I guess I am the "Get off my lawn!" guy....

poolpro2

poolpro2

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I started playing pool at the end of the real felt era. If you went 3 rails after a shot it meant you actually had a stroke. There were no jump cues, if you jumped, it was with your shooting cue. I don't remember break cues being a thing either. Where I played 7 footers did not exist. 8 footers were the norm and you went to a real pool hall (rare) to find a 9 footer.
Gambling was also the norm, on basically every game, even if it was small stakes or just a beer.
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong?
 
you missed balls that are more elastic and get cleaned and polished every day or after every use.
air conditioning that makes the cloth faster.
 
I appreciate your opinion. If they changed horeshoes so it was only 5 feet apart and widened the horeshoe, I guess that is the same?

The Indian and not the arrow is kind of my whole point. If you make it easy enough for a beginner to be as good as someone experienced?
 
Not intentionally stalking but I see I am answering your posts back to back! I don't know how to get to them but checking the Fargo rating for many players will quickly show you that the gaps are still there between players, they just aren't as wide. With faster and generally nicer equipment to play on, generally far better maintained, skill differences aren't nearly as obvious as they once were. I remember playing on five by tens, deep directional cloth, clay balls, and no air conditioning! It did take a manly stroke for many shots. I think that the new balls roll about twice as far as those old ones did. Never going to happen but I would love to see a return to five by tens, slower cushions, and slightly slower cloth. I like playing with good quality phenolic balls.

The better players still win most of the time and I am happy to see newcomers doing well. Age and cunning still beats youth and vigor, we just have to work a little harder today!

Hu
 
I have seen your posts for years and value your opinion. I thought the IPT was on the right track. I would not say real felt took a manly stroke, it took a true stroke. I just believe the game is being simplified too much by technology. Golf is often used by people as a simile. Even they do not allow some tech. We banned super short jump cues, that is about as far as I have seen technology limited. It used to take some time to master this game and now, not so much. I feel my years it took getting good has been diminished some. Just an opinion.
 
poolpro2 said:
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
Yes, you are wrong. The better player was winning in the olden days, the better player is winning today. The difference is that everybody is having more fun now when they play.
 
"Manly" was said a bit in fun, figured to get a rise out of one of the PC folks!

I remember going to an old pool hall just across the levee from the Mississippi River. Those old tens and clay balls were antiques then and with no AC there was a big fan in the wall that sucked in all that wet air off of the Mississippi. The place had that faint moldy muddy smell I often associate with stagnant ponds. The sticks were as big around as baseball bats and that deep wet cloth taught me in a hurry why they were needed! A few shots early on failed to reach a pocket for shooting too soft.

I have the same opinion that some of the things I put a lot of time and sweat in learning don't have the same value they once did. You don't need them anymore. Also, when I came back to pool after a long lay-off I wanted to try to learn to play pool "right" instead of the things I had learned mostly by trial and error. One of the things I bought was Li'l Joe Villalpando's first two DVD's. I thought they were great, however there was a little bit of anger too. For seventy bucks and a few months work somebody could have what it took me years to learn. Somehow it didn't seem quite fair.

For many reasons I don't have the same touch I once had on a pool table. A place near me got ahold of some old Valley tables from the mid-eighties including the old cloth in good shape. When I got on one of those it was hardly any time until I was kicking, banking, and playing shape like I had flashed back to that time. I had known in my head that when I had been at my peak it had been on different equipment, now it really sunk in at a gut level. The new equipment not only makes things easier for new players, it makes things comparatively harder for those that had played on the old equipment then taken a few decades off while changes were happening in equipment. Equipment alone wouldn't make me a great player but there is no doubt what I would like to play on if I had to bet the farm on the outcome.

We may be a bit grumpy with age but I figure we have paid our dues and have the right to be. Long live grumpy old men!(and women, especially those like Ann Margret and Sophia Loren)

Hu
 
poolpro2 said:
I started playing pool at the end of the real felt era. If you went 3 rails after a shot it meant you actually had a stroke. There were no jump cues, if you jumped, it was with your shooting cue. I don't remember break cues being a thing either. Where I played 7 footers did not exist. 8 footers were the norm and you went to a real pool hall (rare) to find a 9 footer.
Gambling was also the norm, on basically every game, even if it was small stakes or just a beer.
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong
Click to expand...

poolpro2 said:
In the old days of pool and slow cloth we would always talk about who had the best stroke or the most powerful stroke. I rarely hear conversations like this anymore. Jay
Click to expand...
 
I think that because of the playing conditions today it takes greater feel for the cue ball to gain correct position because of the greater speeds, but yes, once mastered, the game can be easier because of the speed of cloth and rails. One also has to master the multiple rail routes more efficiently.

However, much of this is offset by the tighter pockets that I see on these Diamond tables. My old BCA handbook from the 80s listed corner pocket specs as 4 7/8 to 5 1/8. Who remembers Gandy tables with the really big pockets- most of the "antique" Brunswick tables pre 1960s that I have played on had big pockets- the side pocket openings allowed cut shots from almost any angle.

Even GC1s in the 1960s resurgence mostly had 4 7/8 corners in pool halls- of course there was the house table near the front desk, but usually only one with tighter pockets. I still think it is a great game no matter what regarding equipment changes - I stay mostly old school anyhow.

Every sport has technology upgrades- there is some degree of acceptance required to stay " in the game" and there should also be some degree of adherence to whatever you believe retains the purity of the sport you enjoy- find an acceptable balance and relax and enjoy - no sense fighting what cannot be stopped. It's just like life itself today.
 
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I took about a 15 year layoff & just picked up the sport again ~ a year ago. IMO, it's the same old game. There were always 7 (and even 6) foot tables in bars & those are far easier to play on, but I don't find shaft technology has made much of a difference in my game. Felt changes the game, but you get used to what you have. My felt is slow and it's often difficult for me to replicate what I see in tutorials online, but they D/N have Simonis in a color that my wife likes. I still have fun.
 
Back in my day, you were lucky if you could get a ball to make it to a pocket once in ten tries! And the pool halls smelled like a wet dog with diarrhea! And you got arthritis from handling the cues the size of baseball bats! We used to say the only reason there were rails on the table was to keep the balls from rolling off the tables were so crooked! And we liked it, we liked it fine! If you could make a ball hit two cushions in a row you went out and bought a lottery ticket! Things were just better then, consarn it!
 
Once again, it seems to go back to what you came up on. If you grew up on eight and nine footers, then the seven footers are toys. (I am really surprised that the "oversized" cue balls on early barboxes did not kill pool.)

I like the improvements in cues, felt, and balls. The biggest improvement, however, is in rails. Time was "dead" rails were common as hen's teeth -- one had to learn which rails were dependable and which ones were not. Constant adjustment was required not just table to table, but rail to rail. We are not completely there yet, but from table to table one finds consistency in rails much more often now.
 
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Still have to learn to aim, bank, play position, etc. Game gas changed but as said above the better player still wins. BTW, i kinda miss the old slow cloth too. You could let your stroke out more often. On modern worsted cloth you do baby-stroke/tap a lot of balls. When 760 came out it was too fast imo, 860 is just right.
poolpro2 said:
I started playing pool at the end of the real felt era. If you went 3 rails after a shot it meant you actually had a stroke. There were no jump cues, if you jumped, it was with your shooting cue. I don't remember break cues being a thing either. Where I played 7 footers did not exist. 8 footers were the norm and you went to a real pool hall (rare) to find a 9 footer.
Gambling was also the norm, on basically every game, even if it was small stakes or just a beer.
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
 
poolpro2 said:
I started playing pool at the end of the real felt era. If you went 3 rails after a shot it meant you actually had a stroke. There were no jump cues, if you jumped, it was with your shooting cue. I don't remember break cues being a thing either. Where I played 7 footers did not exist. 8 footers were the norm and you went to a real pool hall (rare) to find a 9 footer.
Gambling was also the norm, on basically every game, even if it was small stakes or just a beer.
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...
REAL FELT? ...it was CHEAP CLOTH
Fast cloth doesn’t make the game easier. It makes more things POSSIBLE.

The famous Rack in Detroit, when Gil Elias owned it, had Granito cloth that was faster than 760 Simonis.....
...50 years ago.
Bakers on Tampa had some tables even faster than the Rack...late 60s.

The players that needed the 6-7-8 from a road player back then, still need the same spot.
 
Mick said:
Yes, you are wrong. The better player was winning in the olden days, the better player is winning today. The difference is that everybody is having more fun now when they play.
Click to expand...
Yup.

With modern equipment, I hit a golf ball further today than I did 40 years ago. I even score better. But the same guys still beat me...
 
Fast, worsted cloth has always been around. When Simonis got back into the US in mid/late 80's they made a BIG marketing push that pretty much made it the choice of most rooms/organizers. Gorina/Granito has been around as long as Simonis and makes very nice cloth.
 
poolpro2 said:
I started playing pool at the end of the real felt era. If you went 3 rails after a shot it meant you actually had a stroke. There were no jump cues, if you jumped, it was with your shooting cue. I don't remember break cues being a thing either. Where I played 7 footers did not exist. 8 footers were the norm and you went to a real pool hall (rare) to find a 9 footer.
Gambling was also the norm, on basically every game, even if it was small stakes or just a beer.
Now, someone who has played for two months, has a carbon fiber shaft, playing on 860 Simonis, on a 7 footer can tap balls around and run tables.
Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

When you have witnessed and participated in the evolution of something it is natural to fall into the "remember when" thought process. Kid's today have it so easy, when I was a kid we walked miles through the snow up hill (both ways) to get to school. I am late to the game as a regular player, so I only know the environment of the last few years. I was in the scuba industry from the 80's to the 2000's and saw that sport heavily evolve. Black rubber masks, low volume steel tanks with little to no buoyancy control, no extra safety equipment, and time calculations were done on old school charts. You had to work harder to enjoy the Undersea World of Jacque Cousteau than today. We had the same war stories to tell the kids in their new fancy equipment and dive computers. The base level skill and learning was there, but the new stuff made it easier for people to get there. The goal of diving is enjoying the dive, which could be diminished by the distraction of less efficient equipment.

I think the today's game of pool still has the basic challenge and need for skill, just the challenge of overcoming lesser materials and equipment has been reduced. It is great to reminisce about pioneering the sport, but would you rather still play on the tables of old or today's?
 
Irving Crane was complaining in 1979 that the game was too easy because in his day they played on ten foot tables, with small pockets, an oval ivory cue ball, and clay object balls that could barely roll downhill. And today people sometimes play sober!

vault.si.com

The Frail Gray Man with the Strong Pool Cue

Irving Crane, who is one of the best straight pocket billiards players in the world, could be the now slightly aged prototype of the original 97-pound
vault.si.com vault.si.com
 
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