The single most overlooked part of game play: kicking

[jrctherake]

In hindsight, I think I should have not used the word "overlooked".

instead, I should have said,:

"people are aware of the need to kick well but, few people do anything about it".

It like in bodybuilding, everyone works on chest and arms but, few concentrate on squats and deadlifts.

Just because one knows doesn't mean they will do anything about it.

Sure, some will never be great kickers and will always do good to just "hit the ball" but, I truly believe that most can be very strong kickers if they would only put forth the effort.

Jeff

 

[KRJ]

This for sure..... Why would anybody risk hitting the wrong side of the OB, or missing it with a 2/3 railer, when you can jump it ?

I love kicks.
I hate jump cues.:angry: Take the training wheels off. Use your shooter.

I wonder what guys like Willie would say: :shrug:

Yeah, I think jump cues suck. And yes, I have one. But, I can't remember the last time I even used it in a match... over a year ago at least. Plus, i do hate the marks it leaves, balls flying off the table, and having some guy locked up only to have him jump, hit it so bad but still make the bare minimum contact and then leave me bad... love it I tell you

 

[evergruven]

I admire the skill required to jump a ball
but if a ball is obstructing *my* shot
heigh ho, heigh ho, it's off the rails I go
folks do seem to prefer one way or another
as if each technique represented some pool philosophy
in that way, I kind of understand why kicking appears to be neglected

 

[buckshotshoey]

Yeah, I think jump cues suck. And yes, I have one. But, I can't remember the last time I even used it in a match... over a year ago at least. Plus, i do hate the marks it leaves, balls flying off the table, and having some guy locked up only to have him jump, hit it so bad but still make the bare minimum contact and then leave me bad... love it I tell you

I am fairly proficient at kicking.... one and two rail kicks. But I also make use of a jump cue.

Most of the time I play the percentages. If the percentage of getting a hit is larger by kicking, I do it. If it's a higher percentage jumping, I do it. If the kick and the jump are equal percentage, I usually kick.

BUT.... if the percentage of kicking and jumping are equal, and I have a good chance of making the ball, I'll jump the damn thing. Now that depends on where the object ball is. If it's near a rail, and I can go for a rail first shot, I'll kick every time if the cue ball path is open. If the OB is more then 3 or 4 inches away from the rail, the percentage favors the jump shot.

If I am not allowed to jump, and a kick is unavailable, I purposely foul by tying up the opponent's balls. Boy! That pisses some people off more then pulling out the jump cue! I have experienced that first hand! Had a guy try to call a sportsmanship violation on me for that. If course it wasnt. But it got him so worked up, I ended up winning a match he should have won.

All that said, I am more accomplished at kicking. But I have practiced kicking more. I think BOTH should be practiced. Like it or not, they are both part of the game.

 

[alstl]

The younger players aren't as good as the older guys because they rely on the jump cue. One exception is Shane Van Boening. His kicking is high level.

I disagree it's the most overlooked part of the game. The mechanical bridge is the most overlooked. I've seen some big matches lost when a player stretched out over the table with an 18" bridge because he didn't want to use the mechanical bridge. The reason they don't use it is because when they practice they don't take the time to reach down and get the bridge from under the table.

 

[buckshotshoey]

The younger players aren't as good as the older guys because they rely on the jump cue. One exception is Shane Van Boening. His kicking is high level.

I disagree it's the most overlooked part of the game. The mechanical bridge is the most overlooked. I've seen some big matches lost when a player stretched out over the table with an 18" bridge because he didn't want to use the mechanical bridge. The reason they don't use it is because when they practice they don't take the time to reach down and get the bridge from under the table.

I went in a different direction. I learned to shoot left handed. I'm to the point now where I'm just about as accurate left-handed as right-handed. My only big flaw shooting left-handed is speed control. Being able to shoot both hands is a huge Advantage at the pool table. There is only one spot at Each corner pocket where I can't reach with either hand. Then I have to resort to the Moosehead.

 

[jrctherake]

Angle in angle out to a point works well with me. Rarely do you get a pathway
that is perfect anyway so you're having to do something to the cue ball in many cases.
Its estimation. I hit more balls using the estimation with spin than I would have
predicted when I first started playing. Knowing your 3 rails paths and being able to
know how to get on one and diverge from it is good. Practicing two rail kicks into a point
is good but feel from angle in angle out estimation is more useful to me.

Going by feel only is IMO, the most unreliable way to kick but, if one gets to be accurate with feel, they will be all the more accurate if they tie their feel game to a system.

To me, feel and systems go hand in hand.

I believe that feel should be learned first and then coupled with as many systems as possible.

Jeff

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I believe that feel should be learned first and then coupled with as many systems as possible.

I think they should be learned together - to see how they affect each other. Systems are the "rules" and reality is the "exceptions" to those rules. I think the "exceptions" can be learned more quickly and accurately with the "rules" as their guide.

pj
chgo

 

[HawaiianEye]

kicking isn't overlooked, just like jumping isn't overlooked. jump cues have been around a longtime now, theyre part of the game, get used to it. crybabies crying about jumping, the fuch do I wanna kick 5 rails for if I can jump the ball. got a cheap jump cue, works wonders. sometimes a kick is more effective, nobody here is Efren, so the best you can hope for is hitting and try to get lucky.

IMO, jump cues should be banned in tournaments.

If you want to use a jump cue playing with your buddies, that is up to you.

Why can't we just get those little Lego ramps and make it like Putt Putt golf and send the ball over the ramp?

Jump cues are BS pool. If you can jump it with your regular cue, bring it on.

 

[evergruven]

Going by feel only is IMO, the most unreliable way to kick but, if one gets to be accurate with feel, they will be all the more accurate if they tie their feel game to a system.

To me, feel and systems go hand in hand.

I believe that feel should be learned first and then coupled with as many systems as possible.

Jeff

I think they should be learned together - to see how they affect each other. Systems are the "rules" and reality is the "exceptions" to those rules. I think the "exceptions" can be learned more quickly and accurately with the "rules" as their guide.

pj
chgo

this all works
it doesn't have to be feel *or* systems
really the two overlap quite a bit
feel is always there, instinct
systems can be more easily learned/taught
because they're explainable
even if we can't readily say why
feel is comprised of systems
and when feel is effective
I guess it's a good one(s) ^_^

 

[jrctherake]

I think they should be learned together - to see how they affect each other. Systems are the "rules" and reality is the "exceptions" to those rules. I think the "exceptions" can be learned more quickly and accurately with the "rules" as their guide.

pj
chgo

Good point.

In the end, if people would start putting more emphasis on kicking by feel/systems either way, their levels of play would jump considerably.

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

this all works
it doesn't have to be feel *or* systems
really the two overlap quite a bit
feel is always there, instinct
systems can be more easily learned/taught
because they're explainable
even if we can't readily say why
feel is comprised of systems
and when feel is effective
I guess it's a good one(s) ^_^

I was told many years ago:

"Find what works and go from there but, never take the, "if it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality, because that is settling and not striving for improvement"

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

IMO, jump cues should be banned in tournaments.

If you want to use a jump cue playing with your buddies, that is up to you.

Why can't we just get those little Lego ramps and make it like Putt Putt golf and send the ball over the ramp?

Jump cues are BS pool. If you can jump it with your regular cue, bring it on.

I too would like to see jump cues banned in all tournament play. I doubt that will ever happen but, oh my, if they did it would be mayhem for many.

When playing a private match, I always ask my opponent (before starting the match) to not use jump cues. Sometimes they agree, most of the time they do not agree.

When that is brought up, they usually think, "ok, this guy can't jump balls efficiently" so, they roll out to a jump shot....they are usually disappointed and soon realize it was a mistake.

Jeff

 

[jrctherake]

The younger players aren't as good as the older guys because they rely on the jump cue. One exception is Shane Van Boening. His kicking is high level.

I disagree it's the most overlooked part of the game. The mechanical bridge is the most overlooked. I've seen some big matches lost when a player stretched out over the table with an 18" bridge because he didn't want to use the mechanical bridge. The reason they don't use it is because when they practice they don't take the time to reach down and get the bridge from under the table.

Yes sir, the bridge is almost never used in drills by most and especially mid to lower level amateurs.

IMO, the older generation, as you said, are more out to kick and I believe they are more out to use the bridge as well.

Jeff

 

[HawaiianEye]

I too would like to see jump cues banned in all tournament play. I doubt that will ever happen but, oh my, if they did it would be mayhem for many.

When playing a private match, I always ask my opponent (before starting the match) to not use jump cues. Sometimes they agree, most of the time they do not agree.

When that is brought up, they usually think, "ok, this guy can't jump balls efficiently" so, they roll out to a jump shot....they are usually disappointed and soon realize it was a mistake.

Jeff

I don't play private matches with anybody who insists on using jump cues, even if I can beat them.

I tell them to go find somebody else to play.

Just like I won't play with anyone who insists on climbing on the table, even though it may benefit me, too.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I think the bridge should be banned in tournament play. It's a crutch. It's an artificial aid that takes the place of skill. Take off the training wheels and learn to shoot left (opposite) hand. If you would take the time to practice opposite hand, you wouldn't need a bridge.

Any of this sound familiar?

 

[HawaiianEye]

I think the bridge should be banned in tournament play. It's a crutch. It's an artificial aid that takes the place of skill. Take off the training wheels and learn to shoot left (opposite) hand. If you would take the time to practice opposite hand, you wouldn't need a bridge.

Any of this sound familiar?

I think they should ban chalk. If you learn the angles and can play center ball, you shouldn't need chalk.

I think you should call every shot...pocketing and safeties.

I think you should have to drink beer at a steady pace while you are playing.

I think tournaments should run 24 hours a day and you play until you win, lose, or fall out.

 

[jrctherake]

I think the bridge should be banned in tournament play. It's a crutch. It's an artificial aid that takes the place of skill. Take off the training wheels and learn to shoot left (opposite) hand. If you would take the time to practice opposite hand, you wouldn't need a bridge.

Any of this sound familiar?

I can't even find my left hand (right handed). If not for extensions and a bridge, I would be dead in the water.

I try ever now and then to shoot off handed. It's truly the hardest thing I've ever experienced in pool.

Jeff

 

[buckshotshoey]

I think they should ban chalk. If you learn the angles and can play center ball, you shouldn't need chalk.

I think you should call every shot...pocketing and safeties.

I think you should have to drink beer at a steady pace while you are playing.

I think tournaments should run 24 hours a day and you play until you win, lose, or fall out.

Lol. Yeah I get it. I am no means sayi g I want to ban bridges. Just making a point.

Some tournaments allow jump cues, some do not. I play in both scenarios. I enjoy both.

In private play, if you dont want jump cues used, I'll oblige. But I would ask that you also play a set using jump cues in return.

Last Wed I was faced with a jump, or a curve shot going rail first. Had to slightly masse around an blocker. I chose the kick and made it.

Your way or my way isnt the right way. Just a different way.

 

[7stud]

i think you should have to drink beer at a steady pace while you are playing.