Ummm...because both are pool leagues? Who cares if one is a for-profit business and one isn't. They both have an identical purpose.
League pool
- Thread starter Colormegone2002
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Ummm...because both are pool leagues? Who cares if one is a for-profit business and one isn't. They both have an identical purpose.
You chose not to respond to the rest of my statement. Their business models are completely different which means the way they're operated will be very sofferent. You cannot be this dense and choosing to beat your BCA drum with no regards to the cost of owning & operating each respective league.
No...I hold 10 similar-type tourneys per year (and sometimes more) and I run them all by myself. I get there at 5:30 pm to level and clean all the tables and to provide new chalk (which I buy). Then at 11:30 pm I help the bartender out by collecting all empties and i put away all house cues and clean up trash.
Yes, as a matter of fact. Different nights but similar lengths of time. And yes, I run the whole thing by myself.
Not at the present moment but for ten years I ran two weekly city tournaments (by myself) that totaled 10 hrs/wk or 500 hrs/yr.
Of course. In a way. The league software that I designed, wrote, and implemented took hundreds if not thousands of hours to make, and that software makes it a snap to see who belongs and who doesn't. And I design and print a new custom 36x36" bracket for every major league tourney (CLICK HERE TO SEE A CUSTOM 48-PLAYER BRACKET I MADE RECENTLY)
In order to maintain the WORLD'S BEST POOL LEAGUE WEBSITE (which I also designed) I spend approx 10 hours a week....
1. Entering match data into our custom online database (which I wrote and maintain)
2. Updating the player database and adding player photos to each player's PERSONAL STATS PAGE
3. Analyzing all weekly matches and writing NEWSPAPER-STYLE COMMENTARY on every match
4. Analyzing all weekly player performances so that I can choose the PLAYERS OF THE WEEK plus a dozen or so honorable mentions
Oh, and I also create a WEEKLY STATS AND STANDINGS PDF that can be downloaded by teams and given to players that do not have web access.
And I designed and had printed custom league score sheets and envelopes, which I personally deliver to all sponsor locations.
And many seasons I design and have made custom prizes LIKE THESE POWDER-COATED and ENGRAVED TRIANGLES.
And does your league HAVE AN ONLINE STORE where players can buy custom league shirts and other cool stuff?
Oh and did I mention that our world's best league website has a PC VERSION and a MOBILE VERSION? I know of no other pool league in the world that does.
All of our league tourneys are free for our league members as well.
No but I used to run, officiate, and compete in the South Coast 8-Ball Challenge which was a multi-league, three-day (all-day) team event held in Simi Valley. I hope to restart that event soon as it was very popular.
And BTW money taken from league fees and put into your pocket which then gets becomes added money to a tournament is not OUT OF YOUR POCKET but it's out of your players' pockets.
Since the ACS and BCAPL both allow ANY team or individual to sign up for their national Vegas tourneys, we do not apportion our payout money to "send" a team to Vegas. We ALL go to Vegas EVERY year. Doesn't that sound fun? And every year our cash payouts to teams and individuals totals roughly $25,000. Individuals then have the CHOICE to use that money towards their trip to Vegas or for other things. At last year's BCAPL Nationals our league "sent" 8 teams to the 8-ball tourney and 7 teams to the 9-ball team tourney.
See the previous answer for money allocation. At last year's BCAPL Nationals our league "sent" 5 scotch doubles teams.
See the previous answer for money allocation. At last year's BCAPL Nationals our league "sent" 17 players to the 8-ball singles and 5 players to the 9-ball singles tournaments
In our modest league of 120 players, OVER 50 OF THEM WENT TO LAS VEGAS TO COMPETE. Fifty. Five-Zero. Only a handful of BCAPL leagues in the country send more players to Vegas
Not really sure what you mean by "free play to bye fill teams". But we have two banquets a year for our two sessions, and at each banquet we have a raffle with thousands of dollars in prizes including about 40 coupons for free weeks of play, and one lucky winner gets a free session.
Well what do you know. This idea is AWESOME!! And I will use it starting next session.
Let me correct you. YOU don't pay ANYTHING to send a team to Hawaii. Your players do. And no, at present neither the ACS nor the BCAPL have events in Hawaii. But when they do, we will be sending people there.
Look, we can go toe-to-toe like this all day long and you will lose every day and twice on Sundays. Because I do at least as much work than you do at a much higher quality and for hardly any money.
Why, you ask, would I do so much without being compensated? Because that's my choice. This is my HOBBY, and it is also my way of giving back to society.
I do not have a problem with any LO being compensated for their work, especially if that is their sole source of income. You sound like an enthusiast LO who cares deeply about the players in your league, and that is great.
I wish there were more like you.
In the BCAPL.
Where your players would have way more fun.
No, they are almost identical. The ONLY thing that differs is the franchise aspect.
See post #83. We do more work and offer WAY more to our players than any similarly sized APA league.
It's humorous you find the fact that one is a franchise and the other isn't as a small detail.
Did you plunk down lets just say $250,000 to own/run your BCA league?
What would stop me from coming and starting up my BCA league named APA Lovers right in your city?
What percentage of BCA LO's can make a living running a BCA league?
Wouldn't you say these factors could/would/should/do play into how much an APA owner makes/keeps?
How many players in your league can't run 2-3 balls? Probably none. In the APA, these players are SOUGHT after. Many players like this find it intimidating to play higher skill level players and WOULD NEVER play BCA. Hence, both leagues are going after a different demographic of player.
You ASSume that because you've talked to Frank, Eddie, and Joey and they hate their APA experience that it's the norm. It's not. MANY people love the APA. I play both and find the fact I can go to Vegas if I want (for BCA) and the fact you have to EARN your way their different, but charming. Neither is better IMO.
And you've said "if I had time" and "similarly sized APA". They're bigger. Do you believe your time isn't worth anything? For you to run several leagues you'd need to either quit your job or hire help. That money coming out of your pocket?
I don't expect people to like the same things but it'd be nice for beginning people who haven't played leagues not see complete and utter bullshit on this site. The APA doesn't suck. If people can't at least understand and appreciate these people are making a living doing this and it is a full time job then these people have many things to learn.
Hate on, hater...
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Banks
Banned
They're identical in the same way as chicken and steak.
Not terribly impressed with a socal league sending the most players a short car ride to vegas.
The leagues around here are absolute money making monsters. They milk it too. No practice time at all, why would they all want that it's less people will be buying drinks.
I hate them. I think they are a giant proverbial leech on pool: a sport that has nothing to leech. But leave it to them to soak up any money there is in this wasteland. It's smart business as I see it but it sucks big time. If there were no leagues around me I'd estimate that about 50 percent of that money could instead be exchanged beteween the players throUgh gambling and tournaments. Just plain sucks. It would be like having terminal cancer and then getting diagnosed with emphazema.
I hate them. I think they are a giant proverbial leech on pool: a sport that has nothing to leech. But leave it to them to soak up any money there is in this wasteland. It's smart business as I see it but it sucks big time. If there were no leagues around me I'd estimate that about 50 percent of that money could instead be exchanged beteween the players throUgh gambling and tournaments. Just plain sucks. It would be like having terminal cancer and then getting diagnosed with emphazema.
When it comes to the services that the APA and BCAPL offer its players, whether or not one is a franchise is immaterial.
The BCAPL would not allow you to start a BCAPL sanctioned league in Santa Barbara that plays on the same night that we do. If you tried to start one on a different night, my guess is the BCAPL would contact me and ask me if I had a problem with that. If I did object, I would probably have to start my own league on that night.
I have no idea how many BCAPL LO's make a living running pool leagues. Probably very few. But your question goes to the heart of my main complaint about the APA. That many league operators are doing what they do to make a living, and not a side job. Thus they HAVE to pocket huge percentage of league fees in order to survive and pay off the loan for the franchise fee.
Believe it or not we have MANY players that can't run 2-3 balls. In a league with no handicaps. In my 15 years as LO I haven't been able to fully explain why these players come back year after year when they are not winning many games and not winning any money. But you know what is funny? Currently, at the start of the season, we randomly split our teams into two divisions. But years ago I tried to have Gold and Silver divisions, based on team strength. You know who were my biggest complainers? The players who can't run 2-3 balls. They all said that they enjoy playing against the really good players. Our league does not go after a specific demographic of player. Most teams are composed of groups of friends that want to hang out, drink, and play pool. Then there are the teams that jockey around players between seasons, trying to make themselves more competitive. It has been my experience that while those teams may win more money at the end of the season, they don't have a lot of fun getting there. One of my biggest complaints about the APA is that the rule of 23 destroys team unity.
You have a valid point. Maybe other APA league pay out more/differently. But time and time again I see the same complaints here on AZB that I hear from my players about the APA. And with respect to qualifying for Vegas, I guess it would be a lot more special if you or your team earned their way their as opposed to bought their way there. But that goes directly towards the differing business models.
The beauty of a small league is that a few dedicated individuals can make it awesome without needing a lot of compensation. You are right, the bigger we get, the more money I would have to demand. Which would hurt the quality of the league, with respect to the money available for the players.
I totally disagree. I think people should KNOW when they join a league what they can expect in return.
A pool league is a pool league. You have teams of players who play against each other either match style or round robin style. Matches are handicapped or they aren't. Players pay a membership fee and weekly league fees. There are playoffs and tourneys for individuals and teams, and the league pays the top finishers. The way I see it, the only major difference is the size of the pool of money available to give back to the players.
Maybe you aren't impressed, but we have dozens of players who have in the past played in other leagues in other locations around the country, and every one of them have told me that our league is by far the best league they have ever played in. So I must be doing something right.
Banks
Banned
Then the way you see it is different than just about everyone else.
Good for you. Now, if we could just find another 500 people that want to spend all of their spare time doing things for almost free, that would be wonderful. I don't see bca reaching their hand across the aisle. Hell, i don't see them doing anything locally that doesn't just benefit the bca.
In my dozen or so years, ive maintained more of an active presence in the apa league here. The competition may be a little tougher on average in the bca, but being on a "team" means next to nothing and the players aren't usually as much fun. Apa is a casual night out with friends for me.
Chicken and steak.
I guess I agree with you somewhat. Have a good night.
SB.....i have taken a liking to you although you are full of shit concerning a few of your opinions about apa..
The reason I have taken a liking to you is your passion. You are as passionate about your league as I am about apa. Btw I am not a league operator.
I have no problem with you extolling the benefits of playing in your league or bcapl in general. My problem with you is your constant degradation of apa every time you get a chance.
I dont have a problem with bcapl....matter of fact I like it...heck I think all leagues are good for pool . I just dont like the holier than though attitude displayed by quite a few bcapl members such as your self. I saw the same attitude from local players in my area when i used to play bcapl.
Believe it or not...a few years ago I thought about starting a bcapl league in my area. I was going to start one mainly to have something to do when I get too old to di the strenuos physical work I currently do and hopefully make a few bucks off it.
I started talking to friends and players I know in apa about it and once i saw they still hold a grudge against bcapl for the last lo screwing them out of money and saying they would never play bcapl again i ended all thoughts of starting a league.
I am not naive....at least i dont think so.:grin:
I know there are shyster lo's out there just as there are darn good ones.
Upon reflection.....i guess when I defend apa like I do on here all the time I am defending my apa operator in particular. Dont get me wrong...there were a few times back when I was fairly new to spa he pissed me off .
The more I interacted with him the more I realized he was not the.....money grubbing asshole.....dont have a clue what's going on in his league....looks the other way on sandbagging issues....has a hard on for me and raised my handicap lo that too many people associate with apa lo's.
You asked earlier about bye fill teams. A bye fill team is a team that is put together to fill a division that has an odd number of teams...in effect one team would sit out every week due to not having an opponent...in other words they would have a bye that week.if you put together a team to fill that empty spot the ever player on that team plays free the entire session.
Our lo also plays on several teams a week. Every player on that team only pays half price for their matches....he pays the other half out of his pocket
Now some people would as they probably think it would smack of favoritism.
I am not going to bash bcapl here but apa has rules in place that prevents favoritism from lo's towards teams he may play on.
Apa lo's are forbidden to play for teams in playoffs or higher level tournaments therefore have no monetary interest in teams he may play on advancing towards nationals. I have heard .....yea but he helped them he to playoffs. The way I look at is ...if they get through playoffs....tri cups...ltc's without him they never needed him in order to make playoffs. The upside to lo's playing on teams is seeing firsthand getting to know ever player personally and seeing firsthand players ablilty without just relying on scoresheets
Bcapl has no rules forbidding lo's from playing in any tournament including nationals which could lead to lo's having a monetary interest in His personal advancing and bending rules to.see that they do advance and a few have been caught doing exactly that. The thing is ...how many have done it and have not got caught ?