Don't hate on the leagues

[mvp]

Leagues are a great platform to venture out and meet like minded people, improve their play, maybe qualify for a bigger venue like a district championship or vegas. We all know they are designed to profit (they are business's) but 10$ a night to hang out with some buddies after work is nothing!!! I'll never knock an APA player for playing on a team or winning a tourney with a spot, it's good for all of us!!!! sure 99% of the league players on local levels will never reach a reasonable level of quality play nor do they really want it! I personally don't like leagues for all the above reasons but I understand they are good for growing the sport. Instead of bashing the players, go out and help them.

Hell.........I might even play in one again sometime lol

 

[KRJ]

League players keep pool around. Would Diamond sponsor tournaments, if nobody was buying their tables ? Would pool rooms and/or bars have finally gotten better tables if not for league players demanding them? Would bars and/or pool rooms still be open without the 2 or 3 busy nights they provide during the weeks? Who the heck is buying tickets to pool events, shows, exhibitions, etc. ?

The bottom line. League players rule ;:grin:

 

[MuchoBurrito]

Maybe someone can enlighten me, because I actually don't understand.

WHAT is the beef some people have with leagues? I don't understand why what the issue would be.

Full disclosure. I play in two leagues lol.

 

[jasonlaus]

Maybe someone can enlighten me, because I actually don't understand.

WHAT is the beef some people have with leagues? I don't understand why what the issue would be.

Full disclosure. I play in two leagues lol.

Mostly that players try NOT to improve. But let's face it, most of us don't do what's necessary to reach our potential, so I guess we are actually mad at ourselves.
Jason

 

[Bavafongoul]

Leagues are great.....it is the breeding ground for new players to mature and improve.
Now if there were just more 9 ft. leagues around, that would be a whole lot better.
Nonetheless, any pool is better than no pool.Just ask any room owner. League $ help!

Matt B.

 

[Chopdoc]

Maybe someone can enlighten me, because I actually don't understand.

WHAT is the beef some people have with leagues? I don't understand why what the issue would be.

Full disclosure. I play in two leagues lol.

I don 't "hate " leagues but...here goes.

I don't prefer leagues.

I played for a lot of years without ever being on any kind of league. My university team relentlessly bugged me to join them, but I never did.

When I was home on break from med school I was playing some in local bars. Ran into some guys a couple times and beat them. Turned out they were on an amateur league team. They asked me to join. I tried it. The team qualified to go to Vegas...and I got called back to a hospital assignment. That was my only experience with a league.

How was it? I hated it. I didn't play nearly as well and I found the other players very interfering. I also felt the entire system was just manipulative.

Lets just say it does not suit me. And that's OK. right?

Then, many years later I find AZB and see things like:

League players keep pool around.

Which I resent. I don't mind the leagues. I leave them alone and they leave me alone. But statements like that bother me.


When I was in college our university president once said something like "The best students are in the Greek community" during a speech, meaning the fraternity and sorority community. He pissed off a lot of people including me because he made that jackass comment. I was a member of TriBeta, the Biology honor society, and a proud independent student. I lived with Greeks but did not pledge. I lived with TKE brothers, wild parties.

Greeks are the party people, they don't in any way hold up or contribute to a university, just like the football team. It's sad that so many think otherwise, they are simply blind to the truth.

I ride, and I wear a patch on my back. Am I foolish enough to thing that people that riders that wear a patch prop up motorcycle sales or are supporting the motorcycle industry in some way? No.

It gets worse when I hear:

Would Diamond sponsor tournaments, if nobody was buying their tables ?

You see? People that aren't in leagues apparently can't afford pool tables? WTF is that statement about? Completely asinine.

Would pool rooms and/or bars have finally gotten better tables if not for league players demanding them?

You see? Pool rooms and bars do not pay attention to their customers unless those customers are wearing a league patch. That's how they stay in business apparently. No league patch, no service.

Would bars and/or pool rooms still be open without the 2 or 3 busy nights they provide during the weeks?

There is a good point. Many bars and pool rooms rely on their busy night. It certainly isn't always league night. but for some places it is. I guess all the bars without pool tables are going out of business? Nope.



And then there is stuff like this:

The bottom line. League players rule

Rule what?

I did belong to two organizations a long time ago, late 80's. I felt it helped support the game and the industry. I paid dues. I did not play on any league for, under, or with them.

Generally leagues don't bother me, and I don't bother them. I even got my protege, the guy I am teaching, to join a league. I knew it would help his game. Here on AZB I generally just don't get into discussions about them.

Most people that play pool are not on a league. The industry would go away if most pool players went away. The industry would not go away if the leagues went away.


So that's where I am with all that. I don't "hate" leagues and I don't sit around bashing on them or their players. I prefer to not play in a league. That's all.






.

 

[Bank it]

I also don't hate them but have no use for them either. The only issue I have with them is when they stroll in 2 hours before their league starts & expect paying customers/players to disappear so they can get their free practice time in for 2 hours before it starts. After watching them I don't think 20 hours of warmup will make a difference.

 

[philly]

There are leagues and there are leagues. There are APA type leagues and in-house leagues. I play in an 8 ball and a 9 ball in-house league on 9 foot GC's that are kept in top notch shape. No teams. Mano y mano and it can be extremely competitive depending upon your opponent. It is handicapped. A, B, and C players.
8 ball:
A- race to 10
B- race to 7
C- race to 4

9ball:
A- race to 15
B- race to 11
C- race to 7
On the weekend I gamble with many of these players same players. Trust me nobody lays down. Nothing like the sanctioned leagues.

 

[Coop1701]

Chopdoc..., I think you were correct on a few things. But I don't believe that's what he meant by saying that about Diamond Tables. It was't that league players couldn't afford them. It was they supply a lot of tables for Bars who host leagues.

Also the other guy, ChicagoRJ was just kidding. Leagues don't rule and all the bars and poolhalls I play in. Everyone is pretty much even on who gets service.

That's my 2 cents. I think Leagues do a lot of good for the pool industry all together. I'm not the best in my area. But I can hold my own and strive every week to get better.

 

[Skippy27]

I don 't "hate " leagues but...here goes.

Based on several of your "You see?" comments, you clearly do not understand the business side of things, nor the importance of the leagues to them.

 

[Chopdoc]

Chopdoc..., I think you were correct on a few things. But I don't believe that's what he meant by saying that about Diamond Tables. It was't that league players couldn't afford them. It was they supply a lot of tables for Bars who host leagues.

Also the other guy, ChicagoRJ was just kidding. Leagues don't rule and all the bars and poolhalls I play in. Everyone is pretty much even on who gets service.

That's my 2 cents. I think Leagues do a lot of good for the pool industry all together. I'm not the best in my area. But I can hold my own and strive every week to get better.

I get that.

I get the kidding.


And I get it about the tables.

It does not change how I feel when I hear and see it.



.

 

[Chopdoc]

Based on several of your "You see?" comments, you clearly do not understand the business side of things, nor the importance of the leagues to them.

Really?


I think I do.


That's part of the problem that I have with it actually, sort of.


It's perfectly OK to me that leagues have that importance to businesses. But that importance does not sacrifice all else. In fact, that importance does not function to the detriment of any other aspect of business or revenue streams. If it did, then the pool halls and bars would be league members only clubs, and they aren't.

It's the attitudes of the league players that sometimes rubs me the wrong way. Sometimes.

Leagues of all different types are integral with the industry, various businesses, and the state of the game.

That does not mean I have to like a piss poor attitude when I see it. That does not mean I have to like the whining and groaning when I see it. And that does not diminish in any way the players who are not in any league.


It isn't that big of a deal to me but the topic came up so I spoke about it. That's all. I related my personal experience and how I felt about it. That's all. I used several recent comments as examples and said how I felt about them. That's all.


The topic at hand is about "hate", an emotional state. I responded about how I feel. And you respond with a message saying that means somehow I don't understand or perhaps don't know enough.

I disagree. What you did was just further contribute to how I feel about it.



I rarely respond in threads about league issues. I am not a part of that. I once responded when a person asked if they should join a league for the discounts. I said no. My feeling was that they should join primarily if they want to be on that league. The perks should be secondary. I stand by that.


IMHO it is less about what I understand about the business of the industry and perhaps more that you didn't understand what I had to say about what I feel. The resulting comment it generated from you just further supports my feelings on the matter when I think your intent was to inform me of your perception of my supposed ignorance.

I promise I am not ignorant of my own feelings. And I promise I am aware of the business importance of leagues.

I prefer not to be involved in any league because of how I feel. I am more comfy just not doing it. That's all.


As I said in my post I encouraged the guy I am teaching to join a league and he did.

It's just not for me. That's all.


I responded by saying I don't hate the leagues, but thought that perhaps posting my feelings, my emotions, based on what I have experienced, seen, and heard, would contribute to understanding why perhaps some people might express "hate" for leagues.


Does that mean that I don't understand what you claim I don't understand? I don't think so.

:smile:






.

 

[MuchoBurrito]

I will say that based on the format of the leagues in my area, I don't play as well in leagues as I do in tournaments or races for $$. There's no getting into a rhythm, a lot of sitting around watching your teammates play, etc. Which is fine, it's a social thing, but in terms of actually playing pool, I will admit it's not optimal.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Greeks are the party people, they don't in any way hold up or contribute to a university, just like the football team. It's sad that so many think otherwise, they are simply blind to the truth.

I just had to ask if you really believe this - that the athletes or Greek community don't
contribute to a University?

I mean, I guess it depends on where you went to school. For instance I'd have to say that
in some instances I might agree, like a football team contributed very little or not at all
to Julliard or Berklee, but I digress.....

 

[Skippy27]

Really?


I think I do.

Well you say you do and then your entire post shows you don't. Therefore, I would suggest you quiet down and speak to things you do actually know.

 

[alstl]

Leagues are a great platform to venture out and meet like minded people, improve their play, maybe qualify for a bigger venue like a district championship or vegas. We all know they are designed to profit (they are business's) but 10$ a night to hang out with some buddies after work is nothing!!! I'll never knock an APA player for playing on a team or winning a tourney with a spot, it's good for all of us!!!! sure 99% of the league players on local levels will never reach a reasonable level of quality play nor do they really want it! I personally don't like leagues for all the above reasons but I understand they are good for growing the sport. Instead of bashing the players, go out and help them.

Hell.........I might even play in one again sometime lol

Let me see if I understand this. You don't like leagues but you are telling other people to like them.

For me, I don't "hate" leagues but I don't want to play in one. Just one of many things I choose not to participate in.

 

[Positively Ralf]

I've only played in one league and I've heard of others. I think it depends which league you play in as I've heard leagues like the APA are for people who just want to hang out and shoot around whereas the one I play in there are way more serious players. Sure we laugh and talk but when we are at the table it's war.

The APA's product works so you can't deny their success, but the league I play in wants you to get better and I have grown in the last year or so.

 

[Chopdoc]

I just had to ask if you really believe this - that the athletes or Greek community don't
contribute to a University?

I mean, I guess it depends on where you went to school. For instance I'd have to say that
in some instances I might agree, like a football team contributed very little or not at all
to Julliard or Berklee, but I digress.....

Yes. Emphatically.

Ultimately academic performance and the ongoing success of graduates is the only true measure of a university.

The stats on GPA of Greek versus independent students is falsely elevated. Anybody that understands research and/or statistics knows this, it is blatantly obvious, so it is such a shame that it is put out there as part of a recruiting effort for Greek Life at universities. Understanding this is an academic matter so it is particularly concerning that it is so openly ignored that the stats do hold up against even the most superficial scrutiny at a very basic level.


In the end, it is a gross versus net issue. Do they grossly contribute? Sure. But then one must subtract to get the net and there is a consistent deficit.

So your Fraternity raised some money for autism research? OK. And they killed a pledge in a hazing ritual.

The Sorority volunteered at an event? OK. And one of their alumni, a lawyer working pro bono for them, stole $250K from the sale of their Sorority house. (Recent event in the news).

Just two anecdotes, of course. But they are illustrations.



I don't believe it depends on where you go to school or what organization you happen to belong to. I believe that on the whole they are overall detrimental to the overall mission of the universities. There are always exceptions...but they are exceptions.


To improve overall the universities in the US should move back to having their athletic teams be intramural types of activities and do away with the Greek fraternity system as it has evolved in the US.


I have attended and taught at schools with and without Greeks and football teams. I have also attended schools in both the US and Europe. So I can compare and contrast based on firsthand experience.

I believe the approach to college life regarding sports and fraternities in Europe is much healthier for the purpose of the university.


That Greek fraternities and sororities are "accepted" as part of the university is a serious problem. If any such club or organization wishes to exist I have no issue with that if it is off campus and in no way recognized as part of the university or "accepted" on campus.


By the way:
When I lived with TKE brothers they were not accepted on campus at that university. They had been "on campus" years before. Why were they kicked "off campus"? They killed a pledge.





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[KRJ]

I

When I was in college our university president once said something like "The best students are in the Greek community" during a speech, meaning the fraternity and sorority community. He pissed off a lot of people including me because he made that jackass comment. I was a member of TriBeta, the Biology honor society, and a proud independent student. I lived with Greeks but did not pledge. I lived with TKE brothers, wild parties.

[/SIZE][/COLOR]
Greeks are the party people, they don't in any way hold up or contribute to a university, just like the football team. It's sad that so many think otherwise, they are simply blind to the truth.

Ok, that was your little college that nobody cares about, Who really cares what your demented college president has to say about Greeks or athletes, or anything for that matters? And this still bothers you this decades later? Yikes.

I ride, and I wear a patch on my back. Am I foolish enough to thing that people that riders that wear a patch prop up motorcycle sales or are supporting the motorcycle industry in some way? No.

Who, in this thread talked about a "patch' supporting the pool industry. Geez, when you get side tracked, you just steer it off the cliff League players buy stuff, a lot of stuff. Would Seyberts still need to be around, custom cue makers, etc. Heck, they even buy pool tables to practice on for league.


It gets worse when I hear:

You see? People that aren't in leagues apparently can't afford pool tables? WTF is that statement about? Completely asinine.

Did someone say that? Please show the post, I must have missed that one. Or is this one of those, this is what some guy, a long time ago, said one time in a bar I can't remember, after much drinking... yes, his attitude is the entire pool playing community


You see? Pool rooms and bars do not pay attention to their customers unless those customers are wearing a league patch. That's how they stay in business apparently. No league patch, no service.

WHo said that exactly. Surely, when bars are bringing in better tables they are trying to appease the league players, as the league revenue is pretty good on what would be very slow nights. Our pool room puts on new cloth as soon as we moan, as we fill it with 16 teams on Thursday nights,.... seriously doubt a couple of serious players have that kind of juice while knocking balls around on a Sunday. Our VFW brought in Diamonds, ONLY because we said we would start another night of league for them. They said if you do that, you get Diamonds. And so it was done... but don't let facts stand in your way


There is a good point. Many bars and pool rooms rely on their busy night. It certainly isn't always league night. but for some places it is. I guess all the bars without pool tables are going out of business? Nope.

We are talking about bars with pool tables, and those slow nights, with league players might be the difference of closing or not in this economy, with the amount of competition. Those are usually smaller bars, with not a lot of foot traffic. So, yeah, go tell a bar owner to kick out the leagues so you and a friend can shoot some "serious" pool. He'd kick you to the curb so quick, you won't know what hit ya


And then there is stuff like this:

Rule what?

Oh GOSH Chops. Rule what. So, sorry, I said Leages Rule? Are you taking this so stupidly serious that I can't make a comment that translates into "I like leagues". When I say "Ozzy Rules", most folks take that as I like Black Sabbath, they don't assume that Ozzy Osbourne is the greatest musician to ever live, and the industry would die with out him. geez



Most people that play pool are not on a league. The industry would go away if most pool players went away. The industry would not go away if the leagues went away.

LMAO. Come on Choppers. If leagues went away, 500K folks that play pool in various leagues, a lot of folks may give up the game, would certainly play less. Who wants to be a baseball player without a team. Not everyone wants to play tourneys only... playing till 2am in the morning in some cases. The hardcore players would be around, but there are not as many of them left as there use to be.


.

Bottom line, NOBODY said that leagues are EVEYTHING. Holy cow. But they get trashed by so many folks, for so long, it's just tiresome and boring. Get a life already

You don't like leagues. I've been playing leagues for only 12 years, before that, never in my life did I play in a league. But guess what, I was not as involved into pool as I am today I sell pool stuff, I teach, I play, I ran leagues, I teach at a senior center, I teach at a teenage center, I played at Derby several times, sponsored HOF players to give exhibtions, I sponsor league and tournament teams, etc. etc. I'm trying to get a billiards program started with a local High School.

Stuff I never did before I joined a league 12 years ago. Been playing pool since I was 10 years old. So, they do have impact, NOT all the impact, but they have a good chunk, and no need to say what size or to what affect, but they are a big part of pool whether folks want to believe it or not.

 

[KissedOut]

Maybe someone can enlighten me, because I actually don't understand.

WHAT is the beef some people have with leagues? I don't understand why what the issue would be.

Full disclosure. I play in two leagues lol.

Actually from what I have seen most of the critics really love the leagues because it gives them something to look down their nose at. Especially the "playas".