Stan shuffet and cte pro one

[Neil]

It matters when showing that professional instructors can be wrong, shattering the illusion that everything must work as instructed. I followed the steps months ago for this shot, exactly as Stan describes, yet my CCB was not directed to a 1/2 ball aim. He was so matter-of-fact about it being a 30° half ball shot when I knew it wasn't. So I figured I was just doing something wrong with my pivot or perception, but still wondered how he could drill the shot with stun and aiming at half ball. His error left me questioning the entire process he was trying to teach.

Who ever said that a professional instructor can not be wrong? They are human just like anyone else. And who is to say that one is actually wrong? Have you ever even considered that just maybe, with his eyes, he is correct?

And, why does it matter to you so much if an instructor is wrong that you have to go on and on and on about it? Was your world really shattered that badly at your discovery?

Why be so fixated on an instructor being wrong, when you yourself have been shown to be wrong so many times on here? Are you not also an instructor? One that has a book out?

Do you not yet understand that by being fixated on what you can find that you think is wrong, that in so doing you entirely miss the big picture and thereby never do really learn anything that would actually benefit you? Don't you think that your time would be better spent if you tried to glean what would benefit you rather than what you can find to discredit?

 

[nobcitypool]

BC21, I don't see how you'll ever understand CTE as long as you're stuck in the fractional aiming world. Three is no 1/2 ball hit with CTE. If you're down on your shot and are seeing what you think is a perfect 1/2 ball hit, it isn't because you're offset or you're doing it incorrectly. You have to think perception. A cut angle for a shot where the CB and OB are 4 feet apart may be a 15 with a pivot to thicken it while that same cut angle when there is a 1 foot separation may require the opposite pivot. From some of your questions and statements, I don't think you are understanding the offset concept. It sounds like your trying to get a straight line perception looking down your nose.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Are you saying your not sure cause you cant prove it ?

Yes. For both sides.

Users can't prove it's a totally conscious system, and folks like you can't prove the subconscious is at work. Yet.

The truth is that our subconscious does so much more than we know of, and I'm not just talking about pool.

Only one of them is correct, and if I had to choose, I would say the subconscious does play a part in CTE. This doesn't take away from the system, and it doesn't mean Stan should market the system any differently.

There are obviously people that benefit from using the system, and their reasons for why it works shouldn't need to be justified to anyone.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Please provide a video of you shooting the exact shot Stan shoots in that link above. Don't use CTE, aim straight at the edge of the OB, a half-ball hit, as Stan explains. There is no way the ball hits the pocket unless you spin it with outside or have 9" pockets. I should add that I can pocket the ball using CTE, with a 15-inside or a 30-outside....both work. But my final CCB is not pointing at the ob edge. It's pointing outside the edge. Trying to figure it out using this particular vid, where Stan specifically says his CCB solution is a dead 1/2 ball aim line, well, no wonder I couldn't get it to work. I thought my perception was wrong because my final CCB wasn't pointed at ob edge. That was my point to Hogie583.?

Nob touched on it in another post, but this is the wrong way to go about learning CTE.

When I first was learning CTE, I started paying attention to where my tip would point to on the OB. I thought I noticed a trend, but when I brought it up here, Stan said where the tip pointed was irrelevant. Or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact wording.

Edit: It was this thread. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=320400

 

[BC21]

Who ever said that a professional instructor can not be wrong? They are human just like anyone else. And who is to say that one is actually wrong? Have you ever even considered that just maybe, with his eyes, he is correct?

And, why does it matter to you so much if an instructor is wrong that you have to go on and on and on about it? Was your world really shattered that badly at your discovery?

Why be so fixated on an instructor being wrong, when you yourself have been shown to be wrong so many times on here? Are you not also an instructor? One that has a book out?

Do you not yet understand that by being fixated on what you can find that you think is wrong, that in so doing you entirely miss the big picture and thereby never do really learn anything that would actually benefit you? Don't you think that your time would be better spent if you tried to glean what would benefit you rather than what you can find to discredit?

I am plenty wrong on an many things, and humbly admit do. And I'm not trying to discredit anything or anyone. I'm simply offering constructive criticism that may actually help others understand and decipher the difference between what Stan says and what he does in some of his video lessons. I have learned quite a bit by dissecting and fixating on obvious misinformation.

 

[BC21]

BC21, I don't see how you'll ever understand CTE as long as you're stuck in the fractional aiming world. Three is no 1/2 ball hit with CTE. If you're down on your shot and are seeing what you think is a perfect 1/2 ball hit, it isn't because you're offset or you're doing it incorrectly. You have to think perception. A cut angle for a shot where the CB and OB are 4 feet apart may be a 15 with a pivot to thicken it while that same cut angle when there is a 1 foot separation may require the opposite pivot. From some of your questions and statements, I don't think you are understanding the offset concept. It sounds like your trying to get a straight line perception looking down your nose.

My offset alignment is just that, offset, not down my nose. When I pivot to CCB, my vision is then focused on that line, straight down my cue to the center of the CB. It has to be, else my view of CCB would not be correct. I am confident based on results that I am doing exactly what Stan is doing. On some shots it works, but on others it doesn't. Of course, Stan and many others here have years of working out the shots that don't go for me. It's a neat thing, but as Dr Dave assessed years ago....it works well on a lot of shots and not so well others, but practicing any aiming method enough can lead to positive results.

 

[BC21]

Nob touched on it in another post, but this is the wrong way to go about learning CTE.

When I first was learning CTE, I started paying attention to where my tip would point to on the OB. I thought I noticed a trend, but when I brought it up here, Stan said where the tip pointed was irrelevant. Or something along those lines, I don't remember the exact wording.

Edit: It was this thread. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=320400

Ok. I see where that could be a problem, considering when you get your perception line (the initial CCB view after dropping the CTE/ETA line or whatever), your tip at this CCB won't necessarily be pointing at the same place on the OB every time because the CTE/ETA perception changes perspective with varying CB-OB distances. I finally learned the correct pivot and perception by using straight in shots. I noticed the 15-outside always lines me straight in, CCB to center OB, regardless of distance between the balls. That is what helped me illustrate what is happening with the pivots.

 

[Neil]

I am plenty wrong on an many things, and humbly admit do. And I'm not trying to discredit anything or anyone. I'm simply offering constructive criticism that may actually help others understand and decipher the difference between what Stan says and what he does in some of his video lessons. I have learned quite a bit by dissecting and fixating on obvious misinformation.

You think you have learned a lot. And that is the excuse you give yourself. But, you know what you haven't learned doing it your way? You haven't learned how to successfully use CTE to benefit your own game. So, when it's your turn at the table, and you are hill-hill shooting that off angle 9 ball for the win, how much will what you think you have learned actually help you?

Would you rather have the confidence that you know you are going to aim that 9 ball correctly, or would you rather have the confidence that in your mind one of the steps to aiming it correctly might have used the wrong term?

 

[BC21]

You think you have learned a lot. And that is the excuse you give yourself. But, you know what you haven't learned doing it your way? You haven't learned how to successfully use CTE to benefit your own game. So, when it's your turn at the table, and you are hill-hill shooting that off angle 9 ball for the win, how much will what you think you have learned actually help you?

Would you rather have the confidence that you know you are going to aim that 9 ball correctly, or would you rather have the confidence that in your mind one of the steps to aiming it correctly might have used the wrong term?

I understand where you're coming from, but I have the confidence to fire that 9 right on into the pocket based on 34 years of playing pool. If I'm nervous or lacking confidence for whatever reason, I already have a great method of getting an accurate aim line to pocket the ball. I think it's good that everyone can find or use their own method, but I also think it's good to understand how other methods work, even if you never plan on using them.

 

[nobcitypool]

As much as I respect Dr Dave, he doesn't fully understand CTE either. CTE works on all shots if performed correctly. You're simply doing something incorrectly on some of your shots. CTE isn't easy, nowhere will you hear Stan say it is. He most often refers to it as a professional aiming system. I have worked with it more than five years. I still miss shots. If you get to where you understand it and continuously practice, you'll just get better and better with it. That's no different than any other aiming method. You wrote a book on fractional aiming. Are you going to say you never miss a shot? Does that mean your methodology is flawed? Or are there other factors.

If you're really seeing your perception correctly and pivoting correctly, then it is either a stroke or alignment error likely causing your miss. Likely alignment. Were you to spend a few hours with Stan at the table, I believe you would have a different perspective (excuse the play on words) if you spent that time with an open mind. There will be quite a bit of new information in Stan's book as well as better explanations for what's already out there. If your travels ever take you near Louisville, KY, take a day and spend it with Stan. If you don't believe it was worth it, I'll pay for the lesson.

 

[nobcitypool]

Ok. I see where that could be a problem, considering when you get your perception line (the initial CCB view after dropping the CTE/ETA line or whatever), your tip at this CCB won't necessarily be pointing at the same place on the OB every time because the CTE/ETA perception changes perspective with varying CB-OB distances. I finally learned the correct pivot and perception by using straight in shots. I noticed the 15-outside always lines me straight in, CCB to center OB, regardless of distance between the balls. That is what helped me illustrate what is happening with the pivots.

How do you know it lines you up straight in? It sure doesn't look straight in when you're offset.

Set up 15 and 30's on the half table, practice those. As you gain knowledge and consistency, start using more of the table and increase the difficulty.

 

[BC21]

How do you know it lines you up straight in? It sure doesn't look straight in when you're offset.

Set up 15 and 30's on the half table, practice those. As you gain knowledge and consistency, start using more of the table and increase the difficulty.

I don't know until I pivot to CCB, then I focus on where my cue is lined, and I see it's straight in. If I move the CB further away from the OB, my initial CCB as viewed from my perception also moves further from away when compared to where it is was with the CB closer to the OB. But it moves in the same proportion as the pivot angles. For example: with the CB 1 diamond from the OB, my initial CCB as viewed from the 15° perception ends up being 1.3° away from center OB, which happens to be the pivot angle with a 10" bridge. So an outside pivot line crosses through the core of the CB along with the inside pivot line. Together they create a span of about 2.6° (1.3° thicker than my perception line and 1.3° thinner my perception line). These three lines (thick, perception, and thin) widen out as the distance between CB and OB increases, but the thick line remains anchored toward the center of the OB. For a 30-outside, the thick line remains anchored to the edge of the OB.

I may still be doing something different. Lol. But it's interesting. I'm going to post a new thread on pivot angle effects, only using a consistent fractional aim point instead of a perception. The difference is the fact that with a perception the cut angles change proportionally with the pivot angle as the distance between the balls changes. There is a constant, it's the thick/outside pivot. When using the fractional aim line as a constant, both the thick and thin lines change in proportion to distance. . Sorry for going all sciency. Maybe the math people will appreciate it.

 

[nobcitypool]

Not sure what you mean by the pivot angles changing. It's a 1/2 tip pivot. If you're experiencing the pivot angle varying a lot, that tells me you are doing something very incorrect right there. The more you write, the more I think you are not getting aligned properly.

 

[paultex]

It matters when showing that professional instructors can be wrong, shattering the illusion that everything must work as instructed. I followed the steps months ago for this shot, exactly as Stan describes, yet my CCB was not directed to a 1/2 ball aim. He was so matter-of-fact about it being a 30° half ball shot when I knew it wasn't. So I figured I was just doing something wrong with my pivot or perception, but still wondered how he could drill the shot with stun and aiming at half ball. His error left me questioning the entire process he was trying to teach.

Off topic question and nothing loaded about it, from your experience, if 10 racks of nine ball were played out, all from your shooter perspective and just standing behind the cb for every shot, how accurate within a degree could you judge every shot angle as you ran out?

Is it necessary to know the true angle?

The question is based on pure visual and no reference to quadrant calculations, ok?

On pure visual alone, is it a misconception that a person could judge fairly accurately within zero to 30? To 45? Is 45 and beyond to 90 even more difficult?

Again, is it important to know the true angle ultimately?

Thanks.

 

[BC21]

Not sure what you mean by the pivot angles changing. It's a 1/2 tip pivot. If you're experiencing the pivot angle varying a lot, that tells me you are doing something very incorrect right there. The more you write, the more I think you are not getting aligned properly.

The pivot angle doesn't change, but the difference/gap between the rays (the two lines that form the angle) increases with distance. The apex of the angle is at CCB, and when the ob is close, the angle lines are tight together. As the distance increases, the gap between the lines increases and they hit at wider spacings on the ob. That's all I mean.

 

[BC21]

Off topic question and nothing loaded about it, from your experience, if 10 racks of nine ball were played out, all from your shooter perspective and just standing behind the cb for every shot, how accurate within a degree could you judge every shot angle as you ran out?

Is it necessary to know the true angle?

The question is based on pure visual and no reference to quadrant calculations, ok?

On pure visual alone, is it a misconception that a person could judge fairly accurately within zero to 30? To 45? Is 45 and beyond to 90 even more difficult?

Again, is it important to know the true angle ultimately?

Thanks.

I couldn't judge the true angle without using my book. I just recognize shots and shoot them in. Don't care about exact angles.

 

[Neil]

The pivot angle doesn't change, but the difference/gap between the rays (the two lines that form the angle) increases with distance. The apex of the angle is at CCB, and when the ob is close, the angle lines are tight together. As the distance increases, the gap between the lines increases and they hit at wider spacings on the ob. That's all I mean.

Again, you are late to the party. This has all been gone over before. You are doing the pivots wrong. As long as you keep doing them your way, they will never work all the time for you.

Here is a video I did for 90/90 about the pivots for that system. From it you can learn why your way is the wrong way to do it, and find a different way to do the pivot where bridge distance doesn't matter at all. It's not about the pivot, but is all about what you are pivoting to. The half tip in CTE is there just so you know where to place your bridge hand. You are focused on the wrong things in your thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkm9WE8HMoE

 

[BC21]

Again, you are late to the party. This has all been gone over before. You are doing the pivots wrong. As long as you keep doing them your way, they will never work all the time for you.

Here is a video I did for 90/90 about the pivots for that system. From it you can learn why your way is the wrong way to do it, and find a different way to do the pivot where bridge distance doesn't matter at all. It's not about the pivot, but is all about what you are pivoting to. The half tip in CTE is there just so you know where to place your bridge hand. You are focused on the wrong things in your thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkm9WE8HMoE

I've seen this clip several times. You are not doing the same pivot described by Stan. I realize it's a 1/2 ball pivot, not a 1/2 tip, but that's not what I'm talking about. Still, it looks like your cue is exactly on the stick line every time, parallel to the CCB line.

 

[Neil]

I've seen this clip several times. You are not doing the same pivot described by Stan. I realize it's a 1/2 ball pivot, not a 1/2 tip, but that's not what I'm talking about. Still, it looks like your cue is exactly on the stick line every time, parallel to the CCB line.

:banghead::banghead::thud::thud:

 

[nobcitypool]

Neil, he kind of reminds me of my wife. She asks questions about things she knows nothing about. Before you're done answering, she's telling you how wrong you are.