Who was it for you?

[Poodle of Doom]

For the first 3 years of my playing, while in University, I'd play by myself after hours in a bowling alley. I'd also play against the old janitor at the alley after the place closed, late at night. I worked there part time. We'd not really compete, just shoot for fun and shoot the breeze. Then he got cancer and died within a couple of weeks, too fast to even say goodbye, they just rushed him to hospital, I got to visit him once and then he died. I really miss him, he was a funny guy with a million funny stories. He really couldn't shoot straight any more, even if his stroke was quite nice. I suspect he let me win, quite a lot.

After that I began playing at a real pool hall. I got quite a shock when I watched my first national championship, watching my country's greatest player of all time run the balls so perfectly that it looked like a walk in the park. I never really knew the level of play that existed just outside my doorstep, I thought all the good players were American. I've probably played more by myself in mostly empty pool halls than most people do in a lifetime of play.

For a long while I didn't really feel like competing after some bad experiences. I played two tournaments and ran into the two biggest jerks in my country (not just me saying that and later run-ins with them has confirmed that impression), really bad luck. After about 7-8 years of solitary practis and playing a select group of friends, I finally started competing again, and I really became a much better player because of it.

Playing by yourself or with a few friends is great, and may be all you neeed, but for me, the challenge of meeting someone unknown and beating them or being beaten, is a great thrill. I'm still mostly motivated by improving my own level of play, but there is something to be said for battle-testing your knowledge...

I read this post on another thread, and I got to thinking about a lot of different people. But, I primarily focused on those people who's skill was always just a little bit better than mine. Those people who were always there, even if it was only for a couple games, or maybe a beer over a rack. Someone who'd shoot the breeze with you.

I'm curious to hear all of your stories. I'd like to think that everyone here had someone like that. Who they spent time with; who was more than capable of showing them a few things, but let them win more than they let on. Who was it for you?

 

[ShortBusRuss]

I read this post on another thread, and I got to thinking about a lot of different people. But, I primarily focused on those people who's skill was always just a little bit better than mine. Those people who were always there, even if it was only for a couple games, or maybe a beer over a rack. Someone who'd shoot the breeze with you.

I'm curious to hear all of your stories. I'd like to think that everyone here had someone like that. Who they spent time with; who was more than capable of showing them a few things, but let them win more than they let on. Who was it for you?

Nobody ever let me win, but I came up in a time period where pool was more popular, and there was more competition, and more money to be made.

For me, it was an Army Sergeant Major Paul Seto. I got semi-hooked on pool playing in the barracks when I was attending training, but had no stick, and was using aluminum house sticks whose tips had fallen off, and the edges had peeled back to form a concave surface to hit the ball with. I had a naturally straight-ish stroke, and figured out how to roll the ball, so I was still able to run 3/4 balls with those sticks.

Fast forward to my first duty station, Seoul, South Korea. Paul Seto was the top American player there, and even placed second to Koreans in the two big tournaments that were held while I was there. The rec center used to give away a little radio, or some other trinket for winning the event/placing second, and he just pounded everyone else there for the entire year I was there.

I was a very competitive kid at 20 years old, and as I was leaving to go to my next duty station, Fort Lewis, WA, I told SGM Seto, "The next time I see you, I am gonna be good enough to beat you." He laughed at me.

That laughter fueled my practice sessions for the next 18 months or so. I got off post and went to play tournaments against the better players in Tacoma/Seattle. SGM Seto actually PCSed from Korea, and got stationed at Fort Lewis!!

He showed up a few months later at the Fort Lewis 8 ball championship.. I was playing decent, and SGM Seto lost a match, and we met in the finals. He was playing VERY well, and before I knew it, he had beaten me the first set, and now it was a race to 5 for the championship.. It got to the point where he was leading me 4-2, and he was running out the final game.. I was sitting in the chair, pretty dejected. One thing about SGM Seto.. If the runout was there and anywhere close to obvious, he was gonna get out. Very steady player, with a good cueball, but not anywhere close to world class.

Inexplicably, he slightly overcut a ball, and rattled it, and the ball stood up in the pocket, blocking the main pocket for like three of my balls... I sat there for a few seconds, composed my mind, and then got up, and went to work... I ran out that rack, having to get precise position on at least two balls to work around his ball blocking the pocket, and then I broke and ran two racks behind it, to win the championship outta nowhere.

After the match, I asked SGM Seto if he remembered our last words in Korea, 18 months before, where I told him I would be good enough to beat him one day.. Let down of all letdowns, he didn't remember... :-(

In hindsight.. He was a pretty good player, but no world beater. When I've played well in recent 8 ball events, I've had multiple matches where I broke and ran 3+ racks in a race to 5, where the opponent was doing the same, in an alternate break format, which creates intense pressure. SGM Seto would probably not have been capable of maintaining that level of play for multiple matches.

Ahhh... To grow in one's game and to see our heros fall, is both a sweet, and terrible thing.

Anyways... SGM Seto was the player that shaped my game more than anyone else, and who I remember most fondly..

Short Bus Russ

 

[Poodle of Doom]

Nobody ever let me win, but I came up in a time period where pool was more popular, and there was more competition, and more money to be made.

For me, it was an Army Sergeant Major Paul Seto. I got semi-hooked on pool playing in the barracks when I was attending training, but had no stick, and was using aluminum house sticks whose tips had fallen off, and the edges had peeled back to form a concave surface to hit the ball with. I had a naturally straight-ish stroke, and figured out how to roll the ball, so I was still able to run 3/4 balls with those sticks.

Fast forward to my first duty station, Seoul, South Korea. Paul Seto was the top American player there, and even placed second to Koreans in the two big tournaments that were held while I was there. The rec center used to give away a little radio, or some other trinket for winning the event/placing second, and he just pounded everyone else there for the entire year I was there.

I was a very competitive kid at 20 years old, and as I was leaving to go to my next duty station, Fort Lewis, WA, I told SGM Seto, "The next time I see you, I am gonna be good enough to beat you." He laughed at me.

That laughter fueled my practice sessions for the next 18 months or so. I got off post and went to play tournaments against the better players in Tacoma/Seattle. SGM Seto actually PCSed from Korea, and got stationed at Fort Lewis!!

He showed up a few months later at the Fort Lewis 8 ball championship.. I was playing decent, and SGM Seto lost a match, and we met in the finals. He was playing VERY well, and before I knew it, he had beaten me the first set, and now it was a race to 5 for the championship.. It got to the point where he was leading me 4-2, and he was running out the final game.. I was sitting in the chair, pretty dejected. One thing about SGM Seto.. If the runout was there and anywhere close to obvious, he was gonna get out. Very steady player, with a good cueball, but not anywhere close to world class.

Inexplicably, he slightly overcut a ball, and rattled it, and the ball stood up in the pocket, blocking the main pocket for like three of my balls... I sat there for a few seconds, composed my mind, and then got up, and went to work... I ran out that rack, having to get precise position on at least two balls to work around his ball blocking the pocket, and then I broke and ran two racks behind it, to win the championship outta nowhere.

After the match, I asked SGM Seto if he remembered our last words in Korea, 18 months before, where I told him I would be good enough to beat him one day.. Let down of all letdowns, he didn't remember... :-(

In hindsight.. He was a pretty good player, but no world beater. When I've played well in recent 8 ball events, I've had multiple matches where I broke and ran 3+ racks in a race to 5, where the opponent was doing the same, in an alternate break format, which creates intense pressure. SGM Seto would probably not have been capable of maintaining that level of play for multiple matches.

Ahhh... To grow in one's game and to see our heros fall, is both a sweet, and terrible thing.

Anyways... SGM Seto was the player that shaped my game more than anyone else, and who I remember most fondly..

Short Bus Russ

That's a great story. These are the ones I love to hear.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I read this post on another thread, and I got to thinking about a lot of different people. But, I primarily focused on those people who's skill was always just a little bit better than mine. Those people who were always there, even if it was only for a couple games, or maybe a beer over a rack. Someone who'd shoot the breeze with you.

I'm curious to hear all of your stories. I'd like to think that everyone here had someone like that. Who they spent time with; who was more than capable of showing them a few things, but let them win more than they let on. Who was it for you?

My earliest years playing pool were in our basement on our home table - an inexpensive 7-foot table my parents had gotten us for Christmas one year, when I was likely around 8 or 9. As I grew up in a small college town, there were very good tables in many of the dorm basements at the nearby college. At around 13 (I'm now 61) I started shooting there regularly - often by myself when no one was around, and often with college students, who mostly knew that I wasn't a student there but accepted me there, as I was already good enough to beat nearly all of them. The game most popular at that time, early 1970s, among the better players, was straight pool. We would usually race to either 25 or 50.

There was one player there, a college student, probably 5-6 years older than me, who was very good, who was also one of the top players on the college's golf team, the other sport that I played constantly. He wasn't much better than me early on, but he knew a lot, I assume from having played with good players at some point in his past - maybe his Dad. The one thing I remember most vividly he taught me, was telling me to stop lining up the shot with my cue aiming at a point on the OB like I'm going to shoot the OB in the pocket, and to just trust myself to make all my shots without having to utilize that crutch.

Before he graduated and left, certainly partly due to his helping me, I got to where I cold beat him regularly at pool, but never at golf. I never kept up with him, and I often wonder if he still plays a good game of pool.

 

[Poodle of Doom]

My earliest years playing pool were in our basement on our home table - an inexpensive 7-foot table my parents had gotten us for Christmas one year, when I was likely around 8 or 9. As I grew up in a small college town, there were very good tables in many of the dorm basements at the nearby college. At around 13 (I'm now 61) I started shooting there regularly - often by myself when no one was around, and often with college students, who mostly knew that I wasn't a student there but accepted me there, as I was already good enough to beat nearly all of them. The game most popular at that time, early 1970s, among the better players, was straight pool. We would usually race to either 25 or 50.

There was one player there, a college student, probably 5-6 years older than me, who was very good, who was also one of the top players on the college's golf team, the other sport that I played constantly. He wasn't much better than me early on, but he knew a lot, I assume from having played with good players at some point in his past - maybe his Dad. The one thing I remember most vividly he taught me, was telling me to stop lining up the shot with my cue aiming at a point on the OB like I'm going to shoot the OB in the pocket, and to just trust myself to make all my shots without having to utilize that crutch.

Before he graduated and left, certainly partly due to his helping me, I got to where I cold beat him regularly at pool, but never at golf. I never kept up with him, and I often wonder if he still plays a good game of pool.

A good game of pool, but not a good game of golf?

I appreciate hearing these stories. I can always put myself in the other persons shoes.

 

[franko]

O'Neil

For me it was my best friend the late John O'Neil. When we were kids I loved watching him play at our local room Flynn's. John was not the best but he had a silky smooth stroke and loved to gamble.

I got away from Pool around age 18 and life took John and I our separate ways. Then in 1994 out of nowhere John showed up at my door , my wife and I had just moved into our new dream home we had built. John wanted a tour and when we got to the basement he saw a 8 ft table I had set up just for recreation. John ran out to his car and came in with a 2x4 instroke case and pulled out a Richard Harris cue. I honestly did not think there were people making custom cues anymore I thought the industry was all production cues.

John never got away from Pool and over the next few months brought me up to speed on Cues, tables, Tournaments and advice on anything Pool related. I went from a 8 ft table to a 9 ft Big G Gandy, then to a 9 ft Red label Diamond and finally a 9 ft Blue label Diamond. Have owned just about every top Cuemaker cue and played in tons of local tournaments and eventually started and ran my own 9 ball league and straight pool league.

We traveled to every Derby City , US Open, SBE a few Camel stops and major Viking tour stops from 1995 thru 2007. John lost a severe battle with Cancer in 2009 but because of John I never lost my interest in playing or collecting cues. My own room is filled with memories of players both local and professional and many of John and I taken during our travels.
It was John O'Neil that I thank for giving me a great passion for Pool.

 

[Poodle of Doom]

For me it was my best friend the late John O'Neil. When we were kids I loved watching him play at our local room Flynn's. John was not the best but he had a silky smooth stroke and loved to gamble.

I got away from Pool around age 18 and life took John and I our separate ways. Then in 1994 out of nowhere John showed up at my door , my wife and I had just moved into our new dream home we had built. John wanted a tour and when we got to the basement he saw a 8 ft table I had set up just for recreation. John ran out to his car and came in with a 2x4 instroke case and pulled out a Richard Harris cue. I honestly did not think there were people making custom cues anymore I thought the industry was all production cues.

John never got away from Pool and over the next few months brought me up to speed on Cues, tables, Tournaments and advice on anything Pool related. I went from a 8 ft table to a 9 ft Big G Gandy, then to a 9 ft Red label Diamond and finally a 9 ft Blue label Diamond. Have owned just about every top Cuemaker cue and played in tons of local tournaments and eventually started and ran my own 9 ball league and straight pool league.

We traveled to every Derby City , US Open, SBE a few Camel stops and major Viking tour stops from 1995 thru 2007. John lost a severe battle with Cancer in 2009 but because of John I never lost my interest in playing or collecting cues. My own room is filled with memories of players both local and professional and many of John and I taken during our travels.
It was John O'Neil that I thank for giving me a great passion for Pool.

That's the thing about this story, and so many others like it. It sounds like the people we came across actually changed out lives.

 

[lfigueroa]

I read this post on another thread, and I got to thinking about a lot of different people. But, I primarily focused on those people who's skill was always just a little bit better than mine. Those people who were always there, even if it was only for a couple games, or maybe a beer over a rack. Someone who'd shoot the breeze with you.

I'm curious to hear all of your stories. I'd like to think that everyone here had someone like that. Who they spent time with; who was more than capable of showing them a few things, but let them win more than they let on. Who was it for you?

In The Great American Pool Hall Tradition, no one ever showed me anything.

I had to learn the hard way: practicing, competeing, a few books here and there like Mosconi, Lassiter, Mizerak, Cottingham, and even Hoppe. And then, playing for money at the Billiard Palacade, Town and Country Billiards, The Palace, and Cochran's all in San Francisco.

I still remember being a college student fish (my official tittle).

I'd walk into The Palace late at night and "Mike" would leap off the rail to play me. I was his customer, his sucker, his fish. We'd play 75 points of 14.1 for $25 and he' always win, though one night I came out of the gate with a 40 ball run and thought he was going to have a coronary but he eventually won nonetheless.

Many years later, when I moved to St. Louis and found that 1pocket was the only game in town, I donated to *everyone* for two solid years learning the game. Eventually, through the good graces of hard won experience and viewing countless 1pocket Accu-Stats tapes, I learned the game, improved, and gained an edge.

Those that do get "a guide," a "sherpa" to lead them up the mountain, should consider themselves blessed.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Poodle of Doom]

In The Great American Pool Hall Tradition, no one ever showed me anything.

I had to learn the hard way: practicing, competeing, a few books here and there like Mosconi, Lassiter, Mizerak, Cottingham, and even Hoppe. And then, playing for money at the Billiard Palacade, Town and Country Billiards, The Palace, and Cochran's all in San Francisco.

I still remember being a college student fish (my official tittle).

I'd walk into The Palace late at night and "Mike" would leap off the rail to play me. I was his customer, his sucker, his fish. We'd play 75 points of 14.1 for $25 and he' always win, though one night I came out of the gate with a 40 ball run and thought he was going to have a coronary but he eventually won nonetheless.

Many years later, when I moved to St. Louis and found that 1pocket was the only game in town, I donated to *everyone* for two solid years learning the game. Eventually, through the good graces of hard won experience and viewing countless 1pocket Accu-Stats tapes, I learned the game, improved, and gained an edge.

Those that do get "a guide," a "sherpa" to lead them up the mountain, should consider themselves blessed.

Lou Figueroa

Not everyone learned by tradition. Perhaps I was one of the lucky few. Thanks for sharing. Like I said above, I could put myself right there, and see myself standing in your shoes as it happened.

 

[grindz]

I can't say that it was any sort of lesson, but there was learning on my
Part by osmosis, ....... what I REALLY learned was how to, and how much
Fun the game could be .......

Playing snooker at the Comet Bowling alley, with Boyd, Eddie, George,
Tom, Big Jim, Dave, .... RIP to those who have gone first... you will always
Be remembered. A big hello to those that are left, if any of you are here on
AZB.

Td

 

[Poodle of Doom]

I can't say that it was any sort of lesson, but there was learning on my
Part by osmosis, ....... what I REALLY learned was how to, and how much
Fun the game could be .......

Playing snooker at the Comet Bowling alley, with Boyd, Eddie, George,
Tom, Big Jim, Dave, .... RIP to those who have gone first... you will always
Be remembered. A big hello to those that are left, if any of you are here on
AZB.

Td

It's always weird how things have a tendency to come full circle. A post on a forum about people who've influenced us, only to be brought back to the people who've influenced us here. Amazing.

How do you like snooker? I personally don't play, and wouldn't mind learning how some day. I like to watch a lot online. Have yet to get into it.

 

[sixpack]

I was very fortunate to have a whole bunch of people and players around to help me. I started playing in tournaments at a magical time and place - Denver in the late 80s - 2000 or so. There were so many tournaments and a statewide handicap system with a committee that all the room owners sat on and they met monthly discussed all the players who might need to be bumped up (or down).

It was as accurate and impartial system as I have found. The room owners like Alex Johnson (Dubbs Pub), Terry McFadden (Tournaments, Paradise Billiards), Lief Jensen (The Billiards Institute) and Cash Call from Table Steaks made it all happen. These guys all knew pool well and had a lot of experience judging players. To their credit they didn't put their finger on the scale.

Because there were so many tournaments there were about 200 people that were always around and we all got to be a community. Not necessarily friends but definitely a community. And we all practiced and helped each other get better. And that included some great players like Danny Medina, Melvin Sharpe, Davey Gomez, Bill Meacham, Bill Skinner, Mark Estes, Scott Smith, Chuey Rivera, Neal Morrison, Dave Hughes, Mike Helmer, James Hilzier, Butch Jones (ironman on AZB) and dozens just under the top tier. They used to fill 32 player fields for a race to 6 handicap 9-ball almost every night of the week. You could play a CBA handicapped tournament every night of the week and not have to go to the same bar/pool hall for a month. It was great.

Ed Padilla was a stake horse and gambler who loved to develop new players and he spent countless hours trying to get me to understand how to play a safety. And more importantly, why to play a safety.

There was also a host of players like Gary Richardson, Scott Pickert, Steve Bokros, Chris Onesky, Steve Chan, Rich Montoya, Leroy Garcia, Richard Chan, Chris Hinchey, CQ, Bob Dalton, Chad Johnson, Doug Jones, Steve Jones, Chad Johnson, Dennis Dreiling, Alex Kanipilly, Pete Mercaldi, Melody Biggs, Kurt Parker, Larry Blazer, Sharon Blazer, Don Ferguson, Ray Selby and dozens and dozens I can't remember off the top of my head. We all competed against each other and made each other better.

That was the best pool scene I've ever been around. It was special. Wichita, KS was probably second and again it was because of the room owners - Terry Young and Paul Wiggins (sp?) teamed up to have some good action on the south side of town on Hydraulic. Paul's place was great. They had mini-tournaments every single night and always ways to get in action. Also leagues virtually every night. Junior Brown, Bob Owen, Gabe Owen and Coy Lee were some of the better players that I remember. Always friendly and willing to help or show you a shot.

Through Chris Onesky I ended up playing golf and sharing a golf cart with David Matlock and then ran into him at several tournaments. He is a helluva nice guy and has a system for everything. Always friendly and willing to teach and show me stuff.

Phoenix had a great pool scene as well. I went to Kolby's a lot and played in the weekly tournament a few times when I was visiting friends. I would have liked to hit some of the bar tournaments around there but never really had the chance. I was at Kolby's with friends and found out my grandma died. I didn't want to party or be social anymore so I got in action with Preacher Ronn. It was great. Played for probably three hours and didn't say 4 words to each other. But the pool was intense. I think he beat me for $100. Worth every penny, best preaching I've ever heard.

When I started playing one pocket Ken Holmberg and Morris Foster here in California helped me figure out which hole to shoot at. I don't think their advice took though. I still haven't got that figured out too well.

 

[Poodle of Doom]

I was very fortunate to have a whole bunch of people and players around to help me. I started playing in tournaments at a magical time and place - Denver in the late 80s - 2000 or so. There were so many tournaments and a statewide handicap system with a committee that all the room owners sat on and they met monthly discussed all the players who might need to be bumped up (or down).

It was as accurate and impartial system as I have found. The room owners like Alex Johnson (Dubbs Pub), Terry McFadden (Tournaments, Paradise Billiards), Lief Jensen (The Billiards Institute) and Cash Call from Table Steaks made it all happen. These guys all knew pool well and had a lot of experience judging players. To their credit they didn't put their finger on the scale.

Because there were so many tournaments there were about 200 people that were always around and we all got to be a community. Not necessarily friends but definitely a community. And we all practiced and helped each other get better. And that included some great players like Danny Medina, Melvin Sharpe, Davey Gomez, Bill Meacham, Bill Skinner, Mark Estes, Scott Smith, Chuey Rivera, Neal Morrison, Dave Hughes, Mike Helmer, James Hilzier, Butch Jones (ironman on AZB) and dozens just under the top tier. They used to fill 32 player fields for a race to 6 handicap 9-ball almost every night of the week. You could play a CBA handicapped tournament every night of the week and not have to go to the same bar/pool hall for a month. It was great.

Ed Padilla was a stake horse and gambler who loved to develop new players and he spent countless hours trying to get me to understand how to play a safety. And more importantly, why to play a safety.

There was also a host of players like Gary Richardson, Scott Pickert, Steve Bokros, Chris Onesky, Steve Chan, Rich Montoya, Leroy Garcia, Richard Chan, Chris Hinchey, CQ, Bob Dalton, Chad Johnson, Doug Jones, Steve Jones, Chad Johnson, Dennis Dreiling, Alex Kanipilly, Pete Mercaldi, Melody Biggs, Kurt Parker, Larry Blazer, Sharon Blazer, Don Ferguson, Ray Selby and dozens and dozens I can't remember off the top of my head. We all competed against each other and made each other better.

That was the best pool scene I've ever been around. It was special. Wichita, KS was probably second and again it was because of the room owners - Terry Young and Paul Wiggins (sp?) teamed up to have some good action on the south side of town on Hydraulic. Paul's place was great. They had mini-tournaments every single night and always ways to get in action. Also leagues virtually every night. Junior Brown, Bob Owen, Gabe Owen and Coy Lee were some of the better players that I remember. Always friendly and willing to help or show you a shot.

Through Chris Onesky I ended up playing golf and sharing a golf cart with David Matlock and then ran into him at several tournaments. He is a helluva nice guy and has a system for everything. Always friendly and willing to teach and show me stuff.

Phoenix had a great pool scene as well. I went to Kolby's a lot and played in the weekly tournament a few times when I was visiting friends. I would have liked to hit some of the bar tournaments around there but never really had the chance. I was at Kolby's with friends and found out my grandma died. I didn't want to party or be social anymore so I got in action with Preacher Ronn. It was great. Played for probably three hours and didn't say 4 words to each other. But the pool was intense. I think he beat me for $100. Worth every penny, best preaching I've ever heard.

When I started playing one pocket Ken Holmberg and Morris Foster here in California helped me figure out which hole to shoot at. I don't think their advice took though. I still haven't got that figured out too well.

Awesome stories. Can't imagine playing for th a long, and only saying four words.