Stan's Curious Curtain Video

[Dan White]

Recently JB posted to one of my videos asking me to perform the shots in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJTJh05FEKw&t=0s

In looking at it, I noticed something curious. If you look at all the hole reinforcers on the table they are pure white, except the one the cue ball sits on. In addition, there is a patch of chalk dust in a triangular pattern in front of the reinforcer. Anybody who uses reinforcers knows that the cloth turns darker after the cue ball runs over it enough times, and chalk builds up on the table after many, many tip/cue ball impacts. I think we can all agree that these statements are clearly true. As a side note, I have the same color cloth and Masters chalk turns dark grey on the cloth.

How does this happen when, according to the video, this is Stan's first attempt at this shot? To the cult members, this may be a laughable thing to bring up, but sometimes the best theories in science are doomed when they can't explain the simplest, most innocent observations. Anybody care to take a stab at it?

 

[poolplayher]

Maybe he was practicing the shots without the curtain then when he was ready he set up the curtains and Camera .:. Dunno


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 

[stan shuffett]

I clearly remember that video.

First of all, the dot that you reference in trying to discredit me is one that is used more than any other diamond intersection location on my table. I use that location for personal diagonal stop, follow and draw practice almost daily into the opposite corner.

But to answer your sleazy-sleazeball question......I used that dot during a morning session and then had lunch and upon return to my table for an afternoon session I did that video on first attempt.


Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

I clearly remember that video.

First of all, the dot that you reference in trying to discredit me is one that is used more than any other diamond intersection location on my table. I use that location for personal diagonal stop, follow and draw practice almost daily into the opposite corner.

But to answer your sleazy-sleazeball question......I used that dot during a morning session and then had lunch and upon return to my table for an afternoon session I did that video on first attempt.


Stan Shuffett

You call it sleazy but I call it a fair question. Personally I would welcome skeptical questions like this because it would make what I'm trying to sell appear that much more vetted.

I understand your answer regarding the dirty hole reinforcer. You use it for diagonal shots in the opposite corner. How do you account for the chalk on the cloth that is in direct line with the object ball hole reinforcer, which DOES NOT line up with the opposite corner pocket?

 

[stan shuffett]

You call it sleazy but I call it a fair question. Personally I would welcome skeptical questions like this because it would make what I'm trying to sell appear that much more vetted.

I understand your answer regarding the dirty hole reinforcer. You use it for diagonal shots in the opposite corner. How do you account for the chalk on the cloth that is in direct line with the object ball hole reinforcer, which DOES NOT line up with the opposite corner pocket?

I had a student request to do those shots on video. Almost every student that comes through my door goes through the entire set of shots for DVD1. The set-up in question is my only 4 way multi-shot on my first DVD. I also had 1 or 2 students that week.

Not only did I decide to do a video for those shots I decided that I would use the curtain with my students for those shots for l demo purposes. I clearly remember thinking of that as a good idea so I set up the shots and practiced them that morning for a dual purpose...for students and a video.

If want to challenge me on blind shots head to head, come on.......and bring ANYONE else that you wish for the same challenge.

To bring that up you are nothing more than a nit....... $$ $$$$ $$$$$$$$

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

... I set up the shots and practiced them that morning for a dual purpose...for students and a video.

At 3:40 in the video you state, "I actually made this on the first try that I set it up." This clearly implies that you "set up" the shot, meaning you put the hole reinforcers on the table, and then you turned on the video and executed the shots as shown in one attempt.

In reality, you practiced the shot enough times to have left enough chalk residue on the table to be visible on an amateur resolution camera. Only you will know how many of those practice runs were caught on camera before you got it right.

If want to challenge me on blind shots head to head, come on.......and bring ANYONE else that you wish for the same challenge.

To bring that up you are nothing more than a nit....... $$ $$$$ $$$$$$$$

Stan Shuffett

I'm sorry if I bruised your ego, but if you were a true man of science you wouldn't be taking this so personally. I do give you credit for actually admitting that you practiced the shot before videoing it. I can also accept your explanation of why the hole reinforcer is dark -- you use that same reinforcer for many shots. I'll accept that on face value, especially since you've owned up to not making the video on the first attempt.

Not to confuse the original issue, but the fact that you practiced this shot all morning begs a question: If the visuals are objective, meaning that you do not need the pocket or rails as a guide, then why all the practice to get it right? Surely by how you know how to aim all of your objective visuals. Why is is any harder with or without the curtain?

 

[stan shuffett]

At 3:40 in the video you state, "I actually made this on the first try that I set it up." This clearly implies that you "set up" the shot, meaning you put the hole reinforcers on the table, and then you turned on the video and executed the shots as shown in one attempt.

In reality, you practiced the shot enough times to have left enough chalk residue on the table to be visible on an amateur resolution camera. Only you will know how many of those practice runs were caught on camera before you got it right.



I'm sorry if I bruised your ego, but if you were a true man of science you wouldn't be taking this so personally. I do give you credit for actually admitting that you practiced the shot before videoing it. I can also accept your explanation of why the hole reinforcer is dark -- you use that same reinforcer for many shots. I'll accept that on face value, especially since you've owned up to not making the video on the first attempt.

Not to confuse the original issue, but the fact that you practiced this shot all morning begs a question: If the visuals are objective, meaning that you do not need the pocket or rails as a guide, then why all the practice to get it right? Surely by how you know how to aim all of your objective visuals. Why is is any harder with or without the curtain?

First off......GFY! You are likely the biggest nit on the forum......Do not twist my words and try to and make me look like a liar.........I put the curtain up and executed the shots the first time. I practice what I demo for students.......teaching and demo is tough and the same goes for the distractions that go with videoing. I was proud to make them in my first video attempt........Get a life! Nit!

Stan Shuffett

 

[Neil]

Dan, a short while ago, you stated that you would leave CTE alone. Yet, here you are, proving but one thing. And that thing is that you have zero intention of learning CTE, but are only here to grasp at any straw you think you can find to discredit CTE and especially Stan. Thanks for showing beyond any doubt what you are about.

You aren't here to try and help anyone. You are here simply to see what you can destroy. And in doing that, you make this whole forum less of a place anyone wants to be at.

 

[Dan White]

First off......GFY! You are likely the biggest nit on the forum......Do not twist my words and try to and make me look like a liar.........I put the curtain up and executed the shots the first time. I practice what I demo for students.......teaching and demo is tough and the same goes for the distractions that go with videoing. I was proud to make them in my first video attempt........Get a life! Nit!

Stan Shuffett

Only on AZ can someone practice a group of shots all morning, and then at the same time claim he made it on the first try. JB would be proud.

I can only go by what you are saying, not what you meant to say, which apparently still isn't quite clear. No wonder it is going to take 35 chapters.

I'm beginning to become more interested in your anger rather than the shots themselves. Are you so high and mighty that you must not be questioned? I don't get it.

 

[mohrt]

What I do know is, Stan would gladly setup and execute this on someone else's table, given that the table is in adequate conditions (good cloth, rails, etc.) he would no doubt be able to reproduce the results in similar consistency. Maybe on the first try, maybe not. You always have table conditions and human error at play. What I'm getting at here, is that he uses the CTE system to pocket these balls, not by memorizing chalk lines or familiarizing himself with one exact setup. For instance, you could move the balls slightly, or in two other locations for completely different shot examples, and CTE execution on them should be as consistent as the shot setup given here. I have also setup this specific shot many times and executed them using CTE. Admittedly I have not tried it with the two curtains, as I don't have them readily available on my table. Stan uses these specific locations because it is on DVD 1, students can setup the same shots and be 100% certain of the same visuals for practice, and it is easy to setup hole reinforcers on diamonds for quick ball resets.

So as for the question, could this be shot memorization on chalk lines? Sure it *could* be done that way, technically. But it could also be quickly dismissed with an in-person demonstration.

 

[Dan White]

Dan, a short while ago, you stated that you would leave CTE alone. Yet, here you are, proving but one thing. And that thing is that you have zero intention of learning CTE, but are only here to grasp at any straw you think you can find to discredit CTE and especially Stan. Thanks for showing beyond any doubt what you are about.

You aren't here to try and help anyone. You are here simply to see what you can destroy. And in doing that, you make this whole forum less of a place anyone wants to be at.

I was minding my own business when JB posts up a challenge for me to reproduce the curtain shots. I noticed by accident the dark reinforcer and chalk smudge. I find details like that interesting. They can say a lot.

We both know that book ain't coming out this year.

 

[stan shuffett]

I was minding my own business when JB posts up a challenge for me to reproduce the curtain shots. I noticed by accident the dark reinforcer and chalk smudge. I find details like that interesting. They can say a lot.

We both know that book ain't coming out this year.

I said on video that I made the shots on my first curtain attempt. That is true. I went to my table directly after a break for lunch and did the set up and was successful on my first series. I was proud to mention that fact because that is quite atypical.....So if you think I am I liar........GFY!

Stan Shuffett

 

[stan shuffett]

I was minding my own business when JB posts up a challenge for me to reproduce the curtain shots. I noticed by accident the dark reinforcer and chalk smudge. I find details like that interesting. They can say a lot.

We both know that book ain't coming out this year.

The book will be completed this year.......I can not speak for my book publisher and their time table....

You must really GET OFF calling me a liar.......

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

For instance, you could move the balls slightly, or in two other locations for completely different shot examples, and CTE execution on them should be as consistent as the shot setup given here.

To my knowledge, that has never been demonstrated on video. I'd like to see the same curtain demonstration with someone else placing the two balls and then specifying which pocket to pocket the cue ball.

Stan uses these specific locations because it is on DVD 1, students can setup the same shots and be 100% certain of the same visuals for practice, and it is easy to setup hole reinforcers on diamonds for quick ball resets.

So if he is using a known placement of hole reinforcers that he has used many times, why does he need to practice the shot all morning on his home table? If all there were to it was to pick CTE ETA and go, why all the practice?

So as for the question, could this be shot memorization on chalk lines? Sure it *could* be done that way, technically. But it could also be quickly dismissed with an in-person demonstration.

Or a video demonstration with an independent person placing the balls at random, which has never been done. And again, this would only prove that the shooter was good at banks, not how he did it.

Stan would do well to have an ounce of your civility.

 

[Neil]

I was minding my own business when JB posts up a challenge for me to reproduce the curtain shots. I noticed by accident the dark reinforcer and chalk smudge. I find details like that interesting. They can say a lot.

We both know that book ain't coming out this year.

I don't know that at all. Just how is it that you do? Oh, wait, you really don't. You just used that as another excuse to knock Stan.

I will say, you must make your mentor, English!, very proud! Your mother, and anyone else, not so much. What a sad way to live when all you have is tearing things down that you know next to nothing about.

 

[Dan White]

I said on video that I made the shots on my first curtain attempt. That is true. I went to my table directly after a break for lunch and did the set up and was successful on my first series. I was proud to mention that fact because that is quite atypical.....So if you think I am I liar........GFY!

Stan Shuffett

No, you didn't say that. It appears you are massaging things around.

But, to restore civility to this thread, let me rephrase what you are saying:

On video, you said you did it on your first try after setting it up. You are now clarifying to say that you practiced the shot repeatedly during the morning (with or without the curtain isn't clear), went to lunch, came back, pulled the curtain over the table, and made the shots. Is that a fair statement?

Also, the only one using ad hominem attacks and using the word "liar" is you.

 

[mohrt]

Or a video demonstration with an independent person placing the balls at random, which has never been done. And again, this would only prove that the shooter was good at banks, not how he did it.

I want to note, there would be a huge difference if we are using curtains or not for this demonstration. Without curtains, I believe a demonstration where an independent person is placing balls at random would be completely valid.

If you are talking about doing this with curtains on the table, now you are questioning ones ability to determine the correct CTE visual for a specific shot with curtains in place. I don't think this is the intent of the curtain shots. The curtains are there to demonstrate that we don't need to see the pocket to make the shot, once we know the correct visual. Given the setup with hole reinforcers, we already know what CTE visuals are required for a specific shot, so we are just limiting ourselves the execution of the visual, not determining the visual. IMHO I think you need to see the entire playing surface to accurately determine visuals, which is what a normal playing environment is anyways.

Now, if you had an independent shooter place the balls, then the shooter could identify which CTE visual was proper, and THEN drop a curtain into place before execution, that could also be a valid demonstration.

 

[stan shuffett]

No, you didn't say that. It appears you are massaging things around.

But, to restore civility to this thread, let me rephrase what you are saying:

On video, you said you did it on your first try after setting it up. You are now clarifying to say that you practiced the shot repeatedly during the morning (with or without the curtain isn't clear), went to lunch, came back, pulled the curtain over the table, and made the shots. Is that a fair statement?

Also, the only one using ad hominem attacks and using the word "liar" is you.

I am not exactly sure what your MO is but my bottom line is that I did those shots in one take and if you don't like it...FO.

I do not remember my exact routine that morning other than I decided to hit those shots because they were requested. I don't know what your idiotic implication exactly is but if you are questioning my integrity I'd be happy for you to do it to my face. Only a first order fricken nit would peel away at that video and try and tear me down with chalks marks on a dot.......

And then to top it all you tell me that I know my boook is not coming out this year. What is that all about???

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

I am not exactly sure what your MO is but my bottom line is that I did those shots in one take and if you don't like it...FO.

It's quite simple. Some guy on the internet claims he can pocket balls all over the place without seeing most of the table, and he can even do it on his first try. I happen to notice evidence that you practiced the shot A LOT. I don't think I am out of bounds for bringing that up for discussion.

Your answer is that you practiced the shot but because you weren't recording it it doesn't count as practice. You did it on the first recorded try. OK, fine. Case closed.

I do not remember my exact routine that morning other than I decided to hit those shots because they were requested. I don't know what your idiotic implication exactly is but if you are questioning my integrity I'd be happy for you to do it to my face. Only a first order fricken nit would peel away at that video and try and tear me down with chalks marks on a dot.......

The implication is that you did practice the shot but didn't tell your audience. It looks more impressive that way.

Look, here's another out for you that I could understand. Maybe this video is only intended for your students and you are being casual or sloppy with your description because you are addressing a very specific issue that was asked of you. In the future, if that is the case, it might do you well to add comments to that effect in the title section before posting a video world-wide for all to see. Or, how about make it a private video for the people requesting you to make it?

And then to top it all you tell me that I know my boook is not coming out this year. What is that all about???

Stan Shuffett

It is my guess based only on your comments as to the magnitude of the work ahead of you, and your uncertainty in getting it all done.

Why do you have to practice a shot that is in DVD1 and that relies solely on selecting one of your visuals on your home table? If you guys could stop seeing red for a moment you'd realize that's a pretty good question.

 

[stan shuffett]

It's quite simple. Some guy on the internet claims he can pocket balls all over the place without seeing most of the table, and he can even do it on his first try. I happen to notice evidence that you practiced the shot A LOT. I don't think I am out of bounds for bringing that up for discussion.

Your answer is that you practiced the shot but because you weren't recording it it doesn't count as practice. You did it on the first recorded try. OK, fine. Case closed.



The implication is that you did practice the shot but didn't tell your audience. It looks more impressive that way.

Look, here's another out for you that I could understand. Maybe this video is only intended for your students and you are being casual or sloppy with your description because you are addressing a very specific issue that was asked of you. In the future, if that is the case, it might do you well to add comments to that effect in the title section before posting a video world-wide for all to see. Or, how about make it a private video for the people requesting you to make it?



It is my guess based only on your comments as to the magnitude of the work ahead of you, and your uncertainty in getting it all done.

Why do you have to practice a shot that is in DVD1 and that relies solely on selecting one of your visuals on your home table? If you guys could stop seeing red for a moment you'd realize that's a pretty good question.

I do not get your point. I am in constant practice and play on my table....whether I am videoing or not.

I really hate spoon feeding you everything but your ignorance requires it. My table at that time was just equipped with new rails and a new cloth. I am certain that you do not understand that since 3 of those shots are banks....the variables of speed and spin come into play. Humidity can also change banks from day to day in Kentucky.

Someone please chime in here if I am out of line with that video and the way it was done.

Also, ANYONE of any level that has questions about the integrity of my blind shooting, please stop by and see it for yourself........and report back to AZ what you saw.

Stan Shuffett