Pivoting systems and their relationship to CTE

[ENGLISH!]

Have not been here in a while and I am no CTE master but after skimming a few threads on the topic I think I can point out where MOST of the confusion lies in the actual mechanics of the system. The main unaddressed problem seems to be with the ever changing location in the point of pivot. Long CB to OB distance, long pivot point, possibly pivot at back of cue. Short CB to OB distance, short pivot point, possible at the tip of cue. Goal for me (usually doesn't happen) is for CB to OB distance to allow for pivot point to be at my natural bridge. If you are going to be a little sloppy with lining up, accurate pivot point can get you there in most shots. Am I wrong here?

I do not think you are wrong at all, but that only addresses that one issue.

But... it does help to indicate the enormity of any truly objective system...IF one could be contrive... & the fact that most normal human beings would not be incapable of implementing it...


& it would slow down the playing of the game with every player using a slide rule or calculator for very many shots.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Most players that have spent any real time with CTE know that something is happening......putting a description to what and how can be a decade long task or even never as a lifetime would fall way short for most.
Figuring out CTE is like looking for a needle in a ONE mile square haystack.

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

The answers are really very simple.

You just refuse to accept them, for whatever reason.

Would you please do me & perhaps us a favor & define exactly what you mean when you have said "visual intelligence"?

Best Wishes for You & Yours

 

[ENGLISH!]

His realities are GRRRRREAT! But they do not describe CTE in any way....not even close-the distance of Mars off.

Stan Shuffett

Lamas was NOT trying to describe your CTE. He was making a point of what a small change in angle that an objectively defined pivot of 1/2 tip has on the outcome.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

 

[stan shuffett]

Larry,

Do you remember our PM regarding the 'experiment' that mohrt had me try.

1.19* of 'difference'(1/2 tip pivot) was/is NOT enough to counter the approx. 15* of the visual to return to a straight in shot(at least not for the distance of the balls separation).

Perhaps mohrt misspoke & meant to say a 1/2 ball pivot, but I do not think so as the subject matter was Stan's version & not yours nor 90/90.

Best.

I will clue you in on a half ball pivot as you call it. When the tip is rotated to CCB that is half of the CB. Where the tip is flared out to away from center has nothing to do with anything.....Closer to center is better for visual reasons but not required. Bridge V placement drives the pivot whether the tip turns a smidge or half of the CB. They are each half ball pivots.

My absolute toughest shot to unlock and explain over the years has been the shots referenced as conventional straight ins. Straight ins in CTE are cut shots.,Why? Because angles are invisible and you never know if a shot is actually a perfect zero angle. In CTE, if you can't tell the cut side and choose the wrong side....the system will straighten it
out. It took years to get straight ins correct and for the straightening out results to manifest itself.........Oh well, I sure as hell would not be spending 30/40G on a book if I didn't have a lot of new depth into CTE and its application.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Elephant Man]

I do not think you are wrong at all, but that only addresses that one issue.

But... it does help to indicate the enormity of any truly objective system...If one could be contrive & the fact that most normal human beings would not be incapable of implementing it...


& it would slow down the playing of the game with every player using a slide rule or calculator for very many shots.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

Taking exact measurements would be useful in proving the system but not necessary in using the system. After all, a pocket is 2 balls wide, giving you a little room for slop and eliminating the need for exact measurements. I believe the magic pivot point location is 2/3 the distance between the CB and OB. So when your eyeball calculates .667 for pivot point location, the extra width of the pocket makes up for miscalculations of say .6 to .75. Techniques for pivoting at least pretty accurately at different locations might be where more attention needs to be focused.

 

[stan shuffett]

Lamas was NOT trying to describe your CTE. He was making a point of what a small change in angle that an objectively defined pivot of 1/2 tip has on the outcome.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

Excuse me! I guess I just figured that somehow it tied into the 1/2 tip pivot assertions that I have made over the past years. Proceed gentlemen.

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

Sir,

The answers are really very simple.

You just refuse to accept them, for whatever reason.

Would you please do me & perhaps us a favor & define exactly what you mean when you have said "visual intelligence"?

Best Wishes for You & Yours

VIsual Intelligence is one our multiple intelligences.
You are a word man and that speaks to your Linguistical Intelligence.
Pool is a visual game! I have worked with vision and CTE for over a decade now and I can assure this, putting the dang nose behind CCB is not the optimal way for seeing spheres. Like Hal,I chose to spend my time studying vision offsets away from center and the capability of one's vision for seeing spheres and their connection to right angles on a 2X1 surface. I figured out what Hal had discovered that is so critical with vision for objectively aligning to overcut shot lines.

Stan Shuffett

 

[LAMas]

Have not been here in a while and I am no CTE master but after skimming a few threads on the topic I think I can point out where MOST of the confusion lies in the actual mechanics of the system. The main unaddressed problem seems to be with the ever changing location in the point of pivot. Long CB to OB distance, long pivot point, possibly pivot at back of cue. Short CB to OB distance, short pivot point, possible at the tip of cue. Goal for me (usually doesn't happen) is for CB to OB distance to allow for pivot point to be at my natural bridge. If you are going to be a little sloppy with lining up, accurate pivot point can get you there in most shots. Am I wrong here?

You could also try different tip offsets pre-pivot.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I will clue you in on a half ball pivot as you call it. When the tip is rotated to CCB that is half of the CB. Where the tip is flared out to away from center has nothing to do with anything.....Closer to center is better for visual reasons but not required. Bridge V placement drives the pivot whether the tip turns a smidge or half of the CB. They are each half ball pivots.

My absolute toughest shot to unlock and explain over the years has been the shots referenced as conventional straight ins. Straight ins in CTE are cut shots.,Why? Because angles are invisible and you never know if a shot is actually a perfect zero angle. In CTE, if you can't tell the cut side and choose the wrong side....the system will straighten it
out. It took years to get straight ins correct and for the straightening out results to manifest itself.........Oh well, I sure as hell would not be spending 30/40G on a book if I didn't have a lot of new depth into CTE and its application.

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

Please do not take offense & please try to understand.

The above just seems to be another 'brain fart'.

You use a lot of words that basically convey nothing & much of what you say only gets you into more 'trouble'(Please see the Blue Text above).

I'm not going to pick apart what you say here other than to say that...

TO ME, it is nothing more than a Book Advertisement with a 'look at me & all of the time that I've spent & all the things that I think I have discovered' & including my significant monetary investment'.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum. One of the problems where Your CTE has been concerned is that all parties are not always 'discussing' the same subject...

AND... some parties are not even discussing ANY of the subjects but ONLY make personal 'attacks'.

You now seem to be in the MO of promotion with NO discussion.

IMO you are wasting the time of those that DO want to discuss matters & are causing diversions. (I can hear it coming.)

Perhaps it would be best, as Dan said, if you were to devote ALL of your time to your book & then come back when perhaps You DO want to participate in actual discussions.

Please do not misinterpret anything regarding my words here.

I am NOT trying to 'tell' you what to do... nor to drive you off.

I'm merely offering that as a suggestion for your consideration.

I would very much like it if You were to participate more fully... but... on each topic as is being discussed & others too when they are delineated as different topics.

ALL of what I say above is just for your considerations.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

PS Everyone that is not in total agreement with you on the subject is NOT a 'hater' & I do not think it wise of you to place everyone in the same pigeon hole & treat all the same. We all have different viewpoints & reasons for our disagreement with things that you've said regarding your version of CTE. Please take this under advisement & do with it what you will.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Excuse me! I guess I just figured that somehow it tied into the 1/2 tip pivot assertions that I have made over the past years. Proceed gentlemen.

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

I think it is preferred by some for green text to be used to denote sarcasm.

Obviously, the 1/2 tip pivot is in reference to Your CTE... but he was NOT trying to DESCRIBE your CTE.

He was making a simple point regarding the small limitations of a 1/2 tip pivot performed manually on a 12" pivot point distance from the CB.

 

[Elephant Man]

You could also try different tip offsets pre-pivot.

Which is not what I originally understood to be CTE. But a lot of people might be doing that and creating their own system and calling it CTE? So instead of finding different pivot points, they use different tip offsets, creating a hybrid aiming system.

 

[ENGLISH!]

VIsual Intelligence is one our multiple intelligences.
You are a word man and that speaks to your Linguistical Intelligence.
Pool is a visual game! I have worked with vision and CTE for over a decade now and I can assure this, putting the dang nose behind CCB is not the optimal way for seeing spheres. Like Hal,I chose to spend my time studying vision offsets away from center and the capability of one's vision for seeing spheres and their connection to right angles on a 2X1 surface. I figured out what Hal had discovered that is so critical with vision for objectively aligning to overcut shot lines.

Stan Shuffett

Thank you much.

I think you may be (unintentionally) misusing the word Intelligence in that coined phrase as you have others.

What exactly do you mean by the word objectively in your last sentence?

Thanks again for the attempted definition of the contrived phrase "visual intelligence' & in advance should you continue.

The following are for reference as to normal usages.

in·tel·li·gence
inˈteləjəns/
noun
1.
the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.
"an eminent man of great intelligence"
synonyms: intellectual capacity, mental capacity, intellect, mind, brain(s), IQ, brainpower, judgment, reasoning, understanding, comprehension; More

objectivly

not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion. 6. intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings...

 

[ENGLISH!]

You could also try different tip offsets pre-pivot.

:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:

But would 'we' not then be deviating from the 'system'?:wink:

And what IF the cue is originally set on an angle?

All the Best for you & Yours.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Which is not what I originally understood to be CTE. But a lot of people might be doing that and creating their own system and calling it CTE? So instead of finding different pivot points, they use different tip offsets, creating a hybrid aiming system.

:thumbup2:

Or... other variations or combinations of variations...

that they have subconsciously incorporated to get the supposed 'system' to work for them...

And they would still say that they are using 'the system'.

What do you think?

 

[LAMas]

:thumbup2:

Or... other variations or combinations of variations...

that they have subconsciously incorporated to get the supposed 'system' to work for them...

And they would still say that they are using 'the system'.

What do you think?

These adjustments have to be memorized to be effective and the recalling of them is a conscious act.

 

[stan shuffett]

Sir,

Please do not take offense & please try to understand.

The above just seems to be another 'brain fart'.

You use a lot of words that basically convey nothing & much of what you say only gets you into more 'trouble'(Please see the Blue Text above).

I'm not going to pick apart what you say here other than to say that...

TO ME, it is nothing more than a Book Advertisement with a 'look at me & all of the time that I've spent & all the things that I think I have discovered' & including my significant monetary investment'.

This is supposed to be a discussion forum. One of the problems where Your CTE has been concerned is that all parties are not always 'discussing' the same subject...

AND... some parties are not even discussing ANY of the subjects but ONLY make personal 'attacks'.

You now seem to be in the MO of promotion with NO discussion.

IMO you are wasting the time of those that DO want to discuss matters & are causing diversions. (I can hear it coming.)

Perhaps it would be best, as Dan said, if you were to devote ALL of your time to your book & then come back when perhaps You DO want to participate in actual discussions.

Please do not misinterpret anything regarding my words here.

I am NOT trying to 'tell' you what to do... nor to drive you off.

I'm merely offering that as a suggestion for your consideration.

I would very much like it if You were to participate more fully... but... on each topic as is being discussed & others too when they are delineated as different topics.

ALL of what I say above is just for your considerations.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

PS Everyone that is not in total agreement with you on the subject is NOT a 'hater' & I do not think it wise of you to place everyone in the same pigeon hole & treat all the same. We all have different viewpoints & reasons for our disagreement with things that you've said regarding your version of CTE. Please take this under advisement & do with it what you will.

I think there may many that appreciate my sharing even If I am only providing glimpses into the refinements that will be fully shared later when my book is finished. The refinements will be free to the public.

Please know that my work is about what Hal knew and not squat about my version. I would be gone in a heartbeat if it were about MY verssion. There is only one real version of CTE.

I am trying to get off of here. Thx for your encouragement. And if you ever want to squelch my book project, you can be the hero and take me down.
I am willing to present to a panel of unbiased players about whether I can explain CTE to be book worthy or not. I would welcome a debate from an accomplished word man. I would kill you with the visual side. Would be a joke!!

Stan Shuffett

 

[Elephant Man]

:thumbup2:

Or... other variations or combinations of variations...

that they have subconsciously incorporated to get the supposed 'system' to work for them...

And they would still say that they are using 'the system'.

What do you think?

I think the pivot distance, be it 1/2 tip or half ball, should be the same for every shot (except for maybe straight in shots?).
I think the pivot location is what should change.
I think changing pivot distance is a variation of the CTE method.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think it may be past time to say that whatever anyone is doing to garner success is ALL that matters regardless of what anything is termed or called...

& if an individual believes that the pool gods whisper the actual shot lines into their ear...

then that is what is happening... for them.

In fact... that is not too far off of what I believe...

in that God has certainly helped me in many instances.

We are merely trying to delineate the facts of matters regarding the proper language so as to not be misleading.

And... to show what is actually happening in FACT & in Reality.

There just happens to be at least TWO(2) lines of thought on exactly what that is.

And, all sides have their own reasoning or belief system for their position.

God helping me... may not be the reality of it... It may have only been 'my' subconscious mind correcting my conscious mind...

or... it could have been God.

Best Wishes for ALL & Your Families & Friends,
Rick

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think there may many that appreciate my sharing even If I am only providing glimpses into the refinements that will be fully shared later when my book is finished. The refinements will be free to the public.

Please know that my work is about what Hal knew and not squat about my version. I would be gone in a heartbeat if it were about MY verssion. There is only one real version of CTE.

I am trying to get off of here. Thx for your encouragement. And if you ever want to squelch my book project, you can be the hero and take me down.
I am willing to present to a panel of unbiased players about whether I can explain CTE to be book worthy or not. I would welcome a debate from an accomplished word man. I would kill you with the visual side. Would be a joke!!

Stan Shuffett

Sir,

Thank You for the 'civility'... I was a bit worried.

Language is basically all that we have with which to communicate our ideas, etc. & it is extremely important that it be used correctly so as to NOT have mis-communications & to not mislead by using it incorrectly or...to have NO communication.

Your book WILL use words... AND... it WILL use language.

I have no doubt that because of all of the focused time that you have spent & invested that you have 'discovered' matters that were new to you & would be beneficial to others... and to me.

Hell, I thought that I had invented or discovered equal & opposite overlap in 1968 when I was 13 years old.

I would ask you to please keep in mind where I am concerned, that I was rather excited & intrigued when I heard John Barton mention 'a totally objective aiming system'...

& that I was rather disappointed to have may concerns confirmed when I saw your 5 shots video.

Perhaps your new explanation of those 5 shots will do something regarding that matter concerning me. I don't know... but I just don't see that happening.

Beiber's thread made reference to some men of science. There are Scientific Laws... but true scientists never close their minds...

& my mind is not closed... it just takes factual keys to get it to come out.

Best Wishes for You & Yours.

PS I hope you at least recoup your costs where you book is concerned. Your investment of your money AND your TIME certainly confirms your conviction of purpose.

 

[Elephant Man]

Please send me a link, picture, diagram on napkin of those 5 shots in question. I will try to mathematically prove them on my table using the same pivot distance and a 2/3 pivot point.