balls to your quadrant, long rail, short rail, set the trap, reserve the trap, reverse the table. Protect your balls. I could not figure that out without instruction. Know what to look for, leave straight in, separate and leave long, leave cue on rail, etc. I play with guys in my clubhouse....they turn the table over with the cue on their side of the stack and say I didn't leave anything...and I look for dead shot or simply move a ball or bump into the stack and push a ball my way... take my seat and watch their eyes. Tom's book is all about aggressive scoring, playing safe and trapping. This stuff has to be in the mindset... I have to have an instructor pound it into my head until it becomes a habit. I guess the player must themselves what do they want out of OnePocket...play it right or keep shooting balls up table for an hour plus. Do they want to know the theory, drills, staple moves or do they want to simply mimic a OnePocket game.

*pay me* $10 a game if I will explain my shot selection and tell him what he should do in response. It was a good session for both of us.

Would gladly do that with the right person....maybe $5 game or a dollar a ball....have an arrangement(time and whatever). I was going to Classic Billiards in Phoenixville, Pa to play Philly(and he is a fierce competitor, fun to play. )Good person to know. After Philly left I'd play the owner Jimmy Lawless. Jimmy is an extremely serious player, very tough...much better than I am. Generally killed me and would explain my short comings after the game. I definitely learned a few substantial things. Unfortunately life gets in way and I can't play as much as I would like to. I'd be there weekly.

I've seen that happen where I play. The 'pay me' part was when two guys gambled, one would learn from the other by losing. It never worked out..

That is exactly why I went to an instructor vs paying to watch and feel humiliated. However I'm at the stage where I'd like to find a cheap set so I can get table experience. I have the basics. If I grab a win I'm progressing. If I put up a good battle I'm satisfied. I have no unreal expectations....just want to learn the game. Is there a right way to get started?...sure is but find it...and if it's not working...change it.
Like anything else how do learn or improve if we can't figure it out. I go to an instructor. My stroke was nowhere after 50 years...Would run 3-6 balls and get stuck.. Got frustrated and hired Scott Lee...my runs have doubled, tripled. Gained confidence.
Currently working with Tom Wirth (1pocket). He is all about teaching how to play the game....from beginner to advanced. His passion is there. He is a true instructor.
Not looking to argue or debate what works for learning OnePocket. Every post here is good info. I commend the OP for his interest and opening the thread, I'd call this a great start.

 

[lfigueroa]

I've seen that happen where I play. The 'pay me' part was when two guys gambled, one would learn from the other by losing. It never worked out. The loser would eventually get tire of losing, and paying, and quit.
I have, over the years, read every available book about One Pocket, including Winning One Pocket, and Shots, Moves, & Strategies. I have also owned, at one time or another, all the good videos.
Lou, you and I both know that One Pocket isn't like any of other games in pool. It takes skill and commitment, with a big emphasis on commitment, and it's a long and drawn out one at that.
And, Helfert, you're only taking the high road on this. You should know better.

Yes, Tramp, 1pocket, takes a long time to learn. In fact I think you're always learning even after decades of play.

Lou Figueroa

 

[TRWpool]

HI all!
Lou, your last comment that One Pocket take a long time to learn but we all must accept that we will never learn it all is 100% on target. That is one of the many beauties of the game. If we maintain an interest in expanding our pool education the game will never get old. One Pocket offers such a wide variety of options partly because we all think and perform at different levels and must play within those limitations. That said, we can practice developing our mental skills with the help of instructors, videos, books, and discussions with others about the game. We can take some of the ideas to a table and work on our physical skills perfecting our pocketing skills and cue ball control, then apply this new found knowledge to our overall game.

There is no pool game as demanding as One Pocket. Unlike Nine Ball, or Straight pool where you more or less are playing against the game itself, One Pocket is very much a game of matching wits with an opponent. There will always be a need to play others of varying skill levels.

A way you guys might want to learn by playing better players without it costing you an arm and leg and yet get the most out of the better player you match up with is to play for $10.00 a game, or whatever but for every game your opponent gets ahead of you, he must spot you one ball. He wins the first game playing even and the next game he gives you 8 - 7. If he wins the second game, he now spots you 8 - 6. A third game and you now are getting 8 -5 and so on. In this way the two of you will reach a point where it is not feasible for him to continue winning games. Each time you win a game you must give back one ball from the handicap.

This gives both you and the better player incentive to play hard but helps to limit how much can be expected to be won or lost. He gets paid for providing a lesson and the weaker player gets his education at a reasonable rate and also enjoys having won a few games in the process.

Tom

 

[Tramp Steamer]

tramp
are you trying to say you cannot shorten the learning curve by getting the benefit of someone elses experience to open up your eyes and not have to re invent or find the reference to get better at one pocket??
c'mon man...

I assume by someone else, you mean a qualified (qualified by whom, by-the-way) BCA instructor, am I right?
Now, just for the sake of argument, let's say that One Pocket is this particular instructor's weakest game out of all the games he's qualified in. How good is he going to be for you? How is he going to help you think your way around the table if he's only marginally able to do it himself? How much money do you have to spend before you realize you've been screwed?
My main point is, and always has been, there is now easy way to develop the skills necessary to play good One Pocket, and if you have to pay someone to open your eyes, then what were they doing closed in the first place.
Like I've said before. Go into your local pool room and find some guys playing good One Pocket. Keep your mouth shut. Watch and learn.

 

[TRWpool]

I assume by someone else, you mean a qualified (qualified by whom, by-the-way) BCA instructor, am I right?
Now, just for the sake of argument, let's say that One Pocket is this particular instructor's weakest game out of all the games he's qualified in. How good is he going to be for you? How is he going to help you think your way around the table if he's only marginally able to do it himself? How much money do you have to spend before you realize you've been screwed?
My main point is, and always has been, there is now easy way to develop the skills necessary to play good One Pocket, and if you have to pay someone to open your eyes, then what were they doing closed in the first place.
Like I've said before. Go into your local pool room and find some guys playing good One Pocket. Keep your mouth shut. Watch and learn.

Mr. Tramp Steamer, It's like anything else my friend. If you do your homework you can find a qualified instructor to help you learn whatever you want to learn. If the BCA instructor's weakest game is One Pocket well he will in good conscience tell you that up front. If he is an honorable person he will try to steer you towards someone with the expertise that you require to learn the game correctly. This does not necessarily mean someone from BCA.

Your second point is also short on sound advice. it is not easy to simply "watch and learn" as you say. One Pocket can require some very subtle shots. Shots that without some explanation will be lost on the viewer. You are right in that it is helpful to sit and watch, but doing that at the exclusion of additional guidance will not get you far.

If you wanted to learn how to build a brick wall, would you go to a construction site and watch the brick layers and without having asked questions know all there is to building that wall? There is much to know about brick laying and how much more complicated is playing the game of One Pocket on a high level than building a wall?

Tom

 

[GoldCrown]

I assume by someone else, you mean a qualified (qualified by whom, by-the-way) BCA instructor, am I right?
Now, just for the sake of argument, let's say that One Pocket is this particular instructor's weakest game out of all the games he's qualified in.

Why would a person hire an instructor weak on the subject other than the home work and research was not done. Yes it does not click sometimes. But generally we look for a competent person to teach. It can be an A player and not a certified instructor if they know what and how to communicate. You have a negative regard for instructors. You said you have played for a long duration. Have you and can you teach? Do you have a planned course. Step 1-2-3 etc. Some swear by and some swear at instructors but I'd never tell someone not to try one if nothing else is working. The only people I know that did not like hiring an instructor were the ones that never practiced. We can argue this forever...we are not doing newbies any good. You are fortunate to have worked everything out on your own. Not everyone can figure out where step one is....I couldn't.
How do we conclude? There is no winner here. Just trying to help the OP out...by now he probably is rethinking 1P:killingme:

Mr. Tramp Steamer, It's like anything else my friend. If you do your homework you can find a qualified instructor to help you learn whatever you want to learn. If the BCA instructor's weakest game is One Pocket well he will in good conscience tell you that up front. If he is an honorable person he will try to steer you towards someone with the expertise that you require to learn the game correctly. This does not necessarily mean someone from BCA.

Your second point is also short on sound advice. it is not easy to simply "watch and learn" as you say. One Pocket can require some very subtle shots. Shots that without some explanation will be lost on the viewer. You are right in that it is helpful to sit and watch, but doing that at the exclusion of additional guidance will not get you far.

If you wanted to learn how to build a brick wall, would you go to a construction site and watch the brick layers and without having asked questions know all there is to building that wall? There is much to know about brick laying and how much more complicated is playing the game of One Pocket on a high level than building a wall?

Tom

I challenge anyone that ever saw you play or teach criticize your advice,

 

[Tramp Steamer]

Have it your way boys, and good luck. :thumbup:

 

[lfigueroa]

I believe that what Tramp is getting at is that "instructors," broadly speaking, are known to focus on the mechanics of the game, like stance, bridge, grip, and stroking. IOW, most of us don't think of 8ball or 9ball or 1pocket instructors, if any are even out there.

I agree that it can be extremely illuminating to watch two guys play good 1pocket. But it is also important to learn why shots are selected or not selected. John Coltrane once said the notes you don't play are just as important as the notes you do play. Same with 1pocket. And for that, someone's gotta be talking to you.

Maybe that's not an instructor but just a knowledge player who not only plays well but is able to articulate their thought process, when to shoot and when to duck, and how to execute certain shots that only seem to come up playing 1pocket.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Harold Smith]

I have a good book for guys wanting to learn the ins and outs of One Pocket. Its called " Upscale One Pocket" by Jack H. Koehler. Lots of good info in the book.---Smitty

 

[bbb]

I assume by someone else, you mean a qualified (qualified by whom, by-the-way) BCA instructor, am I right?
Now, just for the sake of argument, let's say that One Pocket is this particular instructor's weakest game out of all the games he's qualified in. How good is he going to be for you? How is he going to help you think your way around the table if he's only marginally able to do it himself? How much money do you have to spend before you realize you've been screwed?
My main point is, and always has been, there is now easy way to develop the skills necessary to play good One Pocket, and if you have to pay someone to open your eyes, then what were they doing closed in the first place.
Like I've said before. Go into your local pool room and find some guys playing good One Pocket. Keep your mouth shut. Watch and learn.

lets say you weres looking for a ONE POCKET INSTRUCTOR
someone who knows the game in and out and plays at a high level
if you think weekly or more often lessons with tom wirth /billy incardona/grady mattews when alive (R.I.P grady) or someone similar
wouldnt help your game
YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS...

 

[GoldCrown]

I believe that what Tramp is getting at is that "instructors," broadly speaking, are known to focus on the mechanics of the game, like stance, bridge, grip, and stroking. IOW, most of us don't think of 8ball or 9ball or 1pocket instructors, if any are even out there.

I agree that it can be extremely illuminating to watch two guys play good 1pocket. But it is also important to learn why shots are selected or not selected. Miles Davis once said the notes you don't play are just as important as the notes you do play. Same with 1pocket. And for that, someone's gotta be talking to you.

Maybe that's not an instructor but just a knowledge player who not only plays well but is able to articulate their thought process, when to shoot and when to duck, and how to execute certain shots that only seem to come up playing 1pocket.

Lou Figueroa

Like to hear how you learned. Are happy with your level. What would you do to improve?

 

[bbb]

Like to hear how you learned. Are happy with your level. What would you do to improve?

lou has written
about his lessons with dallas west and ray martin to improve his straight pool
he felt they helped his game alot
as i remember
is that true lou??
the lessons you took helped you...right??
just askin
if so then why wouldnt onepocket lessons from a pro 1p player help??
just askin
:smile:

 

[lfigueroa]

Like to hear how you learned. Are happy with your level. What would you do to improve?

I learned, when I was new to the game, by losing to everyone I played.

When I moved to St. Louis, some 25 years ago, I had never played 1pocket. Just 9ball and straight pool, (with a four year hiatus of bar table 8ball up in Montana). I was on the tail end of a ten year layoff from pool when I started playing again and I quickly found out that 1pocket was all anyone would gamble at here. So, I decided I'd learn.



I hated it. I'd lose to everybody: $200 sets lost to guys like Bid Ed, Butch, Iranian Billy, Robbie, and Kramer; $50 a game to Big Jake. $75 sets to Darmen, $100 sets to Mustache John, Terry, Jeremy, and Kip. $25 sets to Bill and Ralph. I couldn’t stand it, loathed it. All the bumping, nipping and tucking. Sometimes for what seemed like an eternity. Shot after shot after shot. And here's the worst part: I was losing to white haired old men and fat good ol' boys, and even young kids half my age.



And, the game would get me out of stroke. All the shots at pocket speed - laying up balls. Twisting and spinning balls. And the brutal realization that I never knew what the *right* shot was. And then, the even more brutal realization that even if I recognized the right shot, years of 14.1 and 9ball hadn't prepared me for so many of the shots I needed to be able to execute at 1pocket. These guys were giving me 10-7 and feeding me a lie that I actually believed: "I can only give you a couple of balls 'cause you shoot so straight" and then robbing me.



For months I would play, and lose, and curse the game. But then, I started to learn the shots. I would watch Accu-Stats, and began recognizing the *right* shots, the correct strategy. I’d occasionally win. The spots became smaller but still I would mutter, "I hate this game."

"

Then, I started to book a few winners here and there, and more and more of the guys had to play me even. I started to change my opinion, "Maybe this game isn't so bad. "

Soon there after, I had to start giving up weight to get a game. My opinion moved a bit more, "Hey, I kinda like this game."

"

Then the ultimate: the guy who had started out giving me 10-7, refused to play a couple of years later when I offered him 11-7.

 I really like this game now

From there it was playing in perhaps a half dozen US Opens, many, many DCC 1pocket events (and actually cashing in a few), other 1pocket tournaments such as those at Red Shoes in Chicago, and Shooters in Olathe. There was time spent with Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook, at Airway in OH.

As to getting better and improving -- the main thing is to always pay attention and trying to learn no matter whom you're playing. Am I happy with my level of play?

Sure.

For the time I put into the game nowadays, I play OK. After Gail came down with cancer a half dozen years ago (and is fully OK now) I don't play on weekends anymore and I don't close down the pool room at 3 am like I used to. I bunt them a round a few hours each day during the week. I came to learn what's really important in life. I'm good with all of it.



Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

lou has written
about his lessons with dallas west and ray martin to improve his straight pool
he felt they helped his game alot
as i remember
is that true lou??
the lessons you took helped you...right??
just askin
if so then why wouldnt onepocket lessons from a pro 1p player help??
just askin
:smile:

The lessons with Ray and Dallas, and with Steve Cook, were exactly about what I mentioned earlier: getting inside their heads and having them explain what they would shoot next and why. I wrote all those up and anyone with passing interest can read about my time spent with them.

But those guys are/were all *legends.* Champions. World beaters. What they had to say is/was gilt-edged stuff. That does not mean I would take lessons from just anyone. And oh, BTW, the title "1pocket pro" is thrown around pretty casually nowadays. Doesn't necessarily mean squadoush.

Lou Figueroa

 

[GoldCrown]

lou has written
about his lessons with dallas west and ray martin to improve his straight pool
he felt they helped his game alot
as i remember
is that true lou??
the lessons you took helped you...right??
just askin
if so then why wouldnt onepocket lessons from a pro 1p player help??
just askin
:smile:

I might try 3c someday. Have no idea what and where to start.... Maybe I'll take lessons.
Regardless everyone had good points on this thread, Everyone's physical and mental game level is different. I am in no way telling anyone How To Get Rolling. Only suggesting the route I took. Everything I learned was from instructors. I have no "A" playing friends or anyone that can spell things out. I do play with a run out shooter...he cannot teach a dog to beg. If I had to start over again the only thing I would do differently would have been to start years ago...but it's never too late to learn.

 

[GoldCrown]

I learned, when I was new to the game, by losing to everyone I played.

When I moved to St. Louis, some 25 years ago, I had never played 1pocket. Just 9ball and straight pool, (with a four year hiatus of bar table 8ball up in Montana). I was on the tail end of a ten year layoff from pool when I started playing again and I quickly found out that 1pocket was all anyone would gamble at here. So, I decided I'd learn.



I hated it. I'd lose to everybody: $200 sets lost to guys like Bid Ed, Butch, Iranian Billy, Robbie, and Kramer; $50 a game to Big Jake. $75 sets to Darmen, $100 sets to Mustache John, Terry, Jeremy, and Kip. $25 sets to Bill and Ralph. I couldn’t stand it, loathed it. All the bumping, nipping and tucking. Sometimes for what seemed like an eternity. Shot after shot after shot. And here's the worst part: I was losing to white haired old men and fat good ol' boys, and even young kids half my age.



And, the game would get me out of stroke. All the shots at pocket speed - laying up balls. Twisting and spinning balls. And the brutal realization that I never knew what the *right* shot was. And then, the even more brutal realization that even if I recognized the right shot, years of 14.1 and 9ball hadn't prepared me for so many of the shots I needed to be able to execute at 1pocket. These guys were giving me 10-7 and feeding me a lie that I actually believed: "I can only give you a couple of balls 'cause you shoot so straight" and then robbing me.



For months I would play, and lose, and curse the game. But then, I started to learn the shots. I would watch Accu-Stats, and began recognizing the *right* shots, the correct strategy. I’d occasionally win. The spots became smaller but still I would mutter, "I hate this game."

"

Then, I started to book a few winners here and there, and more and more of the guys had to play me even. I started to change my opinion, "Maybe this game isn't so bad. "

Soon there after, I had to start giving up weight to get a game. My opinion moved a bit more, "Hey, I kinda like this game."

"

Then the ultimate: the guy who had started out giving me 10-7, refused to play a couple of years later when I offered him 11-7.

 I really like this game now

From there it was playing in perhaps a half dozen US Opens, many, many DCC 1pocket events (and actually cashing in a few), other 1pocket tournaments such as those at Red Shoes in Chicago, and Shooters in Olathe. There was time spent with Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook, at Airway in OH.

As to getting better and improving -- the main thing is to always pay attention and trying to learn no matter whom you're playing. Am I happy with my level of play?

Sure.

For the time I put into the game nowadays, I play OK. After Gail came down with cancer a half dozen years ago (and is fully OK now) I don't play on weekends anymore and I don't close down the pool room at 3 am like I used to. I bunt them a round a few hours each day during the week. I came to learn what's really important in life. I'm good with all of it.



Lou Figueroa

You were fortunate to be in a OnePocket setting. You could only get better in that environment. Glad your wife is ok.

 

[Threat]

Yes, you can definitely learn a lot, and greatly reduce the learning curve in the game of one pocket by taking lessons from an extremely knowledgeable one pocket player/instructor who is also a great communicator. The person who I know personally that fits that description is azb.member 1 Pocket Ghost.

I have been going to Chris's Billiard's in Chicago for about 40 years now, and being as how that's also where he plays, I've known and been a friend of Bruce's aka the 1 Pocket Ghost for all of that time. I would say that he knows more about the game of One Pocket than anyone else I know, and he's regarded that way by most all of the players at Chris's. Many players there have learned and/or taken lessons from him.

I know that Pat Johnson, (another old friend of mine from Chris's Billiards) is a long time student of the Ghost's and I recalled that he once posted up here on the site re. his lessons with the Ghost. I dug up that post - here it is:

1 pocket is a thinking person's game, so I'm lucky to have a world class one pocket thinker to help me learn it. I've taken lessons with 1 Pocket Ghost quite a few times now, and I'm always more impressed than before with the depth of his knowledge and insights about the game.

Last night was no exception - as we often do, we went through some games shot by shot, stopping and analyzing each situation's opportunities and risks before taking each shot - sometimes trying out one option to illustrate how it actually worked out (Ghost is uncannily accurate in his predictions) and then replacing the balls to try another.

Ghost could easily go on for 15 minutes or more about each situation, showing me multiple shots and moves each time when I struggled to find one or two. And he doesn't just see the options; he also sees their strengths and weaknesses in great detail and can articulate clearly how to rank them from best to worst and why the situation favors one over another. I don't just learn shots from him (although his shot creativity is one of the most fun things about him); I learn how to deeply think about the game.

Lots of players can play the game well, but it's a rare one who plays well and can also teach and explain the hows and whys of the game to a banger like me. I don't think he particularly wants me promoting him here, but I wanted to point him out to you all for your own education - so that you might pay a little closer attention when he adds his opinion to a 1 pocket thread. It'll be worth your time. Or maybe contact him for a lesson.

pj
chgo

 

[SJDinPHX]

tramp
of course a lesson with efren doesnt get you to play like efren
thats a no brainer
but lessons with a qualified player can help you fast forward the learning curve
imho
one pocket is a blend of knowledge and execution
to me
execution skills take time on the table and practice..thats a given
but being at the table with a pro and having him explain what to do in any situation
is experience you dont get watching you tube or "playing better players"
" you dont know what you dont know "
because you are at the table and he explains the weakness in your choice
and why this shot is better
it seems to "stick " better at the table
beleive it or not
many time the better shot IS in the skill set of the student
THEY JUST DIDNT SEE IT
sometimes its above thier paygrade and they have to practice to learn it
so i wouldnt discount the instructor path
for the record
i take lessons from tom wirth
(not as regularly as goldcrown...:angry: )
and he has helped my onepocket game ALOT
thanks tom.....:thumbup:
p,s. if you dont have his book BUY IT
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5224073&postcount=1

I agree Larry, Tom's book is a great step up to learning the game..So is joining One Pocket.org, and soaking up the WWYD's..However, there is really NO substitute for learning the game, than matching up and playing a really good, knowledgable 1P player, like Frost, for a few $$$, or all you can afford! (key words, match up.)

I think a person can learn more, in just a very few sessions, than all the DVD's and books you can buy!.. Also, I'm sure you know, that with the exception of TW, very few quality instructors are really geared exclusively for one pocket..(in fact, I only know of one)

PS..Case in point, Bernie Pettipiece..My favorite protege..He was a sponge! :wink:

 

[SandFox]

These are some of the most helpful and well thought post I have seen. Thanks everyone you all went above and beyond to give me what I wanted and more. Cannot wait to start playing this weekend.

Thanks! Sandfox