Thinner shaft more likely to warp?
- Thread starter michael4
- Start date
Imo, not necessarily. It depends on the wood itself. I've seen snooker cues at 9mm that doesn't warp at all even exposed to heat.
No. Warping is a function of a push-pull of the wood fibers as they react to temp and humidity changes. Almost all wood reacts; the question is does the length of the wood react in the same way? and does it return to "normal" or do some parts stay pushed/pulled while other parts return to normal. (Imagine one side of the wood remaining in an expanded position while the other side returns to normal -- viola, you've got a warp.)
The thickness of the wood doesn't make an appreciable difference. I've got 1/4" boards that are as flat as the day I milled them...and 2" boards that are warped beyond recognition. Same wood.
The thickness of the wood doesn't make an appreciable difference. I've got 1/4" boards that are as flat as the day I milled them...and 2" boards that are warped beyond recognition. Same wood.
"Thinner shaft more likely to warp? "
Yes of course.
All other things being EQUAL.
Take it to the extreme and ask your self if you had two pieces of wood, one is
1/16 of an inch wide by 8 feet long and the other is
1 foot wide by 8 feet long.
Which one - all other things being equal - is more likely to warp?
Definitely the 1/16th inch.
Especially if you leave it standing up against a wall.
Now take that into a shaft diameter say 13 mm vs 12.50 and yes the 12.50 is
more is technically more likely to warp - all other things being equal.
For example if you turned down a 13mm shaft to 12.5 the shaft is not more likely to warp.
However little it is, it is now more likely to warp.
For example if you leave it standing at an angle up against a wall.
Yes of course.
All other things being EQUAL.
Take it to the extreme and ask your self if you had two pieces of wood, one is
1/16 of an inch wide by 8 feet long and the other is
1 foot wide by 8 feet long.
Which one - all other things being equal - is more likely to warp?
Definitely the 1/16th inch.
Especially if you leave it standing up against a wall.
Now take that into a shaft diameter say 13 mm vs 12.50 and yes the 12.50 is
more is technically more likely to warp - all other things being equal.
For example if you turned down a 13mm shaft to 12.5 the shaft is not more likely to warp.
However little it is, it is now more likely to warp.
For example if you leave it standing at an angle up against a wall.
Well, snooker cues are made of ash which is a bit stiffer and many have a 'milk-bottle taper', that is they're only thin at the very end of the cue. They tend to be very resistent to warping. English pool (blackball) cues are a bit different, they have a more delicate taper and tip around 8mm, and those are a little more prone to warping.
As far as maple American pool cues are concerned, I've had two skinny shafts go wonky on me within a few months. One was an 11.75mm Pechauer pro taper that warped beyond playability in a very short time, and I should have known it was coming because the wood was so soft it picked up dings from day 1 no matter how much caution was used. The other was a Katana Bushido, 11.5mm with a pro taper. It came from the factory with a slight wobble that amplified over a few months but was still playable and I didn't mind it, but I lost that when my case was stolen. I bought the Bushido again and the new one is dead straight and I don't anticipate having any problems with it. I have an 11.75mm 'standard taper' (short pro taper) Lucasi skinny as well and that has stayed very straight.
So you shouldn't have a problem as long as care was used in selecting the wood for the shaft, with a tight, even grain, and care was taken when turning the shaft.
bdorman said:
So imagine you had taken one of those warp-prone 2" boards and turned two shafts from it, one a 13mm conical taper, and one an 11mm pro taper. Would you expect the they both warp the same amount?
I really think, yes, a skinnier shaft is more prone to warping especially if it has a long thin taper. As careful as a cuebuilder may be in selecting a cut of maple with a good straight grain, if the shaft does happen to contain a streak warp-prone grain in it that the cuebuilder was unable to detect, the more flexible shaft is going to warp more readily. Assuming the wood contains only a small defect and the whole board it was cut from is not warp-prone, I think that small defect will affect a thin shaft more readily than a thicker one. I don't know, I'd be interested to hear anecdotes from builders who have turned out the full range of sizes from the skinniest pro tapers to house cues, to see what's what.
Of course, if you abuse a cue, the skinnier shaft is always going to show its abuse more readily than a thicker one...
Edit: I also wonder if maybe skinnier shafts might be more prone to warping because, assuming they're turned from the same blanks, they may end up going through more turning cycles without adequate rest and drying to get them down which leaves stresses in the wood that wouldn't be there in a thicker taper.... any ideas on this?
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Milk bottle taper
Its Called a ( Compound Taper ).
Are you sure you know what you are talking about ?
Its Called a ( Compound Taper ).
Are you sure you know what you are talking about ?
Well given I have multiple snooker cues and one that was custom made to my specifications, yes. Some people refer to a 'milk-bottle' profile, a specific compound taper, indicating that the first inch or two of the shaft has the most severe taper rise, with the 9-10mm tip sharply rising to a 12-14 mm shaft diameter.... the shaft thickens almost immediately so far forward that it should never pass over your bridge hand which leaves the remainder of the shaft being comfortably thicker with a gentle constant taper rise. (While this stiff design yields less action it keeps the taper smooth all the way back to the joint, important when you're bridging long, stretching far out on to the table to reach a shot).
'Compound taper' can refer to things like the Mezz WX900 and Predator Z3, not to mention blackball cues. where most of the shaft is skinnier with and the abrupt change in taper occurs much further back on the shaft, well after your where your bridge hand is expected to touch in normal play. While both these shafts and 'milk-bottle' shafts are technically compound tapers, they are really opposite ways of getting down to a small tip while getting less taper rise through the section of the shaft where you usually bridge.
Tapers
I guess someone doesn't need to know the exact names of some of these tapers .
But if you want people to believe that you are a expert in the field knowing about cues and shafts then using the correct names for the different tapers a cue has is to be expected.
The words milk bottle taper is a new one for me .
I guess someone doesn't need to know the exact names of some of these tapers .
But if you want people to believe that you are a expert in the field knowing about cues and shafts then using the correct names for the different tapers a cue has is to be expected.
The words milk bottle taper is a new one for me .
I have about 30 shafts not one is with out a least a taper roll , Iv straighten some that were worse buy taking a 1x2 2 ft long drilling a hole in it the size of the tip and put it on a closet shelf weighted down
Then I boiled a kettle till steaming and ran the shaft over it from the the start of the taper to about 4 in from the tip for 4-5 mins or so , screw it back on the butt stick it up through the hole and put a few wraps of electrical tape on it and let it hang for a few days and they have come out pretty straight
I would not suggest this with a laminated shaft though , haven't done this in yrs I'm going to find one I got that has a bad roll and just hang it and see what the results are
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Then I boiled a kettle till steaming and ran the shaft over it from the the start of the taper to about 4 in from the tip for 4-5 mins or so , screw it back on the butt stick it up through the hole and put a few wraps of electrical tape on it and let it hang for a few days and they have come out pretty straight
I would not suggest this with a laminated shaft though , haven't done this in yrs I'm going to find one I got that has a bad roll and just hang it and see what the results are
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Short answer is Yes, becuase there is less material there.
Warpage in general is because the grain of the wood has internal stress. This varies greatly between wood species and grain density and mostly moisture content. As the wood dries, the internal stress intensifies as the wood is not flexible anymore and will crack. Think dry leather. This is more evident when you look at thinner materials. Think of a stack of pencils. You can easily break one, but not so much a stack. Heat and low humidity can drive out the water in wood. This is why you dont want to leave your cue in the trunk of your car during hot weather. Good Luck.
Some people might say they do leave their cue in the trunks with little effect. Usually the grains are sealed with a sealer, and this helps keep the moisture from leaving the shaft.
Warpage in general is because the grain of the wood has internal stress. This varies greatly between wood species and grain density and mostly moisture content. As the wood dries, the internal stress intensifies as the wood is not flexible anymore and will crack. Think dry leather. This is more evident when you look at thinner materials. Think of a stack of pencils. You can easily break one, but not so much a stack. Heat and low humidity can drive out the water in wood. This is why you dont want to leave your cue in the trunk of your car during hot weather. Good Luck.
Some people might say they do leave their cue in the trunks with little effect. Usually the grains are sealed with a sealer, and this helps keep the moisture from leaving the shaft.
