OK, so non pros who enjoy the game should be the example, not the dedicated pros who have dominated World Class play for over 50 years.
Tell Efren Reyes or Arnie they cannot play Carom Billiards with a Pool Cue
- Thread starter billiardshot
- Start date
OK, so non pros who enjoy the game should be the example, not the dedicated pros who have dominated World Class play for over 50 years.
KissedOut.. That was a reply to beneath_the_sur question
KissedOut, what do you play with and are you a World Champion?
KissedOut, what do you play with and are you a World Champion?
You don't say
So then do you have an answer as to why the 3c/small game pros play with carom cues and not pool/snooker/Russian pyramid cues yet? Or Is it still just cause
I really don't enjoy being negative, so I'm looking forward to you getting over it or going back to being inactive in the forum whichever happens will be fine
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beneath_the_sur Here a Question for you. In your Profile you state ,you play Straight Rail. Are you using a Carom Cue or a Straight Rail Cue? If you using a carom Cue you wrong , but if you using a straight Rail Cue You are right.
I Did answer your othere question in the thread stated 2007
3 CUSHION CUES
Length of the cue: 56.25" / 143 cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 27.25 in / 69 cm (28 in / 71 cm available as an option)
Weight: 17.5 - 19.5 oz / 500 - 550 gr
Tip Diameter: 11.75mm or 12mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Medium
Shaft Taper: Very Stiff
CLASSIC GAMES CUES (BALKLINE), Straight Rail
Length of the cue: 54.75" / 139cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 25.75 in / 65.5 cm (26.5 in / 67 cm available as an option)
Weight: 16.5 - 17.5 oz / 470 - 500 gr
Tip Diameter: 11mm or 11.4mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Soft
Shaft Taper: Medium Stiff
POOL CUES
Length of the cue: 58" / 147cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 29 in / 74 cm
Weight: 18 - 20 oz / 510 - 570 gr
Tip Diameter: 12.75mm or 13mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Soft
Shaft Taper: Progressive Pro Taper
I Did answer your othere question in the thread stated 2007
3 CUSHION CUES
Length of the cue: 56.25" / 143 cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 27.25 in / 69 cm (28 in / 71 cm available as an option)
Weight: 17.5 - 19.5 oz / 500 - 550 gr
Tip Diameter: 11.75mm or 12mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Medium
Shaft Taper: Very Stiff
CLASSIC GAMES CUES (BALKLINE), Straight Rail
Length of the cue: 54.75" / 139cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 25.75 in / 65.5 cm (26.5 in / 67 cm available as an option)
Weight: 16.5 - 17.5 oz / 470 - 500 gr
Tip Diameter: 11mm or 11.4mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Soft
Shaft Taper: Medium Stiff
POOL CUES
Length of the cue: 58" / 147cm
Butt length: 29 in / 74 cm
Shaft length: 29 in / 74 cm
Weight: 18 - 20 oz / 510 - 570 gr
Tip Diameter: 12.75mm or 13mm
Cue Tip: Kamui Black Soft
Shaft Taper: Progressive Pro Taper
I actually do have 3c and small games cue
15.8 ounces, 54 inch 11mm tip, soft mori
18 ounces 56 inch 11.5/12 mm tip, tiger emerald, Hercules medium
18ish ounce 57 inch 11.5mm tip , Hercules medium
All European tapers
All I would call carom cues,
Because they are made to play carom billiards
15.8 ounces, 54 inch 11mm tip, soft mori
18 ounces 56 inch 11.5/12 mm tip, tiger emerald, Hercules medium
18ish ounce 57 inch 11.5mm tip , Hercules medium
All European tapers
All I would call carom cues,
Because they are made to play carom billiards
Good for you. But look at the changes carom cue are going thru More Makers using Metal Pin in their Butt and Changing from just Conical, to numerous different Tapers
https://store.kozoom.com/en/en/carom-billiards/carom-billiard-shafts.html?p=1
Even McDermott Cue into carom
https://store.kozoom.com/en/en/pool-cues-billiard-sticks/carom-cues/mc-dermott-carom-cues.html
Then you wonder why CueTec Carom Cue never Made it on the scene .
2009 Thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=157521
https://store.kozoom.com/en/en/carom-billiards/carom-billiard-shafts.html?p=1
Even McDermott Cue into carom
https://store.kozoom.com/en/en/pool-cues-billiard-sticks/carom-cues/mc-dermott-carom-cues.html
Then you wonder why CueTec Carom Cue never Made it on the scene .
2009 Thread http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=157521
Probably because no one in America plays it, and no one in the rest of the world would try a lucky charm Mcdermot or cue teq
Makers making changes for what the customer is buying
the only pros I can think of are tb and sayginer using metal joints , not to say there isn't more,
Watching the rest, still wood joint ,
Makers making changes for what the customer is buying
the only pros I can think of are tb and sayginer using metal joints , not to say there isn't more,
Watching the rest, still wood joint ,
This for Kissedout... just to mention one player and era
Harold Worst
Harold Worst Timeline/Chronology
1929: Harold Worst is born on September 29, 1929, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, to Harry J. Worst and Lavina Worst.
1946: According to a Chicago Tribune article dated February 13, 1950, Worst never picks up a cue until age 17, when his father installs a junior-size billiards table in the basement.
Around this time, Harold Worst meets Tena Huisman, his future wife. She later recalled in an interview that even as a teenager, he always wore a suit.
Worst begins to hang out at Chinnick's, a famous poolroom frequented by celebrities like heavyweight boxing champions Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney.
Worst's billiards tutors include Walter Brundage and oilman Joe "Red" McDevitt, an amateur champ who moved to Grand Rapids from Ohio in 1946.
Worst has a great eye, strong wrists, a cool temperament, and tremendous powers of concentration. He soon surpasses his mentors.
1949: Roy Deak "the Deacon" Nichols, who managed Chinnick's poolroom, contacted Brunswick-Balke, the sponsor of Willie Hoppe, about the "boy wonder."
As a result of Nichols' inquiry and a last-minute cancellation by another player, Brunswick-Balke agrees to pit Hoppe against Worst in a Detroit exhibition.
Although Worst loses (albeit by just one point), Hoppe is impressed, befriends Worst, and begins to tutor him.
At age 21, Worst becomes the youngest player ever to qualify for the world three-cushion billiards championship.
Worst places second in the U.S. National Three-Cushion Billiards Tournament, then fourth in the world championship.
1950: Worst marries Tena Huisman, then gets drafted and is deployed to Korea.
According to "Champion of Obscurity" by George Fels, Worst makes over $500 per week playing servicemen who "lined up" to give him their money, not believing he could be so good.
Worst snags a furlough to play in the U.S. National Three-Cushion Billiards tournament, where he places second (with a 7-2 record) after Mexico's Joe Chamaco, the defending champion.
Worst is called "the baby of the show" by the Chicago Daily Tribune.
Worst still has hair at this time, as the Chicago Tribune describes him as "blond."
Willie Hoppe predicts that Worst will emerge as "the next world champion, providing he can practice as much with a cue as he can with a rifle."
Worst then spends nine months in Korea as a member of the Army graves registration unit (an assignment that weighed on and depressed him).
On a brighter note, Worst is allowed to give billiards lessons and put on exhibitions at military recreation centers.
1951: Worst again participates in the U. S. National Three-Cushion Billiards tournament, representing the Army.
1952: Willie Hoppe wins the last of his 51 world titles, then retires at age 64. Many experts consider him to be the greatest three-cushion billiards player of all time.
Hoppe presents Worst with his personal billiards table, after retiring.
Three-cushion billiards begins to die on the vine, in terms of popularity with the public, after Hoppe's retirement.
Worst is discharged in November 1952, and returns to competitive billiards five months later.
1954: Worst's journey to Buenos Aires, Argentina results in his first three-cushion billiards world championship. The 10-day event draws 110,000 spectators.
Worst is the youngest three-cushion billiards world champion to date, at age 25.
Worst's overall record is 8-2 record, with a 60-45 victory over reigning champion Ray Kilgore and a 60-43 victory on October 25, 1954 over Argentina's Ezequiel Navarra, the hometown favorite.
Worst had to be protected by a cordon of 25 policemen from an angry mob of Argentines who were unhappy about Navarra being defeated by an outsider.
Worst turned down a $15,000 bribe from mobsters, and was advised to leave the country immediately after winning by Juan and Evita Peron.
According to an article by George Fels, Worst said that he never received the trophy.
The October 26, 1954, edition of The Grand Rapids Press bears the headline: "Worst Brings City Second World Title." (The first world title was brought by bowler Marion Ladewig.)
Accompanying the story is a two-column photograph of Harold attempting a difficult massé shot, looking dapper in a suit and polka-dot tie.
Worst will hold the world three-cushion billiards title until his premature death at age 37.
1957: Worst defends his world title in Chicago, winning four blocks in a row against Joe Chamaco of Mexico.
From Sports Illustrated: "Harold Worst, nerveless pool shark from Grand Rapids and at 28 world's youngest international billiards champion, chalked up 1,200 points to 1,021 for Mexico's Joe Chamaco, to retain his three-cushion title."
Another Sports Illustrated article: "Worst is the Best" by Jack Olsen.
1958: Worst participates in an exhibition in Chicago.
1959: Worst participates in a billiards exhibition with Masako Katsura, a diminutive Japanese female player with world-class talent.
1960: Worst defends his world title.
1961: Worst defends his world title, defeating Masako Katsura in a challenge match. Worst wins six out of seven matches.
But American interest in three-cushion billiards is at an all-time low. Fortunately the movie The Hustler, starring Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason, stirs interest in pocket billiards.
Worst reads the handwriting on the wall and decides to start cashing in, by changing games and gameplans ...
1962: Worst creates his own line of cues, and a company called Cues Inc. to manufacture and distribute them.
Worst quips, "We could hardly call it the Worst Cues Company, now could we?"
Worst also lends his name to a line of inexpensive pool tables.
1963: At the Michigan State Fairgrounds, Worst wins the one-pocket title, beating Cornbread Red, the straight pool title, beating Babyface Whitlow, and the nine-ball title. Worst finishes second to Cornbread Red in snooker.
1964: Worst wins the Michigan snooker and pool championships, according to a Traverse City Record-Eagle article dated June 16, 1966.
Around this time, Worst defeats the legendary big-money hustler Don Willis at his best game, nine-ball.
1965: From Sports Illustrated: "Harold Worst, 36, a cue manufacturer from Grand Rapids, won the all-round title at the $30,000 Las Vegas Open, plus $4,350 in prize money. Worst also took the one-pocket division."
In the star-studded Las Vegas Open, Worst bests 100 players, winning the one-pocket division, then defeating pool legends Irving "The Deacon" Crane and "Champagne" Ed Kelly in the round-robin finale.
Worst also wins the all-round title at the famous Johnston City hustler tournament, finishing first in the nine-ball and straight pool categories, then defeating Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson in the finals.
The game's star hustlers refuse to play Worst even. And even when they try to trap him by demanding outrageous spots, he often manages to shoot his way out of their traps (although not always).
According to George Fels, Worst gave other players the "tremors."
1966: Worst plays in the Straight Pool World Championship, held in the Windsor Ballroom of the Commodore Hotel in New York City from March 19 to March 27, 1966.
Despite being close to death, Worst wins six matches against formidable opposition and has a high run of 85 balls.
Harold Worst dies on June 16, 1966.
1970: Harold Worst is inducted into the Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fame.
Read more here
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Harold Worst Pool Billiards the Best.htm
Harold Worst
Harold Worst Timeline/Chronology
1929: Harold Worst is born on September 29, 1929, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, to Harry J. Worst and Lavina Worst.
1946: According to a Chicago Tribune article dated February 13, 1950, Worst never picks up a cue until age 17, when his father installs a junior-size billiards table in the basement.
Around this time, Harold Worst meets Tena Huisman, his future wife. She later recalled in an interview that even as a teenager, he always wore a suit.
Worst begins to hang out at Chinnick's, a famous poolroom frequented by celebrities like heavyweight boxing champions Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney.
Worst's billiards tutors include Walter Brundage and oilman Joe "Red" McDevitt, an amateur champ who moved to Grand Rapids from Ohio in 1946.
Worst has a great eye, strong wrists, a cool temperament, and tremendous powers of concentration. He soon surpasses his mentors.
1949: Roy Deak "the Deacon" Nichols, who managed Chinnick's poolroom, contacted Brunswick-Balke, the sponsor of Willie Hoppe, about the "boy wonder."
As a result of Nichols' inquiry and a last-minute cancellation by another player, Brunswick-Balke agrees to pit Hoppe against Worst in a Detroit exhibition.
Although Worst loses (albeit by just one point), Hoppe is impressed, befriends Worst, and begins to tutor him.
At age 21, Worst becomes the youngest player ever to qualify for the world three-cushion billiards championship.
Worst places second in the U.S. National Three-Cushion Billiards Tournament, then fourth in the world championship.
1950: Worst marries Tena Huisman, then gets drafted and is deployed to Korea.
According to "Champion of Obscurity" by George Fels, Worst makes over $500 per week playing servicemen who "lined up" to give him their money, not believing he could be so good.
Worst snags a furlough to play in the U.S. National Three-Cushion Billiards tournament, where he places second (with a 7-2 record) after Mexico's Joe Chamaco, the defending champion.
Worst is called "the baby of the show" by the Chicago Daily Tribune.
Worst still has hair at this time, as the Chicago Tribune describes him as "blond."
Willie Hoppe predicts that Worst will emerge as "the next world champion, providing he can practice as much with a cue as he can with a rifle."
Worst then spends nine months in Korea as a member of the Army graves registration unit (an assignment that weighed on and depressed him).
On a brighter note, Worst is allowed to give billiards lessons and put on exhibitions at military recreation centers.
1951: Worst again participates in the U. S. National Three-Cushion Billiards tournament, representing the Army.
1952: Willie Hoppe wins the last of his 51 world titles, then retires at age 64. Many experts consider him to be the greatest three-cushion billiards player of all time.
Hoppe presents Worst with his personal billiards table, after retiring.
Three-cushion billiards begins to die on the vine, in terms of popularity with the public, after Hoppe's retirement.
Worst is discharged in November 1952, and returns to competitive billiards five months later.
1954: Worst's journey to Buenos Aires, Argentina results in his first three-cushion billiards world championship. The 10-day event draws 110,000 spectators.
Worst is the youngest three-cushion billiards world champion to date, at age 25.
Worst's overall record is 8-2 record, with a 60-45 victory over reigning champion Ray Kilgore and a 60-43 victory on October 25, 1954 over Argentina's Ezequiel Navarra, the hometown favorite.
Worst had to be protected by a cordon of 25 policemen from an angry mob of Argentines who were unhappy about Navarra being defeated by an outsider.
Worst turned down a $15,000 bribe from mobsters, and was advised to leave the country immediately after winning by Juan and Evita Peron.
According to an article by George Fels, Worst said that he never received the trophy.
The October 26, 1954, edition of The Grand Rapids Press bears the headline: "Worst Brings City Second World Title." (The first world title was brought by bowler Marion Ladewig.)
Accompanying the story is a two-column photograph of Harold attempting a difficult massé shot, looking dapper in a suit and polka-dot tie.
Worst will hold the world three-cushion billiards title until his premature death at age 37.
1957: Worst defends his world title in Chicago, winning four blocks in a row against Joe Chamaco of Mexico.
From Sports Illustrated: "Harold Worst, nerveless pool shark from Grand Rapids and at 28 world's youngest international billiards champion, chalked up 1,200 points to 1,021 for Mexico's Joe Chamaco, to retain his three-cushion title."
Another Sports Illustrated article: "Worst is the Best" by Jack Olsen.
1958: Worst participates in an exhibition in Chicago.
1959: Worst participates in a billiards exhibition with Masako Katsura, a diminutive Japanese female player with world-class talent.
1960: Worst defends his world title.
1961: Worst defends his world title, defeating Masako Katsura in a challenge match. Worst wins six out of seven matches.
But American interest in three-cushion billiards is at an all-time low. Fortunately the movie The Hustler, starring Paul Newman and Jackie Gleason, stirs interest in pocket billiards.
Worst reads the handwriting on the wall and decides to start cashing in, by changing games and gameplans ...
1962: Worst creates his own line of cues, and a company called Cues Inc. to manufacture and distribute them.
Worst quips, "We could hardly call it the Worst Cues Company, now could we?"
Worst also lends his name to a line of inexpensive pool tables.
1963: At the Michigan State Fairgrounds, Worst wins the one-pocket title, beating Cornbread Red, the straight pool title, beating Babyface Whitlow, and the nine-ball title. Worst finishes second to Cornbread Red in snooker.
1964: Worst wins the Michigan snooker and pool championships, according to a Traverse City Record-Eagle article dated June 16, 1966.
Around this time, Worst defeats the legendary big-money hustler Don Willis at his best game, nine-ball.
1965: From Sports Illustrated: "Harold Worst, 36, a cue manufacturer from Grand Rapids, won the all-round title at the $30,000 Las Vegas Open, plus $4,350 in prize money. Worst also took the one-pocket division."
In the star-studded Las Vegas Open, Worst bests 100 players, winning the one-pocket division, then defeating pool legends Irving "The Deacon" Crane and "Champagne" Ed Kelly in the round-robin finale.
Worst also wins the all-round title at the famous Johnston City hustler tournament, finishing first in the nine-ball and straight pool categories, then defeating Larry "Boston Shorty" Johnson in the finals.
The game's star hustlers refuse to play Worst even. And even when they try to trap him by demanding outrageous spots, he often manages to shoot his way out of their traps (although not always).
According to George Fels, Worst gave other players the "tremors."
1966: Worst plays in the Straight Pool World Championship, held in the Windsor Ballroom of the Commodore Hotel in New York City from March 19 to March 27, 1966.
Despite being close to death, Worst wins six matches against formidable opposition and has a high run of 85 balls.
Harold Worst dies on June 16, 1966.
1970: Harold Worst is inducted into the Billiard Congress of America Hall of Fame.
Read more here
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Harold Worst Pool Billiards the Best.htm
Ok I was wrong lol
I think I'm thinking about Sims
I think I'm thinking about Sims
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Jim McKay Interview with Harold Worst
http://johnstoncityvideosll.blogspot.com/2008/06/blog-post.html
Johnston City 1965 Harold Worst and Larry Boston Shorty Johnson Straight Pool
http://johnstoncityvideosll.blogspot.com/2008/06/johnston-city-1965-harold-worst-and.html
http://untoldstoriesharoldworst.blogspot.com/2009/08/videos-of-pool-champ-harold-worst-in.html
Check out the cool videos of Harold Worst playing in Johnston City, circa 1965, which was about a year before Worst died of cancer. You can find the video on a blog maintained by Freddy "The Beard" Bentivegna. Just click here. Worst is playing Larry "Boston" Shorty in the footage. The Beard also has posted a Jim McKay interview with Worst.
A bit of quick biographical information: Worst was born on Sept. 29, 1929, in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1949, according to The Grand Rapids Press, "Worst had followed in Hoppe's steps as a 'boy wonder,' having set a record for youth when at the age of 21 he became the youngest player in history to qualify for world championship play." He placed second in that year's national tournament and then fourth in the world meet. In 1954 he won the world three-cushion title during a tournament in Buenos Aires, Argentina. He then went on to amass a great winning record through the first half of the 1960s and might have surpassed Luther Lassiter as that decade's dominant player had Worst not died of cancer in 1966 at the age of 37. Worst was at the top of this game when he got sick. He remained unconquered as the world's three-cushion champion.
You can read more about Worst in a column I wrote earlier for Billiards Digest. The coding is a bit messed up, but it's still available online here. On the top of this post I've inserted an image of the front page of the Grand Rapids Press that features coverage of Worst. Forgive the dark stains. I think I spilled some wine on my hard copy. You can find the home page of the great Freddy the Beard here.
The Question now is What European Carom Players, Have accomplish Harold Worst's 3C and Pool Wins/ Championship Records, using their Carom Cue?? I believe None.
http://johnstoncityvideosll.blogspot.com/2008/06/blog-post.html
Johnston City 1965 Harold Worst and Larry Boston Shorty Johnson Straight Pool
http://johnstoncityvideosll.blogspot.com/2008/06/johnston-city-1965-harold-worst-and.html
http://untoldstoriesharoldworst.blogspot.com/2009/08/videos-of-pool-champ-harold-worst-in.html
Check out the cool videos of Harold Worst playing in Johnston City, circa 1965, which was about a year before Worst died of cancer. You can find the video on a blog maintained by Freddy "The Beard" Bentivegna. Just click here. Worst is playing Larry "Boston" Shorty in the footage. The Beard also has posted a Jim McKay interview with Worst.
A bit of quick biographical information: Worst was born on Sept. 29, 1929, in Grand Rapids, Michigan. In 1949, according to The Grand Rapids Press, "Worst had followed in Hoppe's steps as a 'boy wonder,' having set a record for youth when at the age of 21 he became the youngest player in history to qualify for world championship play." He placed second in that year's national tournament and then fourth in the world meet. In 1954 he won the world three-cushion title during a tournament in Buenos Aires, Argentina. He then went on to amass a great winning record through the first half of the 1960s and might have surpassed Luther Lassiter as that decade's dominant player had Worst not died of cancer in 1966 at the age of 37. Worst was at the top of this game when he got sick. He remained unconquered as the world's three-cushion champion.
You can read more about Worst in a column I wrote earlier for Billiards Digest. The coding is a bit messed up, but it's still available online here. On the top of this post I've inserted an image of the front page of the Grand Rapids Press that features coverage of Worst. Forgive the dark stains. I think I spilled some wine on my hard copy. You can find the home page of the great Freddy the Beard here.
The Question now is What European Carom Players, Have accomplish Harold Worst's 3C and Pool Wins/ Championship Records, using their Carom Cue?? I believe None.
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Your logic is all over the place.
How many have duplicated worsts feats (question STOP). Answer: none. It was the man, not the cue.
Smart phone is better tool than dumphone.
There is a significant difference between ' can it be done?' and 'what is the optimal tool for this process'
Jump cue is better for jumping.
Carom cue best for billiards.
Snooker for snooker and pool for pool...and masse for masse.
Great articles on worst, btw. Gold, almost lost forever.
How many have duplicated worsts feats (question STOP). Answer: none. It was the man, not the cue.
Smart phone is better tool than dumphone.
There is a significant difference between ' can it be done?' and 'what is the optimal tool for this process'
Jump cue is better for jumping.
Carom cue best for billiards.
Snooker for snooker and pool for pool...and masse for masse.
Great articles on worst, btw. Gold, almost lost forever.
A single person did something with a stick you like
You must feel incredible don't you
How many others, I would also wager 0 or less than a hand full
but do you have an answer YET why doesnt cuadron or jaspers use a pool cue when they are finishing matches with 5 or higher averages?
im just asking for a little back up on your claims is all
You must feel incredible don't you
How many others, I would also wager 0 or less than a hand full
but do you have an answer YET why doesnt cuadron or jaspers use a pool cue when they are finishing matches with 5 or higher averages?
im just asking for a little back up on your claims is all
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Harold Worst information was my reply to your question in quote, He did it with a pool cue.
Black-Balled :thumbup::thumbup: You are Right It was the man, not the cue. The players of the '50 and '60 era only need one cue to do all billiards games!! Including breaking, jumping, or masse. And only need to care for one cue, instead of multiple cues
5 plus averages
look at this sheet that bert posted in my good play thread
recorded history of matches ending in 5 average or higher,
seems like the earliest was in 1996
look at this sheet that bert posted in my good play thread
recorded history of matches ending in 5 average or higher,
seems like the earliest was in 1996
You Have to ask them, since you are a Carom Dealer.
The original point was can you play 3C with a Pool Cue. The answer Yes!
I made no Claim.
You Need to check out some of cuetable old posts and the wei table. http://forums.azbilliards.com/search.php?searchid=19501412
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We had some fun with the wei. I miss it.
And that is why the best of today play better than the best of yesterday:3% better for the cue, 5 for the cloth, .o38 for the tip, .9 for the balls...etc.
Marginal gains; they add up.
Marginal gains; they add up.
But the yesterday players is where all the knowledge came from for today Players!!!
we did have fun with the wei. Cuetable also have a great forum/website
we did have fun with the wei. Cuetable also have a great forum/website
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