APA 8 Ball World Championship

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's 6 hours long so I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but first off you have a 4 playing a 3, and the crowd is bigger than the finals of the recent World 9 Ball.

Maybe the APA is on to something. I'm assuming it's like this every year?

Perhaps professionals don't need a pro tour. Maybe they just need a pro league :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFdFrC0EoCk
 
I was going to watch to see if I can run with these guys, but
the hell with barbox.
 
and the crowd is bigger than the finals of the recent World 9 Ball.

Well, that's certainly not a high bar to beat! Hope the World 9 Ball gets their stuff together in the future...spectators AND streaming.
 
It's 6 hours long so I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but first off you have a 4 playing a 3, and the crowd is bigger than the finals of the recent World 9 Ball.

Maybe the APA is on to something. I'm assuming it's like this every year?

Perhaps professionals don't need a pro tour. Maybe they just need a pro league :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFdFrC0EoCk

Have you tried watching a full game of them playing? My skill level just went down by 3 letters.
 
Have you tried watching a full game of them playing? My skill level just went down by 3 letters.

Ha I felt exactly the same. I wanted to stab myself watching the 2-4s play,so I skipped to the 6.. Wow he didn't even have C level cue ball control and I felt myself getting dumber with every shot selection I had to watch. Far weaker than what I saw in APA on the east coast.

It is, after all, APA, where the majority of the field are very inconsistent performers so who gets to the final has some major luck involved. Who knows, maybe these teams got to their regional in the first place because they had a small local league with teams that didn't care and lost points via forfeit, late dues, etc... Either the skill levels vary wildly by region or many of these players were very new and only ranked up to 5 or 6 just before or at Vegas and spent most of the season as an underranked 3 or 4. Because that is appalling shooting for a 5 or 6. Where I come from a 5 or 6 either is sure to pocket a ball but weak on position play, or actually has good positional instincts but eyes bigger than their stomachs and will make execution errors when they try to play the shot the A leveler would play but their stroke is undisciplined. These guys were all around weak in all aspects...
 
It's 6 hours long so I doubt I'll watch the whole thing, but first off you have a 4 playing a 3, and the crowd is bigger than the finals of the recent World 9 Ball.

Maybe the APA is on to something. I'm assuming it's like this every year?

Perhaps professionals don't need a pro tour. Maybe they just need a pro league :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFdFrC0EoCk

They tried the pro league....remember Bonus Ball? :p
 
In my area a six would be a low to mid c. A 7 can range from low to mid B up to a master.

In my area 7's range from high C players to A+/Open level, and across the country there are plenty of 7's that play pro speed. I think when you are a C+ level player, you are pretty much a 7 on a bar box in the APA. Nothing wrong with that. I think the C+ player is like the golfer that shoots in the 90's I'm guessing. Also nothing wrong with that.

KMRUNOUT
 
I watched a little bit of the first match. Slow, even by my standards, and I come off as methodical, lol.

Those two seem to be about the middle of the pack as far as their skill levels, compared to players here. Of course that's not taking into account that we play on 9's here, and those two are playing with the pressure of being in the finals, in front of 200 people. Still, if they played like that here, they would not be in the top half of their skill level here, maybe about halfway.

It would be interesting seeing them play on the 9' Diamonds we play on half the time. (The other half of the time we're still on 9's, just not quite as tight as the Diamonds. A few Brunswicks that are generous, and some Oldhausens that are not.)

They were in the finals tho, give them that. The best place a team from here got was low 100's, I think. First level of cashing, whatever level that is.

Interesting.
 
i watched the whole thing, an hour at a time while exercising. I was surprised out of 713 teams that those 2 were in the finals. I felt our apa team could beat either one. But then again, we are hit and miss some nights too. But i enjoyed watching it.
 
Any tournament I have won involved some lucky rolls and opponents playing poorly along the way. When in the finals, even the pros can look like an apa 6 sometimes.
 
i watched the whole thing, an hour at a time while exercising. I was surprised out of 713 teams that those 2 were in the finals. I felt our apa team could beat either one. But then again, we are hit and miss some nights too. But i enjoyed watching it.

Haven't watched it myself, but it's worth noting that by the time these teams reached the final match, they'd been pretty much continuously for the past few days, so the quality of their performance would definitely be impacted (some for the better, some for the worse) by being under high pressure and fatigue for that long a period.
 
Ha I felt exactly the same. I wanted to stab myself watching the 2-4s play,so I skipped to the 6.. Wow he didn't even have C level cue ball control and I felt myself getting dumber with every shot selection I had to watch. Far weaker than what I saw in APA on the east coast.

It is, after all, APA, where the majority of the field are very inconsistent performers so who gets to the final has some major luck involved. Who knows, maybe these teams got to their regional in the first place because they had a small local league with teams that didn't care and lost points via forfeit, late dues, etc... Either the skill levels vary wildly by region or many of these players were very new and only ranked up to 5 or 6 just before or at Vegas and spent most of the season as an underranked 3 or 4. Because that is appalling shooting for a 5 or 6. Where I come from a 5 or 6 either is sure to pocket a ball but weak on position play, or actually has good positional instincts but eyes bigger than their stomachs and will make execution errors when they try to play the shot the A leveler would play but their stroke is undisciplined. These guys were all around weak in all aspects...

I started a thread a lil.while back.wondering about different level of skill from region to region .

The reason I started it is because over the Las year I have had people from other regions join my team. With out fail they were all over rated when compared to players in my area.

You can read all about the first 2 people in that thread and I currently have 2 new ones this session.

I know full well that every one has good nights and bad nights and 2 matches are no enough to make a very accurate assumption of their playing ability..

But just like the first 2 I got these 2 have not impressed me at all. The guy is a 6/5 and played solely on 9 footers where we play mostly on valleys. So far he has lost 2 8 ball matches in a row vs other 6's by scores of 5-0 and 5-3. He did manage to win 9 ball last night vs a 4 in 20 innings.

The girl is from Rhode island and is a 3/4. She seems to be a capable 3 but is overrated as a 4 in 9 ball. So far she has played a 2/2 and a 3/2 . She won 8 ball 2-0 vs the 2 and won 9 ball by 1 point vs the same 2. She then lost 8 ball 2-1 vs the 3 and Los 9 ball vs the same player who is a 2 in 9 ball.
 
I started a thread a lil.while back.wondering about different level of skill from region to region .

The reason I started it is because over the Las year I have had people from other regions join my team. With out fail they were all over rated when compared to players in my area.

You can read all about the first 2 people in that thread and I currently have 2 new ones this session.

I know full well that every one has good nights and bad nights and 2 matches are no enough to make a very accurate assumption of their playing ability..

But just like the first 2 I got these 2 have not impressed me at all. The guy is a 6/5 and played solely on 9 footers where we play mostly on valleys. So far he has lost 2 8 ball matches in a row vs other 6's by scores of 5-0 and 5-3. He did manage to win 9 ball last night vs a 4 in 20 innings.

The girl is from Rhode island and is a 3/4. She seems to be a capable 3 but is overrated as a 4 in 9 ball. So far she has played a 2/2 and a 3/2 . She won 8 ball 2-0 vs the 2 and won 9 ball by 1 point vs the same 2. She then lost 8 ball 2-1 vs the 3 and Los 9 ball vs the same player who is a 2 in 9 ball.

Not to disparage APA, but anything below SL7 you shouldn't expect talented CB control and decision making on anything close to a consistent basis.

I will say that I play far better on 9ft Diamonds than I do on the smallest Valleys and it's true that some people do have a problem adjusting to having less space to work with for creative position play.

But the bigger problem I think in the APA skill level 4-6 range, is the weird split where people are held back on large tables by their stroke, and held back on small tables mostly by their break, followed by knowledgeable pattern play.

I can certainly imagine a 6 playing okay on a 9-foot table despite a mediocre break, because there's plenty of room to move around and where there are problems, grind out the win on a tactical basis, but still struggle on a bar box. Bar boxes require some different strategy and especially if you can't bust the rack open wide and spread evenly, the better shooter quickly loses the advantage to anybody with half a shred of sense, you don't need much of a stroke to play safe and frustrate a better player in bar box 8-ball when there are multiple problem balls and a dry break,

Then you run into the opposite problem where your 6 is a strong breaker but an inconsistent finisher, because there are SL4s out there who are excellent strategists and shotmakers that can probably outshoot your 6, but they just can't break for shit so they stay a 4-5 because their barbox racks always go 3+ innings.. Then your 6 busts a rack open for them, doesn't run it out but the SL4 has a wide open table, and lo and behold, they go down a game to a 4 and then have to clean their opponent's weak break next rack..

In addition to regional difference which I'm sure exist, remember that in the 3-6 range nobody is really a well-rounded and developed player yet so you can see definite disparities in an otherwise decent player's game between a 9ft and barbox....
 
Not to disparage APA, but anything below SL7 you shouldn't expect talented CB control and decision making on anything close to a consistent basis.

As a person that is a 6 and has been for a while and as a person that has shoot many other 6's and many 7's, I would agree with your statement 100%.

I would say the single biggest difference between a 6 and a 7 is cue ball control. Most 6's will make a make-able ball with just about the same success as a 7, the biggest difference is where they leave themselves for the next shot in doing so.
 
As a person that is a 6 and has been for a while and as a person that has shoot many other 6's and many 7's, I would agree with your statement 100%.

I would say the single biggest difference between a 6 and a 7 is cue ball control. Most 6's will make a make-able ball with just about the same success as a 7, the biggest difference is where they leave themselves for the next shot in doing so.

Well, in the APA 8-ball league I played in, even a strong 4 or weak 5 is a lock to make any open shot and has a general idea bout how to get shape, but will botch position after a few shots and usually isn't good enough to get back in line. 5s will make any shot that isn't too complicated and as long as the pattern sits pretty, are at least 1:4 odds to get as long as it can be done mostly with stop shots and a few natural rolls. A 6 should have basic competency over all forms of CB control but usually lacks the touch under pressure not to overdraw the CB and make life difficult for themselves before they can get out. A less experienced 6 usually has the problem in that they want to hit the most dramatic spin shot in every situation but do not have the control to stop the CB from getting away from them or land short side position where it's difficult, and will miss break-outs they shouldn't. The more experienced 6 usually makes much better decisions but doesn't play enough on full size tables to have the stroke and aim to get out easily. Some SL7s are serious players with consistent CB control who can break out their problems easily and not hook themselves on a barbox, break and run 2-3 racks in a race to 5, and are slumming it playing barbox APA --- the other SL7s
are just barbox heroes who are really good pulling out winning records on a barbox but wouldn't really be able to compete in BCA 9-ball or 10-ball with the same success.
 
Well, in the APA 8-ball league I played in, even a strong 4 or weak 5 is a lock to make any open shot and has a general idea bout how to get shape, but will botch position after a few shots and usually isn't good enough to get back in line. 5s will make any shot that isn't too complicated and as long as the pattern sits pretty, are at least 1:4 odds to get as long as it can be done mostly with stop shots and a few natural rolls. A 6 should have basic competency over all forms of CB control but usually lacks the touch under pressure not to overdraw the CB and make life difficult for themselves before they can get out. A less experienced 6 usually has the problem in that they want to hit the most dramatic spin shot in every situation but do not have the control to stop the CB from getting away from them or land short side position where it's difficult, and will miss break-outs they shouldn't. The more experienced 6 usually makes much better decisions but doesn't play enough on full size tables to have the stroke and aim to get out easily. Some SL7s are serious players with consistent CB control who can break out their problems easily and not hook themselves on a barbox, break and run 2-3 racks in a race to 5, and are slumming it playing barbox APA --- the other SL7s
are just barbox heroes who are really good pulling out winning records on a barbox but wouldn't really be able to compete in BCA 9-ball or 10-ball with the same success.

Well with 8 ball the game does get a little harder with the less balls on the table so......

Not sure how the 9' elitest comment got introduced into this, but it is a good thing some of those slop 7's can actually hit where they are aiming huh?
 
Well with 8 ball the game does get a little harder with the less balls on the table so......

Not sure how the 9' elitest comment got introduced into this, but it is a good thing some of those slop 7's can actually hit where they are aiming huh?

C'mon Skippy ....you know its a fact nobody in apa can hang with players in that "serious " league. All the serious players on here will tell you that.

Well.at least he djd not mention 8 ball..i guess he is one of the smart ones thar realizes its easier to break and run 8 ball in bcapl than it is in apa. Heck I had more break and runs in bcapl in one session when I played 12 years ago than I have had in apa for the last 5 years in apa.

I will add this tidbit as to the fallacy that spa players cant be very successful in bcapl 9 ball.

Some apa players have also played Napa at one time or another. I am sure most on here know who Jason Kirkwood and Alex olinger are. I ha e not looked on the Napa website for while but I recall Jason being right around a 150 handicap and Alex being in the 140's ....if my memory is correct..a few apa players who played Napa were around 130 or so and there are a few more apa players that never played Napa that are bus as good as the ones who did. Those 130 handicaps should show you that we have some pretty sporty players in our area that are just below jasons and alexes level.

I think that debunks the myth that spa players could not be competitive in bcapl 8...9.. Or 10 ball. And yea some of them even gamble . I saw an 800.00 set of 9 ball played once and a 1,000.00 set of 10 ball. Heck I know a few 5's that play 20.00 racks of 9 ball till they drop I saw a 6 walk out with 400 one night playing several people 9 ball even up. Guess that debunks the fallacy that spa players have no gamble.
 
C'mon Skippy ....you know its a fact nobody in apa can hang with players in that "serious " league. All the serious players on here will tell you that.

Well.at least he djd not mention 8 ball..i guess he is one of the smart ones thar realizes its easier to break and run 8 ball in bcapl than it is in apa. Heck I had more break and runs in bcapl in one session when I played 12 years ago than I have had in apa for the last 5 years in apa.

I will add this tidbit as to the fallacy that spa players cant be very successful in bcapl 9 ball.

Some apa players have also played Napa at one time or another. I am sure most on here know who Jason Kirkwood and Alex olinger are. I ha e not looked on the Napa website for while but I recall Jason being right around a 150 handicap and Alex being in the 140's ....if my memory is correct..a few apa players who played Napa were around 130 or so and there are a few more apa players that never played Napa that are bus as good as the ones who did. Those 130 handicaps should show you that we have some pretty sporty players in our area that are just below jasons and alexes level.

I think that debunks the myth that spa players could not be competitive in bcapl 8...9.. Or 10 ball. And yea some of them even gamble . I saw an 800.00 set of 9 ball played once and a 1,000.00 set of 10 ball. Heck I know a few 5's that play 20.00 racks of 9 ball till they drop I saw a 6 walk out with 400 one night playing several people 9 ball even up. Guess that debunks the fallacy that spa players have no gamble.

Not sure where that came from, I also know APA players who will throw down money or racks against randoms.

The entire point I was making is that there can be a large disparity in how a person performs between 9' table 9 ball and barbox 8-ball even as their skill level gets towards the high end of amateur leagues. I know an APA 8-ball player who ran 4-packs multiple times a season but was a weak 9' table player -- he had monster break and style that just worked on a barbox,but was not nearly controlled enough for 9-ball, especially his safety game. Then there was another guy who was an A- in most places he played 9-ball and, but never rose above a 6 in APA barbox 8-ball because (in my opinion) he preferred the more delicate shot and natural angle for position, and wasn't nearly as experienced with breaking out problems, and that just wasn't what was needed playing on bar tables that were often in poor shape against opponents who left a lot of ugly problems on the break or when they missed. My point was you can get up to a 6 and sometimes even 7 in APA 8-ball without the full set of skills you'd need to be successful in 9-ball, and you can be a good big table player and have trouble bringing those same skills to bear on a barbox. Only when you get to APA SL9 can you know just by someone's rank they're likely a solid all around player and not just good at a particular format and table type.
 
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