Unless you think that strictly because you think Shane's break would give him a huge advantage over Buddy Hall, I think the idea that anyone would beat Buddy Hall at his best "easily" is absurd.
Is the level of play at a all time high
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Unless you think that strictly because you think Shane's break would give him a huge advantage over Buddy Hall, I think the idea that anyone would beat Buddy Hall at his best "easily" is absurd.
Players today are lucky they play on fast easy cloth, they don't have the stroke to keep up with the old school players....
End sarcasm.
End sarcasm.
I agree. I think if Greenleaf were born in, say, 1991, so that he was 25 today, and he started playing pool in today's era at the same age he started in his own, I have no doubt that he would be as good as the best players in the world today at 14.1. Greenleaf was a once-in-a-generation talent.
You guys are missing the point. 30 years ago there were a few that could win. Now all the top 100 play that speed or better
Wish I was born in 91
Jason
The original question was whether or not the level of play today is at an all-time high. That's not the same question as whether or not there are more players today who play at the highest level.
What???
This is silly talk. SVB"S Great play is because he knows how to rack???? Shane is not a rack master, he's a great player, is now and would have been back in your day.
He wins no matter who is racking, he wins alternate break, winner break and on any table.
This is silly talk. SVB"S Great play is because he knows how to rack???? Shane is not a rack master, he's a great player, is now and would have been back in your day.
He wins no matter who is racking, he wins alternate break, winner break and on any table.
You're right. I take back the "easily. Johnnyt
That's the point of the thread ,Seem like instead of a couple of epic battles at the end you get days of epic play
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The "talent" is no better. It's just more widespread.
If you took any former legend and raised them in todays era, they'd be better than they were in their era and compete equally on todays level.
Same as any other sport. Athletes/Players progress as do the games.
If you took any former legend and raised them in todays era, they'd be better than they were in their era and compete equally on todays level.
Same as any other sport. Athletes/Players progress as do the games.
But, the level of play IS higher. Whether old timers would've played better is not the question.
I agree that most of them would've played better today.
Michael Johnson (gold medalist) has a show on netflix about this topic. It has Ronnie O'Sullivan featured in it! Chasing Perfection is the title.
The level is higher. I agree. But it's not because the talent pool is "better". More of it and more widespread shared knowledge, better equipment, and more participation....
We essentially agree...
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Are you just saying that there are more good players today, or that the level of play at the top is higher today than in the past?
It's obvious that there are more good players in the world of pool today than ever before, but that doesn't mean that the top players of today play better than the top players of the past.
I would say the level of play worldwide is at an all time high. However, I have some points that concern me when it comes to pool's overall state as well.
1. With Earl all but finished (same for Archer), Morris entering twilight years (but still going very strong), and Deuel beginning to fade, this is leaving the U.S. top player Shane without a consistent rival. We have some solid players up and coming (in particular I feel Woodward and Bergman will be the eventual heirs of Shane in American pool), and I was very impressed with Shuff and Dechaine over the US Open 9 ball. Yet it remains an achilles heel for the US that our players do not always travel oversees very well, and many countries have overtaken the US in quality of pool play.
2. For those old enough to remember, Germany used to field some of the finest players across multiple disciplines with the quartet of Oliver Ortman, Thomas Engart, Ralph Souquet, and Thorston Hohmman. Ortman and Engart are pretty much gone from the pool scene except small events, Souquet and Thorston only have so many years left before they too begin to fade, and it has been a while since a German player made the Mosconi Cup team. I will be very sad if there are few to no German players to take up the mantle of these four giants on the world stage.
3. I love Niels Feijen, and have grown to at least have a deep respect for Nick Vandenberg. However, I do not hear of many players in Holland coming up behind them yet. I have a fear of losing a strong European presence in pool if countries such as Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Holland, and the above mentioned Germany do not have that up and coming talent being identified. That being said, the rise of Albin Ochean and Nikos Economopolus does give me a flare of hope.
4. I see the Filipinos as being in good hands, especially with Orcollo and Corteza proving themselves time and again recently. I'm sorry that Ronnie Alcano was never quite able to break through the ceiling, but with Parica also retiring there are still some large shoes to fill over there. There will always be a strong contingent from the Philippines, but it just feels like a bit of a letdown to go from six superstars to two.
1. With Earl all but finished (same for Archer), Morris entering twilight years (but still going very strong), and Deuel beginning to fade, this is leaving the U.S. top player Shane without a consistent rival. We have some solid players up and coming (in particular I feel Woodward and Bergman will be the eventual heirs of Shane in American pool), and I was very impressed with Shuff and Dechaine over the US Open 9 ball. Yet it remains an achilles heel for the US that our players do not always travel oversees very well, and many countries have overtaken the US in quality of pool play.
2. For those old enough to remember, Germany used to field some of the finest players across multiple disciplines with the quartet of Oliver Ortman, Thomas Engart, Ralph Souquet, and Thorston Hohmman. Ortman and Engart are pretty much gone from the pool scene except small events, Souquet and Thorston only have so many years left before they too begin to fade, and it has been a while since a German player made the Mosconi Cup team. I will be very sad if there are few to no German players to take up the mantle of these four giants on the world stage.
3. I love Niels Feijen, and have grown to at least have a deep respect for Nick Vandenberg. However, I do not hear of many players in Holland coming up behind them yet. I have a fear of losing a strong European presence in pool if countries such as Finland, Sweden, Hungary, Holland, and the above mentioned Germany do not have that up and coming talent being identified. That being said, the rise of Albin Ochean and Nikos Economopolus does give me a flare of hope.
4. I see the Filipinos as being in good hands, especially with Orcollo and Corteza proving themselves time and again recently. I'm sorry that Ronnie Alcano was never quite able to break through the ceiling, but with Parica also retiring there are still some large shoes to fill over there. There will always be a strong contingent from the Philippines, but it just feels like a bit of a letdown to go from six superstars to two.
So you're discounting one of the biggest reasons why today's level of play is higher?
But I would say YES, for sure, the same way that the level of play in every sport / activity is higher today than 30, 40, 50 years ago. Everything is better now. Facilities, exercise, nutrition, technology, better biomechanics, innovations in play/strategy, etc... and there are just so many more players now. Fields are much deeper now with all the international players.
So yes, I would say the level of play is at an all time high. Although it would have been nice to have stats from the 70's to compare. (stats like break and runs etc...)
I would say both. There are more good players today.
AND the best players today are better. The game has evolved like every other game over the last 30 years. There is nobody from the 70's who could break with guys like Shane or Ko today. Nobody. And everybody has a huge break today. The game has evolved, nostalgia aside, I would submit that there is no sport / activity that was at a higher level 30 years ago than now. The reality of innovation just renders this next to impossible.