Cue alignment update - visual perception error/distortion of the line of aim

Z

z0nt0n3r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i have an update from my 'accurate cue placement thread',this is a very probable reason for not being able to place the cue bang on the line of aim consistently.
as i'm getting down on the shot,when it LOOKS like the cue is dropping down directly over the line of aim,in reality the cue is heading to the left of the line and when i'm down on the shot,i find out that the cue is across the line,to my left.

i've tried to turn the cue more to the right of the line as i'm going down as a compensation but it doesn't really work.

does anybody else have similar distortions/visual perception issues?how should i go about fixing this?
 
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All these threads are getting confusing. :)
I know I stated that it's all the joints involved and standing to the side of the stick that absolutely require pivoting and angular decent. Precisely why I recommend placing the stick first; at least tip first and resting the backhand on the table if possible and then dropping in on the stick to complete the routine.
 
z0nt0n3r said:
...when it LOOKS like the cue is dropping down directly over the line of aim,in reality the cue is heading to the left of the line

...how should i go about fixing this?
Click to expand...
Move your head a little to the right. That should make you move the stick to the right to look “straight” (because of parallax).

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Move your head a little to the right. That should make you move the stick to the right to look “straight” (because of parallax).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
yes i also think this is the culprit. when i'm in the standing position and i move my head more to my right and drop down, sometimes it looks like i'm heading to the right of the line but in reality i often end up online. but i find it difficult to get down on the shot on that exact same way, so after a couple of shots, i lose my alignment once again and it takes me a while to find it again.sometimes i overdo the lean of the head to the right and the cue is heading to the right of the line on the way down and other times i do the opposite and don't lean enough on the way down, so the middle of my chin or right eye ends up on the cue.

also i had a center ball issue that i mentioned on this forum a year ago,center ball looked like a hair of right spin for me and that goes against the theory that if you see center ball as right spin, then you are right eye dominant and need to move your head more to your left. for me it's the opposite, i need to move my head more to my right because i'm left eye dominant for playing pool (opposite-eye dominant). maybe i was over-compensating because the cue was heading more to the left, i made the habit of turning the cue more to my right on the way down to correct this which causes the cue to end up aiming more to the right of center,but who knows, the human eyes are very weird.
 
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i posted this in a thread in the ask the instructor forum
when you line up for the shot
put the cue stick up close to parallel ( not close to your face)to your face
you should now see 2 cue sticks and keep the image BETWEEN the two imaginary sticks
DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD AND COME STRAIGHT DOWN ON THAT LINE
that should keep you on your visual center
.......
in other word
if the stick is pointed up near your face and you look past it at the cue ball object ball shot line
you will see 2 cue sticks
keep the shot line between the 2 perceived sticks
you head is then in the correct vision center place
jmho
 
bbb said:
i posted this in a thread in the ask the instructor forum
when you line up for the shot
put the cue stick up close to parallel ( not close to your face)to your face
you should now see 2 cue sticks and keep the image BETWEEN the two imaginary sticks
DO NOT MOVE YOUR HEAD AND COME STRAIGHT DOWN ON THAT LINE
that should keep you on your visual center
.......
in other word
if the stick is pointed up near your face and you look past it at the cue ball object ball shot line
you will see 2 cue sticks
keep the shot line between the 2 perceived sticks
you head is then in the correct vision center place
jmho
Click to expand...
i know what you mean and have tried this in practice, but i only tried it by lining up the middle of my face over the shot line when standing which isn't my vision centre. next time i will try this technique by lining up my left over the shot and see if it works.

thanks for advice.
 
Even if you are left eye dominant
You vision center isnt under you left eye
Unless you are shooting a rifle and closing right eye
The stick will probably be between the center of your nose and your left pupil
What i described above will put your head in the correct place with out you forcing anything
Try it and let us know
Jmho
 
but how do you know what is my degree of eye dominance?don't most players have a different degree?

i will try it and let you all know in about a month because where i live the pool halls are closed once again due to covid-19
 
z0nt0n3r said:
but how do you know what is my degree of eye dominance?don't most players have a different degree?

i will try it and let you all know in about a month because where i live the pool halls are closed once again due to covid-19
Click to expand...
i dont know
but when you look thru the "2 cues" you are lined up to the degree of your eye dominance.
its like (but not exactly) when you make a circle with your hand and look thru it and bring it to your face
check out 2:20 of this video
 

zOnton3r,

This is a shot for me that I think is similar to what you are talking about. Whenever I sight the shot and fire I swear I am hitting it right along the line to make it. But by the time the CB gets to the target (the 3B) it is off to the left just a hair and I overcut the shot. I always have to compensate for this.

r/DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:

zOnton3r,

This is a shot for me that I think is similar to what you are talking about. Whenever I sight the shot and fire I swear I am hitting it right along the line to make it. But by the time the CB gets to the target (the 3B) it is off to the left just a hair and I overcut the shot. I always have to compensate for this.

r/DCP
Click to expand...
yes, for me if i place the cue anywhere around my right eye, the cue is angled to the left and i tend to miss the shot to the right.if i place the cue too far towards my left eye, the cue is angled to the right and i tend to miss the shot to the left.i think the sweet spot for me is somewhere around under my left eye.

i think that finding exactly what degree of eye dominance you have is crucial because the correct head position allows you to place the cue bang on the line of aim, (assuming that you line up and get down on the shot correctly with that exact head position) .if your head alignment is off, you will always have to compensate and fiddle with your bridge hand when you're down in order to place the cue on the line.
 
bbb said:
Even if you are left eye dominant
You vision center isnt under you left eye
Click to expand...
Many good players play with the cue directly under their dominant eye, even cross dominant players.

bbb said:
Unless you are shooting a rifle and closing right eye
Click to expand...
I think strong eye dominance can be like that, with the brain essentially ignoring the image from the non-dominant eye. I can make my vision like that momentarily by consciously focusing on the image from that eye. I can even "unresolve" my brain-created single picture to see the two images separately side by side - the image from my dominant eye is closer to the shot line than the image from my non-dominant eye (as expected because of parallax).

pj
chgo
 
z0nt0n3r said:
yes, for me if i place the cue anywhere around my right eye, the cue is angled to the left and i tend to miss the shot to the right.if i place the cue too far towards my left eye, the cue is angled to the right and i tend to miss the shot to the left.i think the sweet spot for me is somewhere around under my left eye.

i think that finding exactly what degree of eye dominance you have is crucial because the correct head position allows you to place the cue bang on the line of aim, (assuming that you line up and get down on the shot correctly with that exact head position) .if your head alignment is off, you will always have to compensate and fiddle with your bridge hand when you're down in order to place the cue on the line.
Click to expand...
IMO, find a way to acquire a cheap laser as we discussed. I'm told you can get one that will do the trick for cheap but I haven't looked into that. The guessing and going around in circles ends when you have feedback to tell you where center ball is and what a straight alignment looks like. Once you work with it for awhile you will know what "correct" looks and feels like. The only other thing I can suggest is to pay attention to what the hit on the cue ball feels like and what kind of results you get with drills such as the cue ball up and back drill. If the hit feels solid and you can't miss a ball then you're most likely doing it right, or close enough.
 
Dan White said:
IMO, find a way to acquire a cheap laser as we discussed. I'm told you can get one that will do the trick for cheap but I haven't looked into that. The guessing and going around in circles ends when you have feedback to tell you where center ball is and what a straight alignment looks like. Once you work with it for awhile you will know what "correct" looks and feels like. The only other thing I can suggest is to pay attention to what the hit on the cue ball feels like and what kind of results you get with drills such as the cue ball up and back drill. If the hit feels solid and you can't miss a ball then you're most likely doing it right, or close enough.
Click to expand...
yes you're right it's guessing if you don't use a laser or some other tool and the guess work has made me change my mind more than once.
actually i actually have bought a cheap laser but can't use it now because the pool halls are closed in my area for a month due to covid. i don't know if i will find out anything if i set it up on a table in my home.

here is the laser that i bought :

also i'm wondering something else, you say that when your head alignment is online you can't miss a ball, but surely it can't be that easy?
because i think if that was the case then every player who has fixed his visual alignment could easily reach pro level, couldn't he?
 
just used the laser in my home and one thing i noticed that i also noticed on some of your shots in your laser stroke video is that when you place the cue on the laser line,if you look at the shaft from bridge to tip, the line looks like it drifts very slightly to one side, it doesn't look completely straight.
i don't know if it is because the cue isn't perfectly on the line by millimeter precision or it is some sort of optical illusion
 
Probably a combination of things not the least of which is, the shaft is milled and the taper also would interfere with alignment; perception and/or otherwise.
 
z0nt0n3r said:
yes you're right it's guessing if you don't use a laser or some other tool and the guess work has made me change my mind more than once.
actually i actually have bought a cheap laser but can't use it now because the pool halls are closed in my area for a month due to covid. i don't know if i will find out anything if i set it up on a table in my home.

here is the laser that i bought :

also i'm wondering something else, you say that when your head alignment is online you can't miss a ball, but surely it can't be that easy?
because i think if that was the case then every player who has fixed his visual alignment could easily reach pro level, couldn't he?
Click to expand...
I think it would work just fine on a table in your home. Do you have a cue ball and even one object ball you could also use?

About not missing a ball: what I mean is that if everything is working for you and the ball feels solid then you are probably on a good alignment and not swooping in, although of course this is not guaranteed. For me, I won't miss when I'm lining up center and stroking straight. I know you are not a beginner so figured you might experience the same thing. I probably should have worded things differently.
 
z0nt0n3r said:
just used the laser in my home and one thing i noticed that i also noticed on some of your shots in your laser stroke video is that when you place the cue on the laser line,if you look at the shaft from bridge to tip, the line looks like it drifts very slightly to one side, it doesn't look completely straight.
i don't know if it is because the cue isn't perfectly on the line by millimeter precision or it is some sort of optical illusion
Click to expand...
I'd have to look at the video but it might be that I was talking and not keeping the cue right online. I was holding the camera phone in one hand all the time as well. If your laser is not directly over the cue and there is a shaft taper that would explain why the line moves to the side of the shaft. With my laser the base is flat and it sits on a board (and the laser is self-leveling) so the laser line should be perfectly vertical. If your laser line is coming down at an angle other than that then you might have an issue. I also find that looking at the line from the tip to the grip hand gives more information than just from the tip to the bridge hand. Just make sure the laser light is blocked from getting into your eye for more than 2 seconds at a time, or at all ideally.
 
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Dan White said:
I'd have to look at the video but it might be that I was talking and not keeping the cue right online. I was holding the camera phone in one hand all the time as well. If your laser is not directly over the cue and there is a shaft taper that would explain why the line moves to the side of the shaft. With my laser the base is flat and it sits on a board so the laser line should be perfectly vertical. If your laser line is coming down at an angle other than that then you might have an issue. I also find that looking at the line from the tip to the grip hand gives more information than just from the tip to the bridge hand. Just make sure the laser light is blocked from getting into your eye for more than 2 seconds at a time, or at all ideally.
Click to expand...
Dan White said:
I think it would work just fine on a table in your home. Do you have a cue ball and even one object ball you could also use?

About not missing a ball: what I mean is that if everything is working for you and the ball feels solid then you are probably on a good alignment and not swooping in, although of course this is not guaranteed. For me, I won't miss when I'm lining up center and stroking straight. I know you are not a beginner so figured you might experience the same thing. I probably should have worded things differently.
Click to expand...
i don't have pool balls in my home, i only have a crystal ball which is almost the same size and shape as a pool ball, so maybe i can use it with the laser to locate center ball but i'm not sure if it's ideal.i will have to take the laser at a pool hall in order to do the other alignment tests that you are doing.

one other question, when you were doing the laser alignment tests, did you find that with the wrong head positions the cue was ending up slightly off the line and you had to make small bridge-back hand adjustments to get the cue online? and with the correct head position did you find that the cue was automatically ending up online without too many micro-adjustments?this is the only explanation i can think of about why you made the conclusion that a certain head position is better than the others and i'm coming to the same conclusion myself.i'm sorry if i have asked you the same question in the past, i just want to be sure.
 
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