Gail and I were at a micro-brewery this weekend where their thing is to play old vinyl and they pulled the album "Sounds of Silence" out of the bin. Hadn't heard it in over 50 years, that's why it was on my mind.
Lou Figueroa
Stan shuffet and cte pro one
- Thread starter Valiant Thor
- Start date
- Status
Gail and I were at a micro-brewery this weekend where their thing is to play old vinyl and they pulled the album "Sounds of Silence" out of the bin. Hadn't heard it in over 50 years, that's why it was on my mind.
Lou Figueroa
However: You and I both know that these "questions" often are just veiled insults. Very few are actual questions with the intent being to learn.
I sincerely think you are mistaken and, if that's your belief, then I can see how you could misconstrue what's going on. No one who is providing all the knowledge, insights, and amazing technical drawings that Pat is could possibly be participating here because he wants to insult. He's here to gain and share knowledge and his input here is valued by many of us.
But he is being blatantly trolled in this forum and even so he has been very measured in his responses. Just look at the guy who has been telling him to "shut his pie hole" and calling him "asshole" the last few days. (That's what Larry/bbb was alluding to.)
I know you're the mod and it's your call but you should cut him some slack.
Lou Figueroa
Lou, please highlight the question in the above quote. There are hundreds more I could pull, but for the sake of demonstration, humor me and explain why the above is more than a mere insult.
Allow me to be clear.
I am NOT saying that NOBODY may NOT question CTE.
I am saying that if you are offering a genuine question that is clearly an attempt to learn and or understand...I can accept that.
IF you are questioning people here that are trying to learn and asking them to PROVE something to you, then you are not asking a legitimate question.
You are badgering them.
I am NOT saying that NOBODY may NOT question CTE.
I am saying that if you are offering a genuine question that is clearly an attempt to learn and or understand...I can accept that.
IF you are questioning people here that are trying to learn and asking them to PROVE something to you, then you are not asking a legitimate question.
You are badgering them.
your barbs at patrick were mild compared to vorpal cue
but you were part of the "digression" of the thread
i am not biased
as i said i think everyone should
"live and let live "
lou
in general i agree that in a discussion forum there should be dicussion and question and answers
however in this case
you guys have been bickering for years
so its a unique situation
there should be a demilitarized zone where noone crosses into the others territory
jmho
icbw
Does that include questioning its explanations when they don't reflect common sense?
Is commenting in order to teach allowed?
I think all your concerns are addressed by simply decreeing that CTE can only be mentioned in CTE-titled threads and only in positive terms. Those threads won't teach much about the real world, but at least your moderating job will be easier. I'd gladly stay out of them.
pj
chgo
QUOTE=Patrick Johnson] Does that include questioning its explanations when they don't reflect common sense?
Says You. Like the adage " you can lead a horse to water.."
Is commenting in order to teach allowed?
Have you already asked the question and are now beating a dead horse? If you have been given an answer but reject it, that is still your answer. You have no right to attempt beating the answer YOU want out of anyone.
I think all your concerns are addressed by simply decreeing that CTE can only be mentioned in CTE-titled threads and only in positive terms. Those threads won't teach much about the real world, but at least your moderating job will be easier. I'd gladly stay out of them.
It would be easier yet if you simply had said your piece and moved on. I have already compared this to religion. Just because YOU don't believe does NOT give you the right to walk into a church and start antagonizing people.
Nobody has denied you any opportunity to voice your opinion....but at some point, you need to shut up. Yelling from every rooftop and street corner only make you the crazy one.
Says You. Like the adage " you can lead a horse to water.."
Is commenting in order to teach allowed?
Have you already asked the question and are now beating a dead horse? If you have been given an answer but reject it, that is still your answer. You have no right to attempt beating the answer YOU want out of anyone.
I think all your concerns are addressed by simply decreeing that CTE can only be mentioned in CTE-titled threads and only in positive terms. Those threads won't teach much about the real world, but at least your moderating job will be easier. I'd gladly stay out of them.
It would be easier yet if you simply had said your piece and moved on. I have already compared this to religion. Just because YOU don't believe does NOT give you the right to walk into a church and start antagonizing people.
Nobody has denied you any opportunity to voice your opinion....but at some point, you need to shut up. Yelling from every rooftop and street corner only make you the crazy one.
I'll gladly stay out of CTE's "church" - but it seems to be the entire aiming forum.
pj
chgo
Mr. Wilson. To be sure there is enough blame to go around on both sides but it takes a tremendous amount of self control not to bite back when attacked by CTE supporters. I want to show you the following video I did awhile back. The issue was how CTE handles throw at different speeds. Stan did a video claiming that throw is not a factor with CTE. That assertion didn't make any sense to me so I decided to look into the video a little closer and see if I could tell what is happening, as shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zjQoNfXcck&t=1s
There is nothing derogatory in that video. I noticed something that Stan didn't seem to be aware of and brought it to light. I had a genuine interest in understanding how CTE works beyond the simple slogans that sound more like commercials. The video I made was pretty much ignored but instead more videos were produced in reply by Stan that said simply that "I'm in an over cut alignment" and "CTE trumps CIT." That was followed by the usual insults and personal attacks. It's like the political tactic of muddying the waters.
Those of us with a background in science and engineering like to take things apart to see how they work. When I entered the CTE discussions years ago that was my intention. For those of us who are or have been in the business of building bridges or manufacturing pharmaceuticals or designing electrical circuits, we are accustomed to working with people whose jobs depend on getting it right and understanding what they are doing, often from literally a microscopic level and up.
So when the topic is CTE and some of us really want it to work and want to understand it beyond the sound byte level it comes as a bit of a shock that instead of engaging in a back and forth, we get insults. I would have thought a productive response to my video would have been something like, "Hey, you know I never looked at those shots in slow motion. There is some movement due to throw. Here's what must have been going on in that video, etc. etc." Instead I get the usual responses:
1. Nobody responds to the data presented in the video, then we get
2. It's already been explained to you a dozen times,
3. You have never taken it to the table to learn it,
4. You are a hater,
5. The insults get worse from there.
I'm trying to illustrate in the example above that virtually all of the "skeptics" I know in this forum really just want straight talk rather than what I eventually referred to as a cult following to CTE (speaking of religion). Nobody has it "in" for Stan. If Stan and other CTE supporters won't entertain simple questions of physics then please at least stop the unfounded assertions. This kind of thing is harmful to new people learning the game thinking there is some magic system that makes the ball go in without your own experience influencing the aiming process.
This forum has been a peaceful place lately and I don't think a little CTE flare up here or there is hurting anything. I think most individuals left in this forum are adult enough to let it go rather than go bezerk over every little thing. I think Vorpal is basically insane but his pivot triangle is interesting and well presented. My aunt used to work with insane people and she always found them to be far more interesting than "normal" people. Greyghost and paultex are also fun if not exhausting reads, but I digress. :smile: kidding, kidding!
It would be nice if the forum weren't under the thread of censorship and bans every time a little CTE dust up occurs. It really isn't as big a deal as it used to be.
Like I said above: you don't have any right to demand an answer.
Have you already stated your question? If yes, them move along.
You were not satisfied with the answer? Accept or don't...either way, you don't have any leverage to continue beating that horse.
Frankly, I do not care who knows or proves or answers what questions.
Demanding or arguing about the answers given isn't acceptable.
Why is it too hard to say "ok"....and move along?
Years worth of bickering has worn everyone out. I have answers, but nobody will be happy if I decide.
Dave, context matters. Patrick said it but just a few posts before here's something else that was said in that thread:
Then Larry suggested PJ butt out of CTE-related threads and the words you quoted were said. All considered, it was a measured response. Particularly in consideration of the fact that some here would have incurred, if not an out right ban for what Vorpal said, a warning at a minimum.
Lou Figueroa
Your church analogy is off the mark.
This forum, or any particular thread, is not the good Church of CTE. They are the good Church of Aiming and all faiths (or lack of them) should be welcomed. There is no reason rabbis, priests, and mullahs can't discuss and point out why the religious beliefs of other faiths are wrong, inconsistent, or even deeply flawed.
If you want there to be a good Church of CTE it should be a separate forum, which I have little doubt most of us would be more than happy to respect.
Lou Figueroa
My statements are meant as a warning to all. Anyone that wants to test that water and call any other poster a name will be met with harsh consequences for their actions.
Years worth of anger from all participants. If I need to make peace...it won't be pretty.
I certainly would - and I'll bet CTE users would like it too. Not to mention the aggravation it would save Mr. Wilson.
CTE's the reason aiming got its own forum in the first place - but there are other aiming topics, none of which need to be so exclusive.
pj <- never would be heard a discouraging word
chgo
Last edited:
Re the bold. Here's an analogy. Brian came out with his Poolology book last year. He decided to keep it simple and not include every last technical detail. Of course, people here wanted to know those things. Somebody told Brian that Poolology didn't work for a distance closer than 8 inches. Brian's reply was to agree and explain in detail why it doesn't work at that distance and how to adjust for that. He made updates to his book, including technical details, and reissued books to many people for free.
Take the same issue with CTE: Stan, xyz doesn't seem right. Answer: It's been explained a dozen times and you don't know what you are talking about so GFY (that's pretty much a quote). We are being asked to accept that as an answer and move along instead of asking again. It's not a very satisfying solution, but if that's the way it is then so be it.
Stan posted, on more than one occasion, "STFU." Never got a wag of the finger from any mod. It's the way we were.
Lou Figueroa
with apologies to
Marvin Hamlisch
- Status