Safe break in 10 ball, another Duel special.
- Thread starter hang-the-9
- Start date
Classic. Shane's like... wtf? What is it with this guy?
I think Shane should say, "Only the 1, 3 and 7 hit cushions. Bad break. That's a foul. I get ball in hand."
If you can get four balls to cushions like that, it's a great break if you aren't making anything. The solution is to have a three-point rule as in nine ball.
Agreed, Bob, but still... seriously? Why should anyone even have to deal with that? It is *SO* against the "spirit" of competition, as corny as that may sound. And it's disruptive. And, as Corey HAS to know wayyyyy before the first time he breaks that ( pun intended ) out of his bag of tricks, the powers that be are gong to shoot it down. I also seriously think if he thought he could break the same and only get two balls to the rail, he'd do it.
Sometimes I just have to wonder... and I'm not even sure about what, anymore.
Leagues have put in rules prohibiting doing a safe break. That's what one pocket and straight pool are for. Crap like this is why they put in the 3 ball past the headstring rule, which caused it's own issues where people break hard, can make a ball or even two, but end up with an illegal break because some balls happened to hit each other or hit the side pocket points and not travel to the other side.
HT9 - Zactly what I meant when I said it's also "disruptive".
One of the fascinating but also dangerous things about life is how certain things, once in existence, tend to take on a life of their own in ways totally unintended. Once something exists, it's like a pebble tossed into a lake, and the ripples it causes seemingly go on forever... imagine how much time and energy, all all fronts, has been expended since whoever it was that first time, broke "safe". Or "soft". Or whatever...
Lots and lots and lots.
Screwing around with the break is kinda Corey's thing, so it's no big surprise to see him at it again. So far, he's played one pocket with an open break, nine ball with a soft offensive break, and now it's ten ball with a soft defensive break. All of these were within the rules, at least at the time. The one pocket break wasn't terribly effective once the initial surprise wore off. The nine ball break was effective, but made the already mind-numbing game of modern nine ball even more boring, so now we have all kinds of breaking and racking rules in place to make it "exciting", right? I expect the same will happen with ten ball.
As much fun as it is to smash the break, I don't think that ten ball rewards you for it consistently enough. The only game I know that really does is American Rotation, since you're guaranteed to be the one at the table following the break, with BIH.
As much fun as it is to smash the break, I don't think that ten ball rewards you for it consistently enough. The only game I know that really does is American Rotation, since you're guaranteed to be the one at the table following the break, with BIH.
If you agreed to play someone 3 sets for $5k, money posted and they started out breaking like that-What could you do about it? Nothing! Corey is pointing out, to his advantage, a possible flaw in the rules that can now be corrected and he has one foot on the floor also..
However i think this video is not new and the strategy may not have worked out for Corey so no worries i think.
However i think this video is not new and the strategy may not have worked out for Corey so no worries i think.
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You expect pool players to play under some kind of unspoken undefinable "gentleman's agreement'?
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in a tournament you play within the rules and do whatever the rules allow. thats what a tournament is about. it is a set of rules you follow.
cash game is what rules are set at the start. otherwise standard pool rules.
why should a player have to smash the break if he thinks it is better for him not to. you are not playing for the tv watchers you are playing for yourself in a tournament to win the money.
cash game is what rules are set at the start. otherwise standard pool rules.
why should a player have to smash the break if he thinks it is better for him not to. you are not playing for the tv watchers you are playing for yourself in a tournament to win the money.
zackly.....
I am with you on this Maha, its not a foul or an intentional foul or playing outside the rules at all. I could see if he broke the rules and even worse if he did so intentionally, then its wrong. With all the people who agree its ok to intentionally foul to win, how is this even close to breaking the rules? I can understand how Shane is pissed about it, but, it is another players strategy and within the rules.
Trent from Toledo
Precisely!! The "gentleman's agreement" is to play by the rules, aka not to cheat or bend the rules.
Trent from Toledo
Playing a safety is still against the "spirit of competition" in lots of banger bars.
I think the spirit of competition is to compete at whatever legal game you find yourself in.
pj
chgo
Leagues have put in place "no safe breaks" as a rule to stop this from happening. This is why we can't have nice things. Soon the breaking and racking part of the rules will be longer than the entire rest of the rule book if players keep messing with things. It's like exploits in video games. Some player finds a way to mess with the rules "within the rules", doing something the programmers did not expect. The flaw is then fixed so you can't do it, but at times at the cost of players that play withing the rules. Such as soft break in 9 ball. It got gamed, the fix was to say you must have 3 balls go past the headstring, which then proceeded to punish people breaking hard that actually made a ball but got unlucky with kisses or balls going off side pocket points in the wrong direction.
So mess with rules, rules get fixed to prevent exploiting the rules, new rules cause other issues. The correct fix would be not to try to mess with the rules in the first place. On a side note this is exactly why other teams don't like the Patriots, they know the rules more than anyone else and can manipulate them better than other teams.
Ta tap tap...
Just my opinion and I am sticking to it because no rule was broken. We are allowed to disagree. Evidently this tournaments rules allow for it. Now them changing it and the players keeping up with the changes is another topic.
People who program the video games intentionally program those "cheats" into the video games....
Like I said: most people are totally fine with people intentionally fouling, in other words breaking the rules. There was no rule broken and to me the strategy is completely legitimate because no rule was broken. It obviously stopped Shane from running out, to me, there is ZERO difference than playing a good safety after the break.
Trent from Toledo
Part of the issue here is that pool players don't really even agree on what the open break is: Is it just another skill shot with a few extra rules, is it a way to randomize each game (after which the game actually starts), or is it something in between? Should we admonish players for trying to park the cue ball, avoid scratching, make a particular ball, break from a different angle, soft break, etc.? Without any rules preventing it, why would any of those means of trying to achieve an advantage be subject to criticism?
I think part of the attraction of pool is the randomization, so I think it's important to preserve that, but there's more than one way to do so. Most one pocket games start off looking very much alike, but the game can develop in drastically different ways because of the forced interaction of safety play. Straight pool layouts, even though they are mostly confined to half the table, are also fairly random with a soft break.
The issue with rotation games, and to a slightly less degree, eight ball, is that tight random patterns aren't runnable because of the constraint of hitting a particular ball or suit. Therefore, you need randomness and spacing to keep things exciting. American Rotation encourages this by guaranteeing that the breaker will get to take advantage of creating separation, but there is no such guarantee in nine or ten ball. Without some incentive, the only recourse is to formulate rules forcing the breaker to do what otherwise might not be in their best interest.
I think part of the attraction of pool is the randomization, so I think it's important to preserve that, but there's more than one way to do so. Most one pocket games start off looking very much alike, but the game can develop in drastically different ways because of the forced interaction of safety play. Straight pool layouts, even though they are mostly confined to half the table, are also fairly random with a soft break.
The issue with rotation games, and to a slightly less degree, eight ball, is that tight random patterns aren't runnable because of the constraint of hitting a particular ball or suit. Therefore, you need randomness and spacing to keep things exciting. American Rotation encourages this by guaranteeing that the breaker will get to take advantage of creating separation, but there is no such guarantee in nine or ten ball. Without some incentive, the only recourse is to formulate rules forcing the breaker to do what otherwise might not be in their best interest.
So Corey wants to do a soft break, ok.....
He doesn't mention soft break before hand, then when he fouls he lies/ denies it.
Which is why I don't like Corey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fGiCm88hPI
He doesn't mention soft break before hand, then when he fouls he lies/ denies it.
Which is why I don't like Corey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fGiCm88hPI