Verify the 526 run size table.
- Thread starter cueman
- Start date
I said it in another thread yesterday but I suppose it bears saying once again today in this thread. Circa 1977 or so ( memory fails on specific dates from 40+ yrs ago ), Russ Maddox, who was a regular, daily, in our room, for at least 15 years, told me, personally, face to face, the table Mosconi ran those balls on was, quoting Russ, "An 'oversized' 8 foot table." I do not recall him ever saying it was a Brunswick or any other brand table, though he might have and I simply don't remember. But I am one THOUSAND percent certain he said it was 8' and "oversized". Now, that said, whether it really WAS an oversized 8'? Anyone's guess is as good as mine. But that is what Russ told me.
Yup. I heard him say it too. And for an old dude Russ could still run some balls.
I have always heard 4 racks of rotation by Effie-not 5. Where did you see 5?
Willie Mosconi, straight pool, 526 balls on an 8-foot table on March 20,
1954 in Springfield, OH (the official record, with 35 witness signatures)
Still doesn't answer question.. Full size eight footer, or home 44" X 88"
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I believe you are mistaken on both points there.
I didn't say anything about the pocket size. It was an over-sized 8' table though (46" x 92"). That was the most common size table in Midwestern poolrooms during that era. I knew Russ Maddox and George Rood quite well, growing up in Dayton. Russ was one of the premier hustlers I ever met. He could run 50 or 60 balls at Straight Pool and played equally good 9-Ball and One Pocket, at all times claiming himself to be an "amateur." He was pretty good with a deck of cards too, teaching me the ins and outs of cheating at Gin Rummy. Russ had that gift of gab and could sell ice cream to the Eskimos.
On the other hand George was a straight arrow, working as a dog breeder and judge in dog shows. He never hustled anybody as far as I know. He just took on all comers and played for the stakes they asked for. Once you started he wouldn't raise the bet either. If he got you stuck, he kept you stuck until you quit. I watched him beat more than one road man for over twenty games of 9-Ball at 20 a game. He would have them steaming too. He didn't say much, just kept running out and letting you rack the balls. He turned everyone into a rack boy!
'P.S. I visited East High Billiards in Springfield twice in the early 60's, long after Mosconi had made his run.
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I think there's a guy who claims to have the original ax that George Washington cut down the cherry tree with.
Of course, the handle's been replaced twice, and the head, three times...
All the best,
WW
Yep, that's me. I have yet to meet anyone else with the same name. Even Helfert is not a common last name.
I didn't say anything about the pocket size. It was an over-sized 8' table though (46" x 92"). That was the most common size table in Midwestern poolrooms during that era. I knew Russ Maddox and George Rood quite well, growing up in Dayton. Russ was one of the premier hustlers I ever met. He could run 50 or 60 balls at Straight Pool and played equally good 9-Ball and One Pocket, at all times claiming himself to be an "amateur." He was pretty good with a deck of cards too, teaching me the ins and outs of cheating at Gin Rummy. Russ had that gift of gab and could sell ice cream to the Eskimos.
On the other hand George was a straight arrow, working as a dog breeder and judge in dog shows. He never hustled anybody as far as I know. He just took on all comers and played for the stakes they asked for. Once you started he wouldn't raise the bet either. If he got you stuck, he kept you stuck until you quit. I watched him beat more than one road man for over twenty games of 9-Ball at 20 a game. He would have them steaming too. He didn't say much, just kept running out and letting you rack the balls. He turned everyone into a rack boy!
P.S. I visited East High Billiards in Springfield twice in the early 60's, long after Mosconi had made his run.
I was lucky enough to meet George at the Executive West and speak with him for a while. I had no idea who he was before that day but he was quite personable and i could tell he was not the average pool gambler. In the following years i read a few articles about him. From what i understand, he never went on the road but as you said, he played all comers in his own room. He is in my top 10 list of the coolest people i have ever met-topped by Jack Dempsey and John Kennedy.
My #1 was Buzz Aldrin. For some reason I blurted out, "You went to the Moon!" and he calmly responded, "And I got back too!"
I've met many movie and TV stars including Warren Beatty, John Malkovich, Goldie Hawn, James Coburn, Paul Newman, Madonna, Telly Savalas, Don Johnson, Tobey Maguire, John Stamos and James Woods, but I'm not that impressed with any of them. I was once in the same room (at a Hollywood party) with Elvis, but he was surrounded, mostly by women, and I never got close enough to talk to him. He did have an aura about him. Even from a distance he radiated Charisma.
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I met George at Airway Billiards in Dayton.
Gail's mother was going through the slow horrible late stages of Alzheimers and we were traveling there often. I spent time with George and Steve "Cookie Monster" Cook at Airways. George was an interesting guy to talk to, though my first time at Airway, when I was looking for a game, he steered be to a guy I could "spar with" called Jason Miller.
Lou Figueroa
Ahahaha-Did Jason put on the lemon or play all out from the beginning?
There was, according to R.A. Dyer, a referee for Mosconi's run that night, in addition to the guy racking, Clarence Newman -- his name was Art Miller.
Lou Figueroa
Oh, no -- he smoked me.
It was kinda funny. We're playing and some guy, a cue mechanic of some sort, comes into the pool room walks over to our table and hands Jason a shaft. There's some talk about whatever work he's done and Jason threads the shaft onto his cue, mid-match, chalks it up, and *slices* a ball sitting on the end rail into his hole. It then dawned on me that, though I didn't know who I was playing at the time, I was a dead duck.
Lou Figueroa
Honestly, I don't really care what the table size was. Has it been beaten on ANY sized table??? Any sized pockets??? Pick a table with the dimensions you think easiest to beat the record on...then give it a whirl. Pick your pocket size, pick your table height, pick your length and width. I really do not care about all the particulars, the man walked in, laid down 526 and walked out. Even under ideal conditions with ideal table setup it will be almost impossible to break the record. But give it your best and I wish anyone who attempts it luck.
Well, Russ was a piece of work in some ways but when it came to pool ( and a lot of other things as well ), he generally knew what the frick he was talking about. Add to that, he DID own that pool room with George Rood ( and even though Russ claimed it was when Mosconi made the run, it's been confirmed he took ownership years later ) so if anyone should know what kind of table that record was run on, it would've been Russ. So, it's always been good enough for me. :shrug: :yeah: