I am curious to see how people respond to this.

trentfromtoledo said:
Not here to prove a point or Argue. I just want to see how people respond to this. I am going ask a non-specific and very general question:

In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
Click to expand...
I would not call it cheating, but it may be ruled a foul - either a ball-in-hand for your opponent penalty or possibly loss of game for an unsportsmanlike move. However, if your opponent did not see it or call it on you but you know you did it, yes it could be considered a form of cheating by not being honest enough to call it on yourself.

Without giving us a more specific example of exactly what you are referring to, it's hard to know how to answer this question.
 
I obviously have my own answer to this question.

When a person enters into a game with rules, one is accepting those rules and agreeing to not break them. Intentionally breaking them breaks that agreement. People use the penalty to justify the the intentional breaking of the rules. The penalty is obviously the punishment, but, it does not negate the intent or the breaking of the agreement to play by the rules. Intent is the difference between manslaughter and murder. I know that is an extreme comparison, but, it is true.

I am interested to see what others think about it. I notice lots of league players definitely will do just about anything to win and come up with new ways to break the rules all the time. At the end of the day, any money people win this way is by far a "life changing" amount.

Does anyone think it says anything about Pool as a "Sport" ?? When breaking the rules is a norm and people are openly willing to do it? Pool already has the alcohol, gambling and shady aspects of it doesn't it? I would never feel good about winning a game from this strategy. I know there are situations where there is absolutely no chance of making a fair hit, but, that RARELY comes up for me.

Losing is a part of winning. I would always rather lose with dignity than win by breaking the rules. People who want to win by any means necessary are not people I want to play any game with. I know it is an "accepted" strategy in many games, that does not mean it is right. Just my $0.02 :)

Trent from Toledo

p.s. Still not trying to argue. Just interested in what people think.
 
I’ll be specific.... this is the dumbest question ever asked on this forum.
 
I wouldn't consider an intentional foul breaking the rules so why doesn't the OP just tell us what the point is
 
I don't think it is, in an absolute sense.

For example:
Taking an intentional foul in straight pool isn't cheating! That would be absurd. You'd have to perfectly know the intention behind every shot, which is unknowable and would lead you down a road full of absurdities.

Picking up a ball and moving it with your hand, without disclosing it to your opponent would be cheating. I think personally that for me to call something cheating there would have to be some level of deception involved. If a person looked straight at me and told me that he was going to move the ball(illegally), he just conceded the match, he didn't cheat at all. Obviously one could then argue that sometimes people accidentally touch balls, and you can't know if it was intentional or not, so in that case it's more of a judgement call than in the intentional foul example.

It all comes down to judgement, in the end. If you categorically call all rule breaking cheating, then the word takes on a whole different meaning than what is commonly used today.
 
I may be wrong here there's a rule the shooter has the call if there's no referee present. Is it a rule or a custom? I've both seen and been in a situation where a ball skimmed the rail avoiding a foul but the opponent said the ball didn't touch and called ball in hand for himself. The shooter swears it DID touch and no foul. Is the argument a rule of sportsmanship violation? And who wins? Tempers boil sometimes to swearing and even threatening....sportsmanship?? Mitch
 
logical said:
I wouldn't consider an intentional foul breaking the rules so why doesn't the OP just tell us what the point is
Click to expand...

Just to see what people think. Nothing more. I clearly stated my point of view on the subject and know for a fact that most people will disagree with my perspective. Everyone has the right to their own perspective. :)

Trent from Toledo
 
trob said:
I’ll be specific.... this is the dumbest question ever asked on this forum.
Click to expand...

Obviously other people do not think as you do. Quite a few responses already.

There is this thing about the internet I find helpful: When I see something I don't like I simply stop looking at it, move on and don't think about it anymore. :thumbup:


Trent
 
trentfromtoledo said:
In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
Click to expand...

Intentionally breaking the rules....I wouldn't call it cheating. I'd say it's Bad sportsmanship, inappropriate conduct.

Cheating to me...OnePOCKET...your opponent has a penny on the table for a ball owed and knocks it off the table...or picks it up with the chalk, or steals a ball from your side or puts a pocketed ball on their side that you made. Or tampering with the score beads.
 
Last edited:
trentfromtoledo said:
Not here to prove a point or Argue. I just want to see how people respond to this. I am going ask a non-specific and very general question:

In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
Click to expand...

Depends on what you do. If you foul and try to hide the fact your fouled, or move a ball and say you did not, etc.. that is cheating and breaking the rules.

If you do something like commit a foul on purpose, that is not cheating.

But then you also have deliberate fouls that are blatant and unsportmanlike, which is pretty much "cheating" vs a normal foul you can play, say not hitting a rail with a ball or pocketing the opponents ball and giving up ball in hand.

If you are playing with bar bangers, playing a safe could be cheating to them LOL

So what did you do and who said you were cheating?
 
hang-the-9 said:
Depends on what you do. If you foul and try to hide the fact your fouled, or move a ball and say you did not, etc.. that is cheating and breaking the rules.

If you do something like commit a foul on purpose, that is not cheating.

But then you also have deliberate fouls that are blatant and unsportmanlike, which is pretty much "cheating" vs a normal foul you can play, say not hitting a rail with a ball or pocketing the opponents ball and giving up ball in hand.

If you are playing with bar bangers, playing a safe could be cheating to them LOL

So what did you do and who said you were cheating?
Click to expand...

Nothing like that, just like it says. I was curious to see what people think. I did explain my point of view on page 2 :)

Trent
 
trentfromtoledo said:
Does anyone think it says anything about Pool as a "Sport" ?? When breaking the rules is a norm and people are openly willing to do it? Pool already has the alcohol, gambling and shady aspects of it doesn't it? People who want to win by any means necessary are not people I want to play any game with. I know it is an "accepted" strategy in many games, that does not mean it is right. Just my $0.02 :)
Click to expand...

This ain't a pool issue. every sport has it. intentionally hitting batters in baseball, grabbing a jersey to keep a receiver from catching a ball, soccer players taking a dive, fights in hockey, etc.

BTW, all those sports have shady aspects, alcohol and gambling too
 
trentfromtoledo said:
Nothing like that, just like it says. I was curious to see what people think. I did explain my point of view on page 2 :)

Trent
Click to expand...

Most of the time when I see questions like this it's something that happened to someone or they saw something and want to find out who was right.

Breaking a rule is not cheating on it's own, I don't think anyone would think that. You accept the penalty for the foul, it's done all the time. You would be cheating if you hid the fact you broke the rules.

In a US Open 8 ball match, I saw Alex Pagulayan and another player pocket the other person's balls like 4 times in a row because they had something tied up in a funny way and they were trying to get the other player less balls to use to break it up. Where they "breaking the rules" by not hitting their set of balls, yes. Where they "cheating"? No.
 
trentfromtoledo said:
Does anyone think it says anything about Pool as a "Sport" ?? When breaking the rules is a norm and people are openly willing to do it? Pool already has the alcohol, gambling and shady aspects of it doesn't it? I would never feel good about winning a game from this strategy. I know there are situations where there is absolutely no chance of making a fair hit, but, that RARELY comes up for me.

Losing is a part of winning. I would always rather lose with dignity than win by breaking the rules. People who want to win by any means necessary are not people I want to play any game with. I know it is an "accepted" strategy in many games, that does not mean it is right. Just my $0.02 :)

Trent from Toledo

p.s. Still not trying to argue. Just interested in what people think.
Click to expand...

Oh, rubbish. You're trying so hard to take the moral high ground and then lay blame to pools "trouble" to the rest of us. You can stop now.

In baseball, you can tag up on a fly ball, but you can't leave until the fielder touches the ball. If he leaves early and the other teams doesn't see it, nobody and I mean nobody has called that guy a cheater, not in over 100 years of baseball.

But, somehow baseball survived for over 100 years and is a multi-billion dollar business with some pro's signing contracts north of $325M.... yep, $325M might be more than every pro tournament ever played, in the world, for the past 100 years.

The rules are in place to follow, and if not, they place a penalty on the infraction. If it was that "serious" the game would be forfeited. I've yet to see a baseball game forfeited for "cheating". Heck, the last game I saw forfeited involved a local disc jockey in Chicago blowing up disco records between a double header. The explosion/fire caused too much damage to the field, and the White Sox had to forfeit the second game.

Heck, the same White Sox "tanked" the World Series for cash and baseball still survived. So, not following a rule to the "t" in a game of pool is not a big deal, seriously, it really is not.
 
jokrswylde said:
This ain't a pool issue. every sport has it. intentionally hitting batters in baseball, grabbing a jersey to keep a receiver from catching a ball, soccer players taking a dive, fights in hockey, etc.

BTW, all those sports have shady aspects, alcohol and gambling too
Click to expand...

Taking a dive I would classify as cheating. If whatever happened was not cause for a penalty, and you act like it was, that is cheating. Some of those soccer players do more acting than playing soccer. About as idiotic as watching basketball where half the points in the game are on free throws.
 
By the OP's definition would an intentional walk in baseball be cheating? This is the American pastime, apple pie and all, as opposed to pool. What about the outfielder in baseball holding up his mitt as if it is a catch when he knows all along that he short-hopped the ball. Would that be cheating? I'm just not sure about the question. It seems that the OP thinks an intentional foul is cheating, I could be wrong. I don't think so and can find plenty of examples from other sports that are questionable practices at best.
 
Last edited:
Hmm, let me see

trentfromtoledo said:
Not here to prove a point or Argue. I just want to see how people respond to this. I am going ask a non-specific and very general question:

In playing any format of Pool: Is it cheating to intentionally break the rules?

Trent from Toledo
Click to expand...

First , did you get caught ? No, then it didn't happen.
Yes, say it was an accident, or say I saw you do the same thing and didn't say
anything, or if you're ahead throw a big fit, deny it and threaten to quit,
jack
 
Again, I am not here to argue. I just wanted to see what peoples opinions and thoughts on the topic. People who made this personal and directed their "arguments" to me, that was not the point. I did express my opinions and thoughts about it. I am not saying they are "right" and everyone should think the way I do, but, I am saying they are RIGHT for me. :) To be clear: I did not have a particular situation in mind, just a general question about breaking the rules intentionally.

Trent fromToledo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top