I have noticed that Justin is playing extremely slow. He gets down on a shot and gets back up off it sometimes 4 or 5 times. I watched him take as long to shoot a simple straight back bank as it took Skylar to run the entire rack after Justin missed the bank. He seems very indecisive on every shot. I wonder if it is because he is nervous or what is causing him to play this slow.
Justin Bergman slow playing
- Thread starter 9ball mike
- Start date
That style of play must be pretty effective for Justin he won the tournament :smile:
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45 second shot clock. No extensions. If you don't shoot in the 45 seconds, spot one up and you're on one.
I'd say he was dropping the anchor on Dechaine.....can't let a guy like him set the pace and start running.
that sounds like a fair assessement
A pain to watch..
I find real slow players a pain to watch and even more of a pain to play against,
I also think some of the pros do the up and down and walk around the table again thing to stress their opponent.
45 seconds and no extensions is a reasonable time frame for shooting a shot.
Air stroking, lets limit it to a thousand a match,,,,,,,,geese!
I find real slow players a pain to watch and even more of a pain to play against,
I also think some of the pros do the up and down and walk around the table again thing to stress their opponent.
45 seconds and no extensions is a reasonable time frame for shooting a shot.
Air stroking, lets limit it to a thousand a match,,,,,,,,geese!
I noticed that when Bergman played Skyler the first time. Perhaps he's Johnny 2.0
"Chess clock" is the answer. Some shots take a lot longer to sort out thatn 45 seconds. Some should take about 15. It would all even out but you only have X # of minutes for the whole match. If you don't finish when your clock runs out, you're put on a 20 second shot clock where you give up ball in hand if you fail to shoot in 20 seconds.
...
He missed the bank and it cost him the rack and may have been pivotal for the set...so clearly it wasn't an easy shot, or didn't feel easy to him at the moment.
One thing to keep in mind is this- is a tournament a 3-7 day event, or is it a 1 minute event?
I've had many tournaments where I take off two days from work, drive for 6-7 hours, play Friday night, breeze through some Saturday matches, then find myself in the final four where if I go two and out from there I take 5th, and if I win the match and am hitting them well I am within striking distance of the win. Normally 5th place is out of the calcutta and means I'm down for the weekend, but winning this match would mean I'm ahead and free rolling on a good score. Not to mention I might be playing a name player that would be a good win for my confidence, and someone that I might play against in other tournaments in which a good track record could yield an advantage in future matches. During a match like this most of it might be routine, but there might be a few times that are critical. Turning points in the match. Coming with a hard shot versus dogging it and pouring gas on my opponents fire.
When shots like that come up, sometimes to me it seems like a tournament win or a tournament loss comes down to one shot. And when I feel those times are there, I will darn sure put the time into that shot that reflects the 5 day and $1,500 investment I made.
I'm disappointed more players don't speak up in the defense of 'slow' players. In my experience these players aren't unbearably slow. Sure, I've played players that truly take 1+ minutes per shot on routine bar box 8 ball layouts, and that can get fatiguing. But that is the exception. Ralf Soquet is not slow. He is deliberate. Same with Justin. Same with many other top players.
Saying you wish there was a chess clock is wishing to play a different game, might as well play speed pool. The game we play is the game we play, time within reason isn't a resource that's limited, so Justin who is trying to make a living at the game (and doing a darn good job) is using his resources to put in his best performance.
I don't believe I've EVER played a player that slows down deliberately to shark me, I believe that is all projection from players that get irritated and assume the worst. Maybe they slow down to avoid feeling like they don't belong at the table, or to assert themselves, because they've been sitting so long they need to re-acclimate, but again, that is about them playing well, not trying to shark anyone. But even if I'm wrong it is within the rules and is the way the game has been played since inception.
Bottom line, he took his time in a clearly tough spot, he is a deliberate player because that is how he was able to bring his game to a world class level, and the game we are playing is the game we've always played. Everyone has a right to their opinion so you are all welcome to yours, but I am welcome to mine, and personally I think people that let pace of play tilt them should put their energy into improving their own mental game rather than throwing stones at our top pros.
He missed the bank and it cost him the rack and may have been pivotal for the set...so clearly it wasn't an easy shot, or didn't feel easy to him at the moment.
One thing to keep in mind is this- is a tournament a 3-7 day event, or is it a 1 minute event?
I've had many tournaments where I take off two days from work, drive for 6-7 hours, play Friday night, breeze through some Saturday matches, then find myself in the final four where if I go two and out from there I take 5th, and if I win the match and am hitting them well I am within striking distance of the win. Normally 5th place is out of the calcutta and means I'm down for the weekend, but winning this match would mean I'm ahead and free rolling on a good score. Not to mention I might be playing a name player that would be a good win for my confidence, and someone that I might play against in other tournaments in which a good track record could yield an advantage in future matches. During a match like this most of it might be routine, but there might be a few times that are critical. Turning points in the match. Coming with a hard shot versus dogging it and pouring gas on my opponents fire.
When shots like that come up, sometimes to me it seems like a tournament win or a tournament loss comes down to one shot. And when I feel those times are there, I will darn sure put the time into that shot that reflects the 5 day and $1,500 investment I made.
I'm disappointed more players don't speak up in the defense of 'slow' players. In my experience these players aren't unbearably slow. Sure, I've played players that truly take 1+ minutes per shot on routine bar box 8 ball layouts, and that can get fatiguing. But that is the exception. Ralf Soquet is not slow. He is deliberate. Same with Justin. Same with many other top players.
Saying you wish there was a chess clock is wishing to play a different game, might as well play speed pool. The game we play is the game we play, time within reason isn't a resource that's limited, so Justin who is trying to make a living at the game (and doing a darn good job) is using his resources to put in his best performance.
I don't believe I've EVER played a player that slows down deliberately to shark me, I believe that is all projection from players that get irritated and assume the worst. Maybe they slow down to avoid feeling like they don't belong at the table, or to assert themselves, because they've been sitting so long they need to re-acclimate, but again, that is about them playing well, not trying to shark anyone. But even if I'm wrong it is within the rules and is the way the game has been played since inception.
Bottom line, he took his time in a clearly tough spot, he is a deliberate player because that is how he was able to bring his game to a world class level, and the game we are playing is the game we've always played. Everyone has a right to their opinion so you are all welcome to yours, but I am welcome to mine, and personally I think people that let pace of play tilt them should put their energy into improving their own mental game rather than throwing stones at our top pros.
Ishooteem69
I GOT THE GOLD !
He must have been watching the players from Taiwan LOL. I have noticed Ko pin Yi does this a lot and so does his brother and other players on the team. Considering that they have perhaps the best team in the world there may be something to it
.I understand if there is a shot that requires much thought. Maybe a few in a match even. When I hear slow play, that means the player is consistently taking forever many times through the match. If that is the case, I pretty much refuse to watch, as it makes the game boring as hell, and almost unwatchable in my view. There are a few pros that play really slow consistently and I just choose not to watch them, or pay to see them play.
Whatever Justin is doing it is really working well he won the Memphis Open a few weeks ago he won the 10 ball event in Vegas and now he is in the semi finals of the 9 ball event in my opinion he is the 2nd best American player.
I hope he makes team USA :thumbup:
justinb386
Banned
That is just Bergmans style of playing (doing so many air strokes, when shooting). I think that is the way he has always played. I like the slow and controlled style of play. Bergman is not that slow either in my opinion (compared to many other players that most would consider to be slow players). I hope that Mark Wilson puts him on the Mosconi Cup team, if he does not earn enough points to make the top 3. He is really great.
They never said he wasn't a great player or that he wasn't playing great.But he was taking an awfully long time between relatively routine shots. Can't argue with the results but you can argue that it wasn't overly fun to watch. He was basically lining up every ball on the table after every made shot. It was really kind of odd.
I won't belabor the point on the women's matches but they were doing the same thing and still completely missing shots/position which makes it excruciating. Granted, the commentary probably went over the top, but it was tough to watch.
However I do think the commentators made a very valid point that Justin is not going to be able to go through all his idiosyncratic routines during the Mosconi Cup with a 30 second shot clock. Wouldn't you agree with that point?
I haven't watched this USBTC but I watched the last CSI event, and what I noticed is that Justin B started out slow and got faster as he worked through the rack, as there was less to think about. So it would look something like this:
First shot after break: 60 seconds
Next shot: 45 sec.
Next: 30 sec.
Next: 20 sec
Next: 10 sec.
Last couple of shots: 5 sec. each
That makes sense to me - plan in the beginning, and then speed up as your choices and problems are reduced. I don't think his average shot time was slow.
First shot after break: 60 seconds
Next shot: 45 sec.
Next: 30 sec.
Next: 20 sec
Next: 10 sec.
Last couple of shots: 5 sec. each
That makes sense to me - plan in the beginning, and then speed up as your choices and problems are reduced. I don't think his average shot time was slow.
I'd agree with that, and makes perfectly good sense. And i've seen him play plenty before and it was similar to his usual routine.
But last night, triple those figures. At least. Who knows, like the commentators said, he might not even know he's doing it
Very well stated - I agree
