Learn with an aiming system or not

[JoeyA]

Mike81,

My personal view is that you will learn how to aim better and faster when you are first learning how to aim.

Some of the aiming system help with "alignment" so learning that will help you get your body in a good position for helping you make the shot.

Aiming systems in general (all of them) make you pay attention (FOCUS). THAT'S BIG!.

Can you learn to play pool without an aiming system? Sure you can. After decades of playing pool, I believe that an aiming system is a good back up to instinctive aiming but there are some very accurate players who use an aiming system all of the time.

ALL AIMING SYSTEMS will require for you to make minor adjustments in your aiming because of throw (collision induced throw & spin induced throw), condition of rails, cloth and balls.

It isn't going to hurt your ability to play well if you learn an aiming system or two or five. At least it hasn't hurt my ability to play well.

Good luck in whatever you decide. It's not the end of the world whichever way you decide to go. Have fun, play a lot of pool.

Don't let anyone convince you that an aiming system is bad for your game, especially at the stage you are at now.

If you want a simple to use aiming system, just click here.


JoeyA

 

[duckie]

Take a picture of a pool shot while pointing to the objective reference points.

Continuing to state a falsehood doesn't make it true.......it's misleading and really is just plain lying.

It also shows who does not have analytical mind.

 

[SJDinPHX]

How do you know that CTE or some other good aiming system doesn't lead to automatic aiming?

I mean when good players tell you that it does why do you continue to talk down to me about it?

For my level I have gambled a lot in my life and booked a lot of winners where I was in the "zone". I get what you're saying but you refuse to even consider what I am saying...

...I mean I know you respect performance and I certainly have never given a player of your caliber anything from me to respect when it comes to playing pool. But I also showed you many players whom you OUGHT to respect for their ability based on your ability to gauge speed.

Why don't you comment on them and the fact that they essentially say that the aiming systems they use allow them to automatically aim as well?

John, you continue to show your failure to comprehend some basic, indisputable facts about pool, in general!..When a player like Stroud (or myself) talks about "being in the zone", you have absolutely NO basis for comparison! Also, we both realize, that HAMB will always dwarf any aiming system ever invented!

You insist on harping about how much action you have been in, and how many great players you have been exposed to!..Sorry, but that will never elevate your "zone" anywhere near his, and you should realize that!

Why shouldn't he 'talk down' to you?..Until you get somewhere near his level of play, he is like a college graduate, trying to communicate with a 3rd grader!..Sorry to put it so bluntly John, but at the rate you are improving, you are not likely to ever be capable of even accurately gauging anyones "zone" or their overall game!

PS..The good news is, you're still young..Give it another 30 yrs., maybe you'll figure it all out!

 

[one stroke]

Lol, with respect you're not a better player than I am. I know you think you are but you're just not. This is a case of attacking the messenger rather than the message.

You can't make me feel bad, I am ok with where I am at in my game given what I put in. I could do more and get more out of it but I choose not to spend that time. That said you have literally no idea what I have done since the last time you saw me.

That match is the best 'advertising" a person could ever have if one were inclined to "hustle" the world. I have been told often in the past I natural lemon stroke.

But I am not a hustler, just another amateur who loves to play whenever I can. I find it comical though to be talked down to by people about my game when those people also never really accomplished anything in the game.

SJD I can understand, he was a top notcher at one time and he is curmudgeonly. But many of the folks on here aren't really any better than me from what I know. Yeah some are a little better and some are relatively even and some are worse but not many of them have the credentials to be critical of my game even as "bad" as my form looked in that match.

Sorry but guys like Keith McCready and Alex Higgins and Judd Trump prove that you don't HAVE to have perfect form to play great. Not that it is not a worthy goal but all this talk about perfect form kind of goes against the whole let the mind figure it out mantra that so many are pushing.

If the mind can figure it out and the end result is that the balls go in and the cueball goes where it needs to then what's the problem?

You can't really have it both ways if you're going to be a critic. Otherwise there is nothing to criticize. Face it Mike, we are all "bad" players in comparison to the really GOOD players. Maybe your "form" looks better than mine but I am sure that something else I do is better than you...it's a balance of many variables and your equation doesn't look the same as mine but you get the job done as best you can and I get the job done as best I can and neither of us is any threat to SVB.

I know this though....IF I put in the hours that SVB does I would be way better than you are by a long shot. And putting in those hours would HAVE to include doing whatever is neccessary to correct whatever form would be stopping me from making shots that were properly aimed. And vice versa for you, whatever is holding you back would HAVE to be addressed inside those hours for you to get closer to Shane and much farther from me in skill.

This OP asked a SPECIFIC question, learn WITH an aiming system or not. Some said not and some said yes. Attacking me personally because I said yes doesn't make the case for not because there are numerous examples of those who have adopted good aiming systems in their game who ALSO have "proper" fundamentals and they demonstrate a higher level of play than you or me.

JB hate to tell you , you would not have liked KD's speed when he was younger , you really have no idea who your talking to ,


1

 

[SJDinPHX]

Tell 'em Shawn!...

Probably the best (and truest) observation I have ever seen, regarding the overbearing proliferation of ALL 'aiming systems'! :thumbup:

....The problem with Ghost Ball aiming is that you can't make a 2-3 DVD set out of it. It's been available, for free for eons. So, there's no gold in them there hills.

 

[JB Cases]

JB hate to tell you , you would not have liked KD's speed when he was younger , you really have no idea who your talking to ,


1

Nor do I care. Everyone has gears. If you're not going to give duckie shit for talking about pool don't even try to come at me.

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[one stroke]

Probably the best (and truest) observation I have ever seen, regarding the overbearing proliferation of ALL 'aiming systems'! :thumbup:

What's funny Iv yet to talk to one player of a higher lever that actualy aims with any system , those are like training wheels you learn by them but you take them off once you learn how to ride


1

 

[JB Cases]

John, you continue to show your failure to comprehend some basic, indisputable facts about pool, in general!..When a player like Stroud (or myself) talks about "being in the zone", you have absolutely NO basis for comparison! Also, we both realize, that HAMB will always dwarf any aiming system ever invented!

You insist on harping about how much action you have been in, and how many great players you have been exposed to!..Sorry, but that will never elevate your "zone" anywhere near his, and you should realize that!

Why shouldn't he 'talk down' to you?..Until you get somewhere near his level of play, he is like a college graduate, trying to communicate with a 3rd grader!..Sorry to put it so bluntly John, but at the rate you are improving, you are not likely to ever be capable of even accurately gauging anyones "zone" or their overall game!

PS..The good news is, you're still young..Give it another 30 yrs., maybe you'll figure it all out!

Um the zone isn't exclusive to top players. You are really out of touch aren't you?

Bill and you can talk down to me all you want...Doesn't make you right.

Your time is long gone...For both of you....In the modern era we don't have to rely on learning by getting hustled until we become the hustlers.

Hate to break it to you but modern players would wipe the floor with most of the players of your generation (oops did I say that) I know you want to hold on to some romantic ideal that you were the greatest pool generation but you weren't.

Sorry that you had to learn to play the hard way. Modern players don't have to go through all that. Like diliberto often says about good young players.....He is a 40 year old pro in a 20 year old body....

Billy mentioned Tor Lowry and Tor is one example of not having to get pounded on to learn....He has put out great material that amounts to short cuts in knowledge acquisition. Same with Dr. Dave.

And the same applies to Stan shuffet and all the other high quality instructors out there who are teaching various modern ways to aim alongside the rest of what people need to become good players.

I do feel sadness that you don't fit into the modern world. I hope that I never become the kind of person whose mind is closed to new discoveries.



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[JB Cases]

Take a picture of a pool shot while pointing to the objective reference points.

Continuing to state a falsehood doesn't make it true.......it's misleading and really is just plain lying.

It also shows who does not have analytical mind.

Have done so dozens of times. Just because you can't comprehend something doesn't invalidate it.

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[SJDinPHX]

What's funny Iv yet to talk to one player of a higher level that actualy aims with any system , those are like training wheels you learn by them but you take them off once you learn how to ride

There appears to be a few guys in this thread (names on request) who are so reliant on 'aiming systems', they are afraid to remove their training wheels!

 

[SJDinPHX]

Um the zone isn't exclusive to top players. You are really out of touch aren't you?

Bill and you can talk down to me all you want...Doesn't make you right.

Your time is long gone...For both of you....In the modern era we don't have to rely on learning by getting hustled until we become the hustlers.

Hate to break it to you but modern players would wipe the floor with most of the players of your generation (oops did I say that) I know you want to hold on to some romantic ideal that you were the greatest pool generation but you weren't.

Sorry that you had to learn to play the hard way. Modern players don't have to go through all that. Like diliberto often says about good young players.....He is a 40 year old pro in a 20 year old body....

Billy mentioned Tor Lowry and Tor is one example of not having to get pounded on to learn....He has put out great material that amounts to short cuts in knowledge acquisition. Same with Dr. Dave.

And the same applies to Stan shuffet and all the other high quality instructors out there who are teaching various modern ways to aim alongside the rest of what people need to become good players.

I do feel sadness that you don't fit into the modern world. I hope that I never become the kind of person whose mind is closed to new discoveries.

There has always been the Tom Bradys, Micheal Jordans and Efren Reyes, in every generation!..Please point out where I ever said my era was best!..The only thing I have tried to impress on you, is that you will never be able to educate anyone, regarding how pool should, or should not be played..That is something you prove beyond a doubt, every time you enter a post!....No one is more "out of touch" than YOU!.....(not my fault )

PS...Good, quality instructor's are of great value, to 'C players' (like you) trying to become 'B players' (like me)!..Beyond that, just like 'aiming systems', their main audience will always consist of poor souls, grasping at straws, like you!....Discover that, willya?

 

[ribdoner]

ol Dick musta popped one dem blue ones tonight, he's real stout tonight:smile:

 

[iusedtoberich]

Ha ha did everyone get trolled again by a brand new user with his first post about aiming systems? Carry on!!!!

 

[SJDinPHX]

ol Dick musta popped one dem blue ones tonight, he's real stout tonight:smile:

Nah..Just my usual intake of Yukon Jack, and "Barton Bullsh*t" remover! :yeah:

Ha ha did everyone get trolled again by a brand new user with his first post about aiming systems? Carry on!!!!

Over 200 replys, and counting...Not bad for a newbies first post! :thumbup:

 

[JB Cases]

There has always been the Tom Bradys, Micheal Jordans and Efren Reyes, in every generation!..Please point out where I ever said my era was best!..The only thing I have tried to impress on you, is that you will never be able to educate anyone, regarding how pool should, or should not be played..That is something you prove beyond a doubt, every time you enter a post!....No one is more "out of touch" than YOU!.....(not my fault )

PS...Good, quality instructor's are of great value, to 'C players' (like you) trying to become 'B players' (like me)!..Beyond that, just like 'aiming systems', their main audience will always consist of poor souls, grasping at straws, like you!....Discover that, willya?

Yeah.....Well I will keep doing what I do and enjoy hearing people tell me they got something positive from the information I provide. With a half million views on YouTube I guess it's not all bad.

I just get the feeling that you think pool stopped evolving in the 70s.

The overall average is higher now in my opinion. This very thread is an example of how pool has evolved. To the point that a new player can ask a question and get players of all levels arguing over which answer is best. And everyone reading can possibly get something out of it.

Grasping at straws.....

Lol, literally. Back in your day you withheld the straws. You used to piss on any good player who would smarten up a sucker. The general consensus is that top players kept their knowledge confined to themselves and their level.

Must have pissed you off when people started making one pocket tapes. And a book on one pocket.... Kill the author.... Another book? The world is ending...

Commentary on one pocket matches where they tell people why players are doing what they do? Ohh no can't have that.

So no, it isn't grasping at straws... It's people sharing knowledge regardless of what level they are at. Helping each other to progress... Something that you don't seem to be OK with unless the information being shared is personally approved by you.

Sorry, your opinion on how to play is out of date. People don't need old crotchety guys whose best days were four decades ago to teach them anymore. 300,000 players can get information on how to play from hundreds of sources..... They can try anything from anyone and let it take them as far as they can go and then find more sources.

Unlike in your day when every noob was a mark to be fleeced. Today's players don't have to wait for a kindly hustler to finally take pity on them and show them some things. I'd rather live in this era than in yours.






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[BC21]

New book: Poolology - Mastering the Art of Aiming

The book teaches fractional ball aiming. No tricks or gimmicks. It is a new system that shows you how to determine the proper fractional aim point for any shot. It'll put you on the fast track to be a consistent shot maker.

It's available at lulu.com, just search for "poolology" and read about it. There are 2 formats available...Standard softcover binding, or spiral notebook style binding. I like the notebook style because you can lay it flat open on any page.

 

[ribdoner]

Yeah.....Well I will keep doing what I do and enjoy hearing people tell me they got something positive from the information I provide. With a half million views on YouTube I guess it's not all bad.

I just get the feeling that you think pool stopped evolving in the 70s.

The overall average is higher now in my opinion. This very thread is an example of how pool has evolved. To the point that a new player can ask a question and get players of all levels arguing over which answer is best. And everyone reading can possibly get something out of it.

Grasping at straws.....

Lol, literally. Back in your day you withheld the straws. You used to piss on any good player who would smarten up a sucker. The general consensus is that top players kept their knowledge confined to themselves and their level.

Must have pissed you off when people started making one pocket tapes. And a book on one pocket.... Kill the author.... Another book? The world is ending...

Commentary on one pocket matches where they tell people why players are doing what they do? Ohh no can't have that.

So no, it isn't grasping at straws... It's people sharing knowledge regardless of what level they are at. Helping each other to progress... Something that you don't seem to be OK with unless the information being shared is personally approved by you.

Sorry, your opinion on how to play is out of date. People don't need old crotchety guys whose best days were four decades ago to teach them anymore. 300,000 players can get information on how to play from hundreds of sources..... They can try anything from anyone and let it take them as far as they can go and then find more sources.

Unlike in your day when every noob was a mark to be fleeced. Today's players don't have to wait for a kindly hustler to finally take pity on them and show them some things. I'd rather live in this era than in yours.






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other snowflakes, who will soon be melting and draining into this soon to be great again nations sewer systems, most likely agree

hope you shake the loser syndrome and learn how play as well as you think you can or match up better before the 40% tariff kicks in on goods imported from pandaland.

have you thought about opening a manufacturing facility here?

do you hear the call of leagues?

 

[SJDinPHX]

Yeah.....Well I will keep doing what I do and enjoy hearing people tell me they got something positive from the information I provide. With a half million views on YouTube I guess it's not all bad.

I just get the feeling that you think pool stopped evolving in the 70s.

The overall average is higher now in my opinion. This very thread is an example of how pool has evolved. To the point that a new player can ask a question and get players of all levels arguing over which answer is best. And everyone reading can possibly get something out of it.

Grasping at straws.....

Lol, literally. Back in your day you withheld the straws. You used to piss on any good player who would smarten up a sucker. The general consensus is that top players kept their knowledge confined to themselves and their level.

Must have pissed you off when people started making one pocket tapes. And a book on one pocket.... Kill the author.... Another book? The world is ending...

Commentary on one pocket matches where they tell people why players are doing what they do? Ohh no can't have that.

So no, it isn't grasping at straws... It's people sharing knowledge regardless of what level they are at. Helping each other to progress... Something that you don't seem to be OK with unless the information being shared is personally approved by you.

Sorry, your opinion on how to play is out of date. People don't need old crotchety guys whose best days were four decades ago to teach them anymore. 300,000 players can get information on how to play from hundreds of sources..... They can try anything from anyone and let it take them as far as they can go and then find more sources.

Unlike in your day when every noob was a mark to be fleeced. Today's players don't have to wait for a kindly hustler to finally take pity on them and show them some things. I'd rather live in this era than in yours.

Shows what you know about how my mind works!..I think its great that young, up and coming players now have much greater access to information that will speed up their learning process!..Wish I'd had it, I may have become a world beater!

You are right about one thing though.(hooray)..Players in my day were not prone to give away much of anything!..You either learned it on your own, or not!..That is probably why there were fewer really great, young top guns back then, even though there were a lot more players!

However now, with the internet, its easier for even mediocre players (like yourself) to try and convince everyone they know all there is to know about the game!..Thats why I get on your case, to try and keep you grounded in reality! (besides, I kind of get a kick out of it )

I agree, its a whole different world now!..But there is no way possible to overcome something as difficult and elusive as "hand/eye coordination"..You are either blessed with it, or you are not!..The era, or time, has nothing to do with it!.. And there is no way that will ever change!..That is the straw you are grasping for!

PS..Can't you see, you are living proof that it cannot be bought, or taught?

 

[JB Cases]

other snowflakes, who will soon be melting and draining into this soon to be great again nations sewer systems, most likely agree

hope you shake the loser syndrome and learn how play as well as you think you can or match up better before the 40% tariff kicks in on goods imported from pandaland.

have you thought about opening a manufacturing facility here?

do you hear the call of leagues?

Lol, you honestly think this guy is going to upset the applecart in that way? No chance.

Snowflakes are what blizzards are made of. And when a hundred million snowflakes decide to fall together it's an avalanche.

Of course I have thought of opening a WORKSHOP here. And would you pay me $500 for the case that costs $200 now? Because that's the MINIMUM it would cost the consumer if it were made using the same amount of materials and shop hours.

And sorry to tell you but IF a tariff were imposed then the consumer has to pay it not me. It's exactly a sales tax on the consumer because the cost is rolled into the retail price. And even if I raise the price of the case by $100 to cover the tariff less discounts the price of our cases would still be lower with no domestic operation able to compete because of the aforementioned material and labor costs. That's why tariffs don't work.

Yes, I hear the leagues, raining money on me. Leagues are what keeps pool alive in the USA. And revenue from league players is what allows me to donate to the various causes I am asked to donate to. And of course also the free time to make as many videos on pool as I wish to. SJD has inspired me to make more of them. Maybe I will will do an Ultimate One Pocket Secrets Revealed series....... assuming I can find out any one pocket secrets to reveal

 

[JB Cases]

Shows what you know about how my mind works!..I think its great that young, up and coming players now have much greater access to information that will speed up their learning process!..Wish I'd had it, I may have become a world beater!

You are right about one thing though.(hooray)..Players in my day were not prone to give away much of anything!..You either learned it on your own, or not!..That is probably why there were fewer really great, young top guns back then, even though there were a lot more players!

However now, with the internet, its easier for even mediocre players (like yourself) to try and convince everyone they know all there is to know about the game!..Thats why I get on your case, to try and keep you grounded in reality! (besides, I kind of get a kick out of it )

I agree, its a whole different world now!..But there is no way possible to overcome something as difficult and elusive as "hand/eye coordination"..You are either blessed with it, or you are not!..The era, or time, has nothing to do with it!.. And there is no way that will ever change!..That is the straw you are grasping for!

PS..Can't you see, you are living proof that it cannot be bought, or taught?

Lol, again, I am quite clear to tell folks that I suck in my videos. I encourage the viewers to get good instruction and to be far more disciplined than me about learning to play.

I think you should go read up on the science of biomechanics and eye-hand coordination. It can be taught and learned and honed. But beyond that I don't know what you are even talking about as aiming in pool is fairly static. It's a deliberate act that the shooter can do at a leisurely pace with as much deliberation as he needs. Any eye hand coordination needed is certainly helped by the fact that the shooter can adjust as many times as needed until they are quite sure of the alignment. Pool is not an activity that requires split second reaction times.

I think you have inspired me to make more videos on pool. Just for you I am going to create a series called Everything You Need to Know About Playing Pool....taught by John Barton who knows everything about playing pool. ;-)

Just because I can.