UV talk
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
One point I found interesting (unless I misheard what he was saying) was that he said he waited around an hour to cure it after spraying the finish on.
Wonder why the wait?
Don't care for the hand held operation. Something motorized would seem much easier (better).
Wonder why the wait?
Don't care for the hand held operation. Something motorized would seem much easier (better).
I would believe to allow the finish to flow out some before "locking" it in.
Maybe a rotisserie unit from a barbecue grill would work, along with the lamp on an actuator? Bob Taylor was the first I know to use them on acoustic guitars, and Michael Greenfield the first independent builder...
My guess would be to give it time to self level some.
I'm not sure how 'leveling-out' would occur with the guitar hanging sideways.
Laying it flat would greatly reduce possible 'runs'.
I don't get the hour wait btwn coats either. How is that a time-saver ?
Going by that vid, UV is still very expensive.
Just to put this out there, if I have to, I can shoot, cure, wet-sand and polish,
ready for delivery in 3 hrs. I shoot auto-clear. My set-up is 1/10th the cost.
Laying it flat would greatly reduce possible 'runs'.
I don't get the hour wait btwn coats either. How is that a time-saver ?
Going by that vid, UV is still very expensive.
Just to put this out there, if I have to, I can shoot, cure, wet-sand and polish,
ready for delivery in 3 hrs. I shoot auto-clear. My set-up is 1/10th the cost.
I went back and looked at the video again........but hit a small snag. I got side tracked into watching female guitarists riffing and shredding and when the next video of female drummers came on I totally lost all remembrance of what I watched in the UV vid.
Thanks Joey...I'll never get those 30 minutes of shop time back. Some of those kids were amazing...I say kids because most were around 12 -16 yrs old and would give some of the most experienced drummers a run for their dollar.
I hate youtube.
Thanks Joey...I'll never get those 30 minutes of shop time back. Some of those kids were amazing...I say kids because most were around 12 -16 yrs old and would give some of the most experienced drummers a run for their dollar.
I hate youtube.
I use a 2-part automotive urethane on my guitars, with an inexpensive HVLP conversion gun. Flash coat in 5 minutes, dust-free in 10, and ready to sand and buff in a few hours. Dries very hard, and I achieve a very thin, clear finish.
Possibly the wait time between coats has something to do with the nature of polyester finishes, not sure... It may be done to prevent sag. I can see how this could be a benefit to guitars, though, personally, in a small custom shop, I don't see how waiting overnight for a finish to cure would be of issue.
Sounds like pretty much the same set-up that I use.
Acrylic urethane (auto-clear) and el-cheapo HVLP gun ($25-35 delivered to the door from eBay).
Amazingly, I'll get about a year or more use of the gun before the internal O-rings start to deteriorate.
PITA when I'm in the middle of a rush job. Little black particles showing in the finish. DOGGIES !
Why the rush ? I do a lot of shafts for Seyberts and I don't want their clients waiting any longer than Sey does.
I stumbled upon a finish called Hi-Speed Clear. The can says no flash time but I give it a couple minutes btwn coats.
Within 5-10 min. I can handle it. Can says ready to buff in 3 hrs. However, I can force cure in 10-15 mins
by subjecting the finish on the shaft to 130-140* temp. Now she's hard.
I have a DC drive finish-lathe so shafts and handles are rotating while I'm shooting; more uniform millage.
150-200 rpm for shooting, 50-100 rpm btwn coats.
I'm also a fan of a thin finish. You can probably guess why. I'll wager it's the same reason.
Acrylic urethane (auto-clear) and el-cheapo HVLP gun ($25-35 delivered to the door from eBay).
Amazingly, I'll get about a year or more use of the gun before the internal O-rings start to deteriorate.
PITA when I'm in the middle of a rush job. Little black particles showing in the finish. DOGGIES !
Why the rush ? I do a lot of shafts for Seyberts and I don't want their clients waiting any longer than Sey does.
I stumbled upon a finish called Hi-Speed Clear. The can says no flash time but I give it a couple minutes btwn coats.
Within 5-10 min. I can handle it. Can says ready to buff in 3 hrs. However, I can force cure in 10-15 mins
by subjecting the finish on the shaft to 130-140* temp. Now she's hard.
I have a DC drive finish-lathe so shafts and handles are rotating while I'm shooting; more uniform millage.
150-200 rpm for shooting, 50-100 rpm btwn coats.
I'm also a fan of a thin finish. You can probably guess why. I'll wager it's the same reason.
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Bill McDaniel used UV lights for HIS finishes and we know he was way ahead of his carrier:thumbup:
UV or Halogen ?
I heard UV
I use a UV finish, and brush it on, I refuse to spray, especially auto clears, as I don't want the fumes killing either me, my family, or my neighbors or the small animals in the yard. Also don't want an explosion due to the combo of fumes and a fan.
From seal coat, to final coat is around 1 hr if I am paying attention and no distractions, I do this in a heated booth and have a small dc motor slowly rotating the cue to allow proper flow out as the finish needs to sit for a few to prevent bubbles, etc., and then I do a 20 second flash, and do another coat. I do this 3 times, and then do a 3 minute cure, then let it cool for about 20 minutes and sand, wet sand, buff 3 stages, and done. And NO harmful fumes released to the neighborhood. Best part is NO shrinkage a week or 3 down the road like most of the solvent type finishes, including quite a few auto clears.
Dave
From seal coat, to final coat is around 1 hr if I am paying attention and no distractions, I do this in a heated booth and have a small dc motor slowly rotating the cue to allow proper flow out as the finish needs to sit for a few to prevent bubbles, etc., and then I do a 20 second flash, and do another coat. I do this 3 times, and then do a 3 minute cure, then let it cool for about 20 minutes and sand, wet sand, buff 3 stages, and done. And NO harmful fumes released to the neighborhood. Best part is NO shrinkage a week or 3 down the road like most of the solvent type finishes, including quite a few auto clears.
Dave
'Thin' is one of the features of this particular A/C.
If I needed .003" (per side) I'd be doing at least 2 sessions.
Generally I'm shooting .0015 - .002" per session.
Lay it on too thick and it could deceive you, as in, a possible 'run'.
I need to be mindful of my pre-finish sanded diams. to get it right the first time.
I'm pretty certain that the product is re-labeled as the can says 'distributed by'.
I couldn't tell you the orig. manufacturer, I don't know. It's very inexpensive though.
IIRC, a gal. is like $60 + 20(?) for the catalyst. I mix by the teaspoon and don't shoot everyday.
Last I knew, regs. allow me to shoot up to 4 oz a day. In 20 yrs I've NEVER shot that much in one day.
Which is a good thing because heaven knows I have no intention of poisoning the neighborhood. Lol
For whatever reason I can't copy the PDS in PDF form but I can provide a link to the product :
http://www.autobodymaster.com/product_list.jsp?PHPRJ_GROUP_ID=79667&PHL1_CD=115&PHL2_CD=1138
Dave38, Your lawn mower is a greater risk to the neighborhood AND the environment. Lol
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I use ACME Finish1, sold at Sherwin Williams automotive paints stores.
My son worked for Sherwin for 3 years, and trust me, the Auto clears they sell are not safe for home use, unless you get the water based ones, and even then, it's not the best to inhale, plus they need to be baked which takes it out of the cue making world, IMO. I was buying diamond clear from them and it has a flash point temp of around 90ish degrees. I brushed it, but had to exhaust the fumes to the outside and then the whole yard stunk for hours. Finally they sent me the MDS sheet and I found No way was that stuff safe to breathe. So far the UV finish I use has better MDS ratings then any auto clear I've tried or read up on. Just my experiences.
Dave
Dave
If you spray auto clear, you will need a booth with a carbon and fiberglass filters.
I know a few who just have fans behind them.
Not good.
Drying cues should be left outside or in a sealed container for a day or more depending on the finish.
Speaking of UV, some use Solarez now.
It is the nastiest smelling thing out there. I have no idea how some can even work with it. Applying it while the cue is spinning inside the shop.
Heaven forbid if you use MEK to set it off.
With all this talk about fume inhalation, I'm wondering how many here actually use a respirator to spray. I wear one, as well as a Tyvek suit and gloves. You'd be amazed how much less stuff gets on your finish, just by suiting up. I was fortunate enough to have the room to build a small spray room in my house, but being in a basement apartment now, been working back toward traditional hand applied finishes...
Your backyard a cave? or just being dramatic for effect? You got that schit right. Did a brief stint with that crap for testing purposes.
Bad Bad Bad...smell alone will figuratively kill you and maybe physically too.
Didn't hold a bond worth a crap either.
I used the dupont 4:1 auto clears for years. Price went thru the roof over the years.
I've seen many less expensive copies that I'm sure work as well. Never in that big of a hurry where I had to shot and buff the same day. The stuff I use now is the nuts for my situation. 1:1 mix makes it very easy to do small batches if necessary. No reducers or other added crap needed. I get a 1/2 gal of finish for spraying delivered to my door for less than the price I was paying for one quart of dupont stuff. Minus the harder and I was wasting my time going to pick it up.
If need be, I can wet sand and buff in less than 24 hours but not in that big of a race. I generally shoot...scuff off gloss the next day...let it sit and air out for 2-4 days, sometimes longer. For me, building cues is not a race of time.
Like KJ says....it's all in the prep work before you pull the trigger. Generally 2 sessions and I'm out and done. Nice level, bright, clear and shiny finish not to thick...not too thin.
And my backyard doesn't smell for hours. I have seen some 5 legged geckos running thru the yard tho.
I know some builders are being very successful running UV systems but the learning curve has been a real PITA for most of them. And the cost and maintenance can deter some of us smaller guys.
Never say never....but I'm getting older and not sure about another change now.
You got that schit right. Did a brief stint with that crap for testing purposes.
Bad Bad Bad...smell alone will figuratively kill you and maybe physically too.
Didn't hold a bond worth a crap either.
I used the dupont 4:1 auto clears for years. Price went thru the roof over the years.
I've seen many less expensive copies that I'm sure work as well. Never in that big of a hurry where I had to shot and buff the same day. The stuff I use now is the nuts for my situation. 1:1 mix makes it very easy to do small batches if necessary. No reducers or other added crap needed. I get a 1/2 gal of finish for spraying delivered to my door for less than the price I was paying for one quart of dupont stuff. Minus the harder and I was wasting my time going to pick it up.
If need be, I can wet sand and buff in less than 24 hours but not in that big of a race. I generally shoot...scuff off gloss the next day...let it sit and air out for 2-4 days, sometimes longer. For me, building cues is not a race of time.
Like KJ says....it's all in the prep work before you pull the trigger. Generally 2 sessions and I'm out and done. Nice level, bright, clear and shiny finish not to thick...not too thin.
And my backyard doesn't smell for hours. I have seen some 5 legged geckos running thru the yard tho.
I know some builders are being very successful running UV systems but the learning curve has been a real PITA for most of them. And the cost and maintenance can deter some of us smaller guys.
Never say never....but I'm getting older and not sure about another change now.
Those geckos don't have 5 legs. Check again, those are not legs.
1 to 1 clear? Can't be Nazifornia legal.