Pivoting systems and their relationship to CTE

stan shuffett said:
Since you are asking...... I choose Round Man.

Stan Shuffett
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I have him on ignore, but saw your quote of Rick's. I haven't seen anywhere where you stated, intended, or even implied that CTE was an outlier to any of the physical sciences. All you have stated, is that it is an outlier.

Him stating that it is an outlier to physical science and then condemning that statement, is nothing more than a fake story straight out of Hillary's playbook. Make something up that was never stated, and then mock it for being false.

So typical of the times we are now in. Take what is something good and twist it into something bad, and take what is bad and twist it into something good. Amazing how many on here that have no real clue about things, feel that they are expert at debating it. But, I guess that is really pretty easy to do when all they are really debating is crap they made up to start with.

Gotta love how they are already condemning your book, and you haven't even finished writing it yet!
 
Dan White said:
OK, so you made a mistake. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you didn't just take the video down or put a disclaimer on it. Maybe you realized you did something wrong just recently? I hope so, because that one video is responsible for hours upon hours of argument. Also, I hope I'm reading the bold part wrong because it sounds like you love that there has been so much negativity. Surely you didn't mean it to sound like that.

You really should post a new thread on this subject so that your supporters don't have to say stuff in pm's that they don't want made public. They are twisting themselves into knots trying to defend a mistake.
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You see, all you are doing here is grasping at straws to attempt to find something wrong. You put absolutely zero effort into actually trying to understand.

Those five shots have been discussed many times on here. Many times by people other than Stan that have no problem making them as described. So, are they makeable just as described? Yes! What you fail to see is that Stan has found another way to describe what happens in those five shots.

Are there a few shots mislabeled in the DVD? I will take Stan's word that there are. I never looked at the videos that closely to try and find any and all possible errors there might be. Didn't need to do that to learn the system.
 
Dan White said:
OK, so you made a mistake. I'm scratching my head trying to figure out why you didn't just take the video down or put a disclaimer on it. Maybe you realized you did something wrong just recently? I hope so, because that one video is responsible for hours upon hours of argument. Also, I hope I'm reading the bold part wrong because it sounds like you love that there has been so much negativity. Surely you didn't mean it to sound like that.

You really should post a new thread on this subject so that your supporters don't have to say stuff in pm's that they don't want made public. They are twisting themselves into knots trying to defend a mistake.
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Simple. I feed off of the negative. Makes me work harder. Not sure I could have made it without all of the ridicule. Getting the correct handle on CTE has been the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.
You have helped greatly! Thank you!

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
You are welcome to challenge my ability to explain CTE as an outlier at my book release. Can we post up $5000 since you think I can not deliver? Should I succeed I will bet 5G back and give you the called 6 out playing 9 ball race to a 100 over 3 days so you can win your money back if I do explain it satisfactorily. Step up to the place, Dizzy.
Normally aspired to table.......
Stan Shuffett
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I want half of Stan's bet on this one.
 
stan shuffett said:
Have had my share of health issues this year. Wishing you the best of health.

Stan Shuffett
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Right back at you, Sir.

When Ben Hogan withdrew mid round from his last tournament & the Young Man driving him in a cart back to the Club House asked, "What happened, Mr. Hogan?"

All Mr Hogan said was...

"Don't ever get old."
 
ENGLISH! said:
Larry,

It's too "difficult" to respond with your blue text in my post...

but I don't see us as having any break through in agreement.

You seem to be ignoring certain aspect of what I've said & then go off 'into the woods'.

Basically...

The point on the balls & the lines between those points & extended out if need be...

have NOTHING to do with the pocket.

at least not for That Other Version other than yours.

You the Ghost Ball CP to determine what visual to use as in which of the options would put you closest to the actual shot line... but you SAY that you forget it after that point. (That is the same as selecting what visual to use in that other method.)

So... in essence you have forgotten where the balls are on the table & are simply going to go through your steps... the process. If that is the case then you will get the same result regardless of where the balls are on the table... IF... the balls are the same distance apart & your bridge length & pivot size is the same & all is done objectively with no change due to any subjective or subconscious anything.

Can you not understand that the angle to the pocket in no way dictates what you are seeing...

In other words it does not matter where the balls are on the table relative to anything...

...once YOU in your method has used the angle & the ghost ball CP to select what visual is closest to the actual line... the A & Bare set by the position of the CB & the Edge to those points are Set/Fixed... & the cte line is set Fixed... BY NOTHING but the relationship of the TWO balls... one o the other & back again.

There is no magic, voo doo, mysticism, & I do not think satanism... but satan does distort the truth with deception.:wink:

They is simply the pints on the balls & the lines between those points & that define

Imagine a bar bell that is connected from one big round weight that is connected from the center of one to the edge of the other & the a 2nd. connecting rod from the edge to point "A". now throw that mess all over the Universe...

Nothing changes.

Best 2 Ya.

Best 2 Ya.
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I believe that there is a relationship between the balls and pockets that lead to the shotline using a pivot method and visuals. I've been mulling it over for a few hours on the best way to discuss it. I can only see one way but we have to agree on some basic points. Without common ground there's not a prayer and I won't try. If you don't agree with my statements we can talk about them and try to work it out.

If the cue tip is placed on a different spot on the cue ball and then used to aim through CCB, the shot angle is different. It's how most people fine tune their aim at GB, CP, Quarters, etc.. It's a basic statement and everyone should agree.

The next points may need some discussion.

A move down table is equivalent to a cue ball rotation.

A half ball pivot will move 15* on the cue ball.

That should be enough to get thing started.


@ Dan -- Thanks a mullin :D
 
Pivot:
1/2 tip offset from center of the CB = ~.25"
Bridge distance behind the equator of the CB = 12"
After pivoting the center of the tip to the center of the CBThe included angle is ~1.19 degrees.

angle.PNG

The CB will travel away from the initial 1/2 tip line by 1.19 degrees post pivot all the way to the OB.

The distance between the CB and the OB matters.:
The greater the separation between the CB and the OB results in a thinner and different cut angle than if the CB and the OB are closer together.

To achieve the same cut angle for different CB to OB separation requires an adjustment:

like a different tip offset, a different distance of the bridge behind the CB or a different initial 1/2 tip pre-pivot aim line or perception of the cut angle that one must learn for themselves.

Have fun.:smile:
 
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LAMas said:
Pivot:
1/2 tip offset from center of the CB = ~25"
Bridge distance behind the equator of the CB = 12"
After pivoting the center of the tip to the center of the CBThe included angle is ~1.19 degrees.

View attachment 443608

The CB will travel away from the initial 1/2 tip line by 1.19 degrees post pivot all the way to the OB.

The distance between the CB and the OB matters.:
The greater the separation between the CB and the OB results in a thinner and different cut angle than if the CB and the OB are closer together.

To achieve the same cut angle for different CB to OB separation requires an adjustment:

like a different tip offset, a different distance of the bridge behind the CB or a different initial 1/2 tip pre-pivot aim line or perception of the cut angle that one must learn for themselves.

Have fun.:smile:
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Is this a triangle representing the cue tip as one side? Side a. The other sides are the bridge length? Looks like you may have missed a decimal point on the first statement.
 
Vorpal Cue said:
Is this a triangle representing the cue tip as one side? Side a. The other sides are the bridge length? Looks like you may have missed a decimal point on the first statement.
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Yes and thanks for noticing the missing decimal point as it is in the right triangle angle calculator. I enjoy and at times benefit from the peer reviews on AZB.
 
The 1/2 tip pivot

The 1/2 tip pivot holds up extremely well but that is not good enough. Anyone can experience the 1/2 tip amount problems if they try a 9mm shaft vs a 15mm shaft. The feeling of being trapped with no escape route was felt the most during my efforts of solving that issue.
I knew that CTE worked but how in the heck could I explain around the 1/2 tip pivot. I knew I was doomed if I couldn't even if the system did work with 1/2 pivots....with some slight adjustments almost not measurable at times.
I stopped writing for 3 months and was at my table 6 to 12 hours a day in search of an explanation for this critical life/death variable., I finally came to grips with what was occurring.....That was my toughest piece of the CTE puzzle to put in place!

Stan Shuffett
 
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stan shuffett said:
The 1/2 tip pivot holds up extremely well but that is not good enough. Anyone can experience the 1/2 tip amount problems if they try a 9mm shaft vs a 15mm shaft. The feeling of being trapped with no escape route was felt the most during my efforts of solving that issue.
I knew that CTE worked but how in the heck could I explain around the 1/2 tip pivot. I knew I was doomed if I couldn't even if the system did work with 1/2 pivots....with some slight adjustments almost not measurable at times.
I stopped writing for 3 months and was at my table 6 to 12 hours a day in search of an explanation for this critical life/death variable., I finally came to grips with what was occurring.....That was my toughest piece of the CTE puzzle to put in place!

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

Will the book be available as ebook or hard copy only?
 
Vorpal Cue said:
I believe that there is a relationship between the balls and pockets that lead to the shotline using a pivot method and visuals. I've been mulling it over for a few hours on the best way to discuss it. I can only see one way but we have to agree on some basic points. Without common ground there's not a prayer and I won't try. If you don't agree with my statements we can talk about them and try to work it out.

If the cue tip is placed on a different spot on the cue ball and then used to aim through CCB, the shot angle is different. It's how most people fine tune their aim at GB, CP, Quarters, etc.. It's a basic statement and everyone should agree.

The next points may need some discussion.

A move down table is equivalent to a cue ball rotation.

A half ball pivot will move 15* on the cue ball.

That should be enough to get thing started.


@ Dan -- Thanks a mullin :D
Click to expand...

Hi Larry,

I guess we will just have to stay in disagreement. It seems you are trying to do what others before you have attempted, which is to attempt to validate through their BELIEFS that Stan's CTE is complete in it's objectivity so much so that it indicates(by some ubknown means) the precise shot line for every shot even with a slight over cut to counter for the varying amounts of collision induced throw.

Please see Lamas's post above.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that cue ball "rotates". It is an opaque stationary object until it is put into motion after it is struck.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

PS I think you need to qualify your statement regarding the 1/2 ball pivot = 15*... ie bridge length & 15* of what... change in CB direction or do you mean 15* change in outcome angle after the collision with the OB... & a change FROM what.
 
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Have not been here in a while and I am no CTE master but after skimming a few threads on the topic I think I can point out where MOST of the confusion lies in the actual mechanics of the system. The main unaddressed problem seems to be with the ever changing location in the point of pivot. Long CB to OB distance, long pivot point, possibly pivot at back of cue. Short CB to OB distance, short pivot point, possible at the tip of cue. Goal for me (usually doesn't happen) is for CB to OB distance to allow for pivot point to be at my natural bridge. If you are going to be a little sloppy with lining up, accurate pivot point can get you there in most shots. Am I wrong here?
 
LAMas said:
Pivot:
1/2 tip offset from center of the CB = ~25"
Bridge distance behind the equator of the CB = 12"
After pivoting the center of the tip to the center of the CBThe included angle is ~1.19 degrees.

View attachment 443608

The CB will travel away from the initial 1/2 tip line by 1.19 degrees post pivot all the way to the OB.

The distance between the CB and the OB matters.:
The greater the separation between the CB and the OB results in a thinner and different cut angle than if the CB and the OB are closer together.

To achieve the same cut angle for different CB to OB separation requires an adjustment:

like a different tip offset, a different distance of the bridge behind the CB or a different initial 1/2 tip pre-pivot aim line or perception of the cut angle that one must learn for themselves.

Have fun.:smile:
Click to expand...

Thank you, Sir... for your...

Realities.:wink:

All the Best for You & Yours,

Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
Hi Larry,

I guess we will just have to stay in disagreement. It seems you are trying to do what others before you have attempted, which is to attempt to validate through their BELIEFS that Stan's CTE is complete in it's objectivity so much so that it indicates(by some ubknown means) the precise shot line for every shot even with a slight over cut to counter for the varying amounts of collision induced throw.

Please see Lamas's post above.

I have no idea what you mean when you say that cue ball "rotates". It is an opaque stationary object until it is put into motion after it is struck.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.
Click to expand...

Most players that have spent any real time with CTE know that something is happening......putting a description to what and how can be a decade long task or even never as a lifetime would fall way short for most.
Figuring out CTE is like looking for a needle in a ONE mile square haystack.

Stan Shuffett
 
Larry,

Do you remember our PM regarding the 'experiment' that mohrt had me try.

1.19* of 'difference'(1/2 tip pivot) was/is NOT enough to counter the approx. 15* of the visual to return to a straight in shot(at least not for the distance of the balls separation).

Perhaps mohrt misspoke & meant to say a 1/2 ball pivot, but I do not think so as the subject matter was Stan's version & not yours nor 90/90.

Best.
 
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