Don't hate on the leagues

[KissedOut]

Well you say you do and then your entire post shows you don't. Therefore, I would suggest you quiet down and speak to things you do actually know.

One of the things I learned in my 20+ years as a pension consultant and actuary, dealing with many many Dr. clients, is that a lot of Drs. think that because they are very smart and know a lot about medicine they are therefore experts on pretty much everything. It wasn't the guy who ran a small retail business that got taken by the investment sharks, it was the MDs. and DDSs. Kind of like the naive putzers who wander into a pool room and get cleaned out by the hustlers.

I don't know if Chopdoc falls into that category or not, but that whole patch thing was just weird. Leagues are important not because their guys wear patches but because they show up and pay their money on a regular basis and that helps the hall or.bar owner make his nut. Any business owner would kill to get a regular reliable revenue stream going.

 

[Rackemep]

I hate league play! Well at least out of the few leagues I've played in but I can't say I hate the leagues or the players that play in them...my 2 biggest gripes are 1. You only spend 25% of the time playing pool and the other 75% sitting around watching...When I go out to shoot I want to get some table time in! 2. For the most part only a few of the players around here care about improving their game! Sure they all want to win but only a couple that I met were interested in putting in the time on the practice table...Truthfully If it wasn't for the leagues in this Podunk little town I live in there wouldn't be anything other than "straight-8" bar players...so in that respect I'm thankful to the league for providing at least a few compitent players to shoot with.

If a singles league ever popped up here I think I would give that a try...that might change my mind about the league experience...

Edit: All in all I agree with the OP...leagues have their place and it's cool to help a fellow shooter Improve...

 

[justaplayer]

Based on several of your "You see?" comments, you clearly do not understand the business side of things, nor the importance of the leagues to them.

Patches,
They paying you to pump APA?

 

[Skippy27]

Patches,
They paying you to pump APA?

Not at all. I just call people out on their bullshit.

 

[tim913]

The thing I dislike about the leagues, and I basically grew up playing in them, is their exclusion of pool players who aren't members, as far as tournaments go. I haven't played leagues in years, and maybe the tournament rules have changed, but I'd hear about a tournament and show up to play. I was then told I had to be a member in xxxxx league or I couldn't play. I offered to play as the highest handicap, and pay double the entry fee, but wouldn't be allowed to play... It brought back the same feelings I had when I was a member..... It was never about POOL, it was about THEIR pool!

 

[ronscuba]

The thing I dislike about the leagues, and I basically grew up playing in them, is their exclusion of pool players who aren't members, as far as tournaments go. I haven't played leagues in years, and maybe the tournament rules have changed, but I'd hear about a tournament and show up to play. I was then told I had to be a member in xxxxx league or I couldn't play. I offered to play as the highest handicap, and pay double the entry fee, but wouldn't be allowed to play... It brought back the same feelings I had when I was a member..... It was never about POOL, it was about THEIR pool!

You are upset because you are not in the league and the league will not let you enter their league tournament ?

Really ?

Maybe I am misunderstanding. Is this a league tournament or an open amateur tournament ? I know some amateur tournaments are suspect of entrants when they cannot verify the players ability.

 

[bad_hit]

Some points to throw out there from what I've seen -

1) Leagues are DEFINITELY good for the ESTABLISHMENT. Nights there is league, there are people in the place buying things. It's easy to see the effect leagues have on a place when there's a break between league sessions - most times the place is dead, unless they have something else filling in like trivia, karaoke, poker event, etc

2) Leagues are MAYBE/MAYBE NOT good for the PLAYER. This one seems to be on a case by case basis. It benefits some, it doesn't benefit others. I do agree that most league players tend to plateau at a certain level and never get better. Some players do get better and competing in league can definitely help with that.

3) There are plenty of strong players that play in leagues. You can find good players in any league area and these people are also local or regional champions. They just happen to enjoy league play.

4) League players tend to buy a lot of pool-related crap, whether they need it or not. Then they tell their teammates to buy it too. How can this be bad for the industry?

5) League players do tend to take over the joint on league nights and make it seem like you don't belong unless you're part of the league. They do tend to argue and cause a fuss sometimes about rules and handicaps and other issues. They do tend to not be aware of the greater pool community. They do tend to overstate their skill levels and not understand where they are in the pecking order, or how much they really do need to practice to truly improve. These are some negatives for sure, and I get why people don't like league players.

I do think overall - leagues are VERY good for pool. I really think the sport would already be dead if they weren't holding it up. I like playing pool, so regardless of everything else - I like leagues for this reason.

 

[sbpoolleague]

Patches,
They paying you to pump APA?

I disagree with most of your anti-league rhetoric but I have to say that the nickname "Patches" is the funniest and most apropos nickname I have ever heard!! Well done...tap tap.

 

[mvp]

I disagree with most of your anti-league rhetoric but I have to say that the nickname "Patches" is the funniest and most apropos nickname I have ever heard!! Well done...tap tap.

I second the name "patches" and gave it to a guy today! #bestlineever

 

[Dead Money]

The only issue I have with them is when they stroll in 2 hours before their league starts & expect paying customers/players to disappear so they can get their free practice time in for 2 hours before it starts.

I used to run into this all the time at one of the places I used to play regularly. I was on a schedule where to get my pool fix I would go in early in the afternoon to practice around and if I could find a person to shoot with or get some cheap action with I'd be down for that. I don't know how many times in a place with 30 plus tables someone would show up and plop their cases and stuff down next to my table and start getting set up to either play on MY table or the one right next to it because "that" is where they always played league. Mind you this was often two hours or more before their league time was supposed to start. I'm not so sure this is a league thing as much as it is an arrogant asshole thing. It was usually the same people every week too. I'm not a little guy so I know I ain't invisible! Most days seemed to have three or four people like that so I would always learn who they were for each day and try to avoid their spots lol.

 

[Dead Money]

Some points to throw out there from what I've seen -

1) Leagues are DEFINITELY good for the ESTABLISHMENT. Nights there is league, there are people in the place buying things. It's easy to see the effect leagues have on a place when there's a break between league sessions - most times the place is dead, unless they have something else filling in like trivia, karaoke, poker event, etc

2) Leagues are MAYBE/MAYBE NOT good for the PLAYER. This one seems to be on a case by case basis. It benefits some, it doesn't benefit others. I do agree that most league players tend to plateau at a certain level and never get better. Some players do get better and competing in league can definitely help with that.

3) There are plenty of strong players that play in leagues. You can find good players in any league area and these people are also local or regional champions. They just happen to enjoy league play.

4) League players tend to buy a lot of pool-related crap, whether they need it or not. Then they tell their teammates to buy it too. How can this be bad for the industry?

5) League players do tend to take over the joint on league nights and make it seem like you don't belong unless you're part of the league. They do tend to argue and cause a fuss sometimes about rules and handicaps and other issues. They do tend to not be aware of the greater pool community. They do tend to overstate their skill levels and not understand where they are in the pecking order, or how much they really do need to practice to truly improve. These are some negatives for sure, and I get why people don't like league players.

I do think overall - leagues are VERY good for pool. I really think the sport would already be dead if they weren't holding it up. I like playing pool, so regardless of everything else - I like leagues for this reason.

These are all solid points. If I owned a pool hall I would want leagues for sure!

 

[Jdm34]

IMO leagues are good and bad in all aspects
good for the establishment good for beginner players Good place to find competition of different handicaps cheap money for a night of pool.

Bad establishments sometimes forget about the die hard pool players who want to shoot all night not play one match and leave. Bad for lower level players just starting out They are told they shot great and believe cause they won a match at a low level handicap won on a shot that was shit in and believe they won cause it was a good shot captains encourage this to keep handicaps down.

I play at a place the owner is great and a lot of good shooters place is slammed with leagues and a couple inhouse tourneys but I cant stand going anymore cause the league players want take all the tables cause they think there more important and 2nd they talk handicap sandbagging and how much money is at stake. discusting not one is ever asking how to improve or what to change.

I will never play apa Vnea its only about the money. there are good people in the league but I bet majority isn't about the world of pool.

 

[scottycoyote]

i dont hate leagues but i do agree with some of the gripes ive read here. I think the main thing that always kept me from playing in them is all the teams that approached me wanted me to sandbag as long as possible and i just dont enjoy playing that way.

On the plus side i am for anything that helps keep pool and interest in pool alive

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

Patches,
They paying you to pump APA?

Love it. Your new nickname is IB.

 

[tim913]

You are upset because you are not in the league and the league will not let you enter their league tournament ?

Really ?

Maybe I am misunderstanding. Is this a league tournament or an open amateur tournament ? I know some amateur tournaments are suspect of entrants when they cannot verify the players ability.

There are a lot of people who do not have the time, patience, whatever to play in leagues anymore, but would like to play in a tournament once in a while. I can see why they wouldn't want a pro coming in to play, easily vetted, but if it's about POOL, why not let non-members play if they want to take the high handicap and pay more?
BTW..never said I was upset, just something I dislike. When I go to the shooting range they have member and non-member pricing, the same with some other sports, just seems like the pool leagues are all about THEIR pool, but really not about POOL itself...

 

[lorider]

There are a lot of people who do not have the time, patience, whatever to play in leagues anymore, but would like to play in a tournament once in a while. I can see why they wouldn't want a pro coming in to play, easily vetted, but if it's about POOL, why not let non-members play if they want to take the high handicap and pay more?
BTW..never said I was upset, just something I dislike. When I go to the shooting range they have member and non-member pricing, the same with some other sports, just seems like the pool leagues are all about THEIR pool, but really not about POOL itself...

I believe you will.find situations like that league or no league.

I walked into a place I heard about that held weekly Saturday night tournaments and won.

Went back the next wed and was told I could not play in it any more.. Hard to understand that cause I was not like I walked all over ever one ...guess cause it w as an unknown that walked it and won.

 

[richdrod]

Good point! They constantly bring more people through the door.

 

[ronscuba]

There are a lot of people who do not have the time, patience, whatever to play in leagues anymore, but would like to play in a tournament once in a while. I can see why they wouldn't want a pro coming in to play, easily vetted, but if it's about POOL, why not let non-members play if they want to take the high handicap and pay more?
BTW..never said I was upset, just something I dislike. When I go to the shooting range they have member and non-member pricing, the same with some other sports, just seems like the pool leagues are all about THEIR pool, but really not about POOL itself...

I understand how you feel.

However, leagues create a certain comradery among people who play in them by excluding non league members from participating in league events.

I even see this in area tournaments too. To enter a Tri State or Predator tournament you pay the entry fee, but also a 1 time annual fee to become a member of the "tour".

Makes sense from their point of view. There is a business, money making side to this after all. APA, BCA, TAP, Mega, Tristate, Predator, Joss, etc.. They have to do something to separate themselves from one another.

 

[mvp]

Yeah I hate having to play a league to qualify to play in certain tournaments, I just joined an acs league to get my 6plays in, guess what after 6plays I'm done and a sub is gonna finish the season. It does make more since to have open tournaments with a non member price! Say tourney is 100$ for member than add $25for membership $30 for missed dues and maybe an administrative fee of $20 totaling $175 for non members. I would do this all day to avoid committing to league.

Thoughts anyone???????

 

[BmoreMoney]

Some points to throw out there from what I've seen -

1) Leagues are DEFINITELY good for the ESTABLISHMENT. Nights there is league, there are people in the place buying things. It's easy to see the effect leagues have on a place when there's a break between league sessions - most times the place is dead, unless they have something else filling in like trivia, karaoke, poker event, etc

2) Leagues are MAYBE/MAYBE NOT good for the PLAYER. This one seems to be on a case by case basis. It benefits some, it doesn't benefit others. I do agree that most league players tend to plateau at a certain level and never get better. Some players do get better and competing in league can definitely help with that.

3) There are plenty of strong players that play in leagues. You can find good players in any league area and these people are also local or regional champions. They just happen to enjoy league play.

4) League players tend to buy a lot of pool-related crap, whether they need it or not. Then they tell their teammates to buy it too. How can this be bad for the industry?

5) League players do tend to take over the joint on league nights and make it seem like you don't belong unless you're part of the league. They do tend to argue and cause a fuss sometimes about rules and handicaps and other issues. They do tend to not be aware of the greater pool community. They do tend to overstate their skill levels and not understand where they are in the pecking order, or how much they really do need to practice to truly improve. These are some negatives for sure, and I get why people don't like league players.

I do think overall - leagues are VERY good for pool. I really think the sport would already be dead if they weren't holding it up. I like playing pool, so regardless of everything else - I like leagues for this reason.

This is a great post imo. I think this is the most complete, concise post I've ever seen in regards to league. The ONLY thing I would add is the Nitty Nit Nitenbacher gambling aspect, but that's a side issue anyway. GREAT POST BROTHER!