Feasability of European-style private billiard clubs in the U.S.?

German Style Billiard Clubs

ShortBusRuss said:
Here in Germany I am a member of a private billiard club where I pay something like $40-$50 a month, and for that fee, I get a key to the place and can play any time I want, day or night.

The place is set up with around 8 Gold Crowns, and has a smoking room and bar. The bar has alcohol, soda, juice, water, and snacks that help to supplement the costs of running the place. The bar operates on the honor system, with a member responsible for tallying up the incoming money, and putting any excess in an envelope and sliding it into a slot on the safe when the amount gets too large. There is a CCTV camera on the bar to promote honesty in money handling by all club members. The entire club was built out in industrial space, so the rent is very low. There is a certain amount of pressure for club members to support the club by buying their drinks there, but the drinks are fairly priced.

Here is my question... Given that pool is somewhat in the doldrums in the U.S., with pool halls closing every day.. Is this model feasible in the U.S., at least in some of the more populated areas? Here in Germany, this model works in part because of the league system here, where clubs compete directly against each other, in an effort to move up to the next level... Pool isn't any more profitable here as far as prize money is concerned, but a lot of people take the leagues very seriously here.

Now, obviously with our uber-intrusive, totalitarian government as it has existed for the past few decades, liquor might be a real issue. Maybe a private, BYOB "bottle club" concept would work, in the states where it is allowed? Where the bartender basically mixes the alcohol that you bring for a modest fee, as a way to get around not having a liquor license. Might this be feasible on private property, where maybe a pool fan is willing to allow a club to be hosted on their property for free, or a very small rent?

I think if nothing else.. A private club like this would do a lot to develop our playing population, giving serious players a place to really hone their skills economically. Does anyone think anything similar to this model could exist in America?

For the record, I think that much of Europe's domination over the U.S. in recent years is owed to this private club concept, which allows serious players the means to practice any time it is convenient to do so.

Short Bus Russ
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I was a member of the club system back in the 80's, and have always loved the concept of the Verbandsliga, Kreisliga, Bundesliga developmental program. I attempted to get the BCA to encourage looking at this concept back in the early 90's when I was Assistant League and Program Director under John Lewis.
Unfortunately, the structure of membership at the BCA and the room owners saw this as an infringement upon their territory.
You could probably go back and find some old usenet posts I made regarding this subject.

I am still a believer in the system and structure. When you cut your teeth in club play with Ortmann, Souquet, Engert, Eckert, Deigner, et al back then, you learned to appreciate the training that goes with that club membership.
Regulations here are different, and I have always looked at the small town with limited activities for locals as the foot in the door. However, the truth may be, that it won't ever work here. Revenue from membership, discounted club play, and services might keep the lights on, but you won't make a lot of money.
Perhaps, starting the clubs as a Non-Profit Group is another avenue.

I miss the old rides to Scwetzingen, Alzey, and Kaiserslautern to play 14.1 and 8 Ball. Those were the days. Enjoy yourself over there, ShortBusRuss. I envy you.
 
Even though I have 2 tables at home I would most definitely join a private billiard club if we had one in our area. I like the idea of a private vs a public room. It really bothers me when I see casual players who refuse to respect the equipment, that generally seems to be who causes most of the problem in our area. Most of the problem is probably due to the fact that most pool tables here are in bars. It seems about every 5 minutes you hear the sound of a cue smacking the ground when someone knocks them over. Of course these are house cues that are not very nice but maybe they are not very nice because patrons can not find a way to keep them off of the floor. Another huge problem are that casual players cant seem to keep the cue ball on the table during the break. It is possible that nobody has ever informed them that the game is generally played on the bed of the table, maybe??
 
ShortBusRuss said:
Here in Germany I am a member of a private billiard club where I pay something like $40-$50 a month, and for that fee, I get a key to the place and can play any time I want, day or night.

The place is set up with around 8 Gold Crowns, and has a smoking room and bar. The bar has alcohol, soda, juice, water, and snacks that help to supplement the costs of running the place. The bar operates on the honor system, with a member responsible for tallying up the incoming money, and putting any excess in an envelope and sliding it into a slot on the safe when the amount gets too large. There is a CCTV camera on the bar to promote honesty in money handling by all club members. The entire club was built out in industrial space, so the rent is very low. There is a certain amount of pressure for club members to support the club by buying their drinks there, but the drinks are fairly priced.

Here is my question... Given that pool is somewhat in the doldrums in the U.S., with pool halls closing every day.. Is this model feasible in the U.S., at least in some of the more populated areas? Here in Germany, this model works in part because of the league system here, where clubs compete directly against each other, in an effort to move up to the next level... Pool isn't any more profitable here as far as prize money is concerned, but a lot of people take the leagues very seriously here.

Now, obviously with our uber-intrusive, totalitarian government as it has existed for the past few decades, liquor might be a real issue. Maybe a private, BYOB "bottle club" concept would work, in the states where it is allowed? Where the bartender basically mixes the alcohol that you bring for a modest fee, as a way to get around not having a liquor license. Might this be feasible on private property, where maybe a pool fan is willing to allow a club to be hosted on their property for free, or a very small rent?

I think if nothing else.. A private club like this would do a lot to develop our playing population, giving serious players a place to really hone their skills economically. Does anyone think anything similar to this model could exist in America?

For the record, I think that much of Europe's domination over the U.S. in recent years is owed to this private club concept, which allows serious players the means to practice any time it is convenient to do so.

Short Bus Russ
Click to expand...

While without a key or honor bar system, many Elk, etc.. lodges do work a bit the same. Quite a few have several decent tables and run leagues out of them.

I have heard of some people getting together to rent a place on their own with a table or two and share the cost of the rent and equipment.
 
We have one in Ashland, PA. 7 Gold Crown 1's, 1 heated billiard table. Honor system for water/soda/snacks, BYOB. Local beer distributor is conveniently located across the parking lot (same owner). The place is fantastic.
 
What about a pool co-op similar to the many food co-ops out there? Get as many member/owners as you can and then charge whatever per month to participate. Then pay out any profits should any materialize. At a minimum, it would encourage the owner-players to respect the equipment and to help keep the place clean I would think. Thoughts?
 
I would join a club like this in a heartbeat. How does it work if, when you go, you can't get an open table? Here in Charleston the pool halls stay pretty busy with a lot of regulars and the leagues are packed. It would be problematic if you pay monthly dues and then can't play when you want.
 
A friend of mine and I set up a similar club for cigar smokers in north Jersey.

With about 70 members, we would meet once per month at a catering place.
However, we lost our dinner venue when the smoke Nazi's passed the anti smoking laws in NJ in 2006. That year we rented 4200 sq ft of industrial space and built it out. Big screens, pool table, small kitchen, banquet room and vending machines.

This private, members only, club is still in existence and never had a negative month. Access was 24/7. We had a walk in humidor room with lockers where members stored their smokes and booze.

We did not serve any alcohol nor did we serve food. We avoided any licensing and kept a low profile.

If setup properly, and in the right location, I believe a private billiard room could work. Maybe billiard room and cigar club?????

Roscoe
 
Roscoe said:
A friend of mine and I set up a similar club for cigar smokers in north Jersey.

With about 70 members, we would meet once per month at a catering place.
However, we lost our dinner venue when the smoke Nazi's passed the anti smoking laws in NJ in 2006. That year we rented 4200 sq ft of industrial space and built it out. Big screens, pool table, small kitchen, banquet room and vending machines.

This private, members only, club is still in existence and never had a negative month. Access was 24/7. We had a walk in humidor room with lockers where members stored their smokes and booze.

We did not serve any alcohol nor did we serve food. We avoided any licensing and kept a low profile.

If setup properly, and in the right location, I believe a private billiard room could work. Maybe billiard room and cigar club?????

Roscoe
Click to expand...

I think the key here was the interest in Cigars. The Pool crowd is not known for disposable income. Hell of a nice idea you all had and put together. I think thats what it takes.
 
The suggestion of a dual club was to bring in two groups. Pool guys may not be enough to cover the nut but adding in the cigar guys would increase the monthly income.

Roscoe
 
cajunfats said:
I am still a believer in the system and structure. When you cut your teeth in club play with Ortmann, Souquet, Engert, Eckert, Deigner, et al back then, you learned to appreciate the training that goes with that club membership.
Regulations here are different, and I have always looked at the small town with limited activities for locals as the foot in the door. However, the truth may be, that it won't ever work here. Revenue from membership, discounted club play, and services might keep the lights on, but you won't make a lot of money.
Perhaps, starting the clubs as a Non-Profit Group is another avenue.

I miss the old rides to Scwetzingen, Alzey, and Kaiserslautern to play 14.1 and 8 Ball. Those were the days. Enjoy yourself over there, ShortBusRuss. I envy you.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm liking it.. I am only in Bezirksliga right now, because the higher level teams in our clubs had no openings, even though I have been competing well against the best players in the club..

I have been winning most of my 14.1 matches, despite never really having played the game. I ran 24 and out in my league match last weekend.. Given that our level only goes to 50 points, I am going to have to focus a little bit harder and try to push that a little every time I have a chance to compete.

My high run in practice is only around 50-60 or so, more due to lack of practice than anything else. I have noticed I have a tendency to be lackadaisical when playing the last 4-5 balls. I simply don't focus enough on finding the pattern that leads to the break ball properly. I just know I can run a hundred balls, as I am pretty decent at manufacturing breaks balls, etc. Just need more experience in the lead up to the break ball.

Short Bus Russ
 
I know that the New York Sports Club has a private snooker club where the Us Snooker Federation has hosted the finals. IIRC they are called Knights of The Green Table or something like that.

As for the idea, I think it would be an amazing one. honestly, if there is the space, I can see a regular pool hall having at least 10 tables for regulars and leagues with another small room maybe hosting 4 tables to private members only.
 
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