question for veteran cuemakers on az.
- Thread starter mrkdenton
- Start date
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Disclaimer.....the following is based on personal opinion only.......................
When your shop is putting out approx 300 cues a year you are no longer considered a "custom" cue builder but instead are in the same ranks as a few of the larger production type companies. Unless you have a group of employees working on a weekly basis to achieve that number (300 cues), 2 or even 3 people will rapidly burn out pumping out "quality" finished product in those numbers. Quality control will eventually take a hit and sales to support those numbers will have payroll difficult to make. Quality shaft wood alone, not to mention quality one of a kind pieces of exotic wood, has become more and more difficult to source and just putting any good looking piece of maple or colored wood on a cue will evenly make your product just blend in with a large group of others and cause a business stagnation.
I'm sure you're a great business person and understand the importance of a quality final product in order to achieve the mark up you desire to make your business profitable. At the numbers you are producing for the type of cue you are supplying to the end user take a quick peek and figure out if all the effort is worth the final bottom line.
Only knowing exactly what your overhead is (one very important detail) will allow you to determine the profit percentage you seek in order to make it a profitable business.
Unfortunately, for the type of cue you suggest you've completed last month, they are basically a dime a dozen type of cue. You're in a tough market for that style of player cue. Not that you can't sell that style of cue but the profit margin is going to be tough to uphold and make it worth all the time, effort and material to continue basically not working for free or for "the love of building cues."
I would suggest to focus more on special, one of a kind style of cues with only the very best woods you can cull thru and find to give you a finished product with a different appeal. However, even this market today is a very difficult and different animal that only took around 20-25 years of hard work and a plethora of setbacks over that time period to make it profitable. Your end product is the most important item in the grand scheme of things and will determine the end result of the success or failure of your business.
Determination, drive, outside support and a little luck will help. I've owned several different businesses throughout my life and can honestly say building pool cues for a profit has been the most challenging however the most rewarding in an attempt to keep the bottom line in the black.
Answering your initial question of "how" is a difficult one and I don't believe there is one single answer but a table full of possible answers.
One story about the name you wish to call your cues takes me back to my beginning days. My original idea was to name my business Precision Cue Design. It was without a shadow of a doubt( in my mind) the perfect name for everything my end product was going to stand for.
Only after deciding on the that name and having cards and banners made did I find out there was a Searing Precision Cues already out there. Trademarked or not didn't matter to me. It was too close of a match to continue using and immediately knew I had to change. Give the man before you the respect they deserve and change the name of your company to something different. Doesn't matter if it's an exact match or not. Even using my last name which I knew without a shadow of a doubt was not being used for any businesses in the United States, I still ran into some conflict and confusion with some thinking I was a different person and running a business out of FL. Evidently some people's reading comprehension may be a little skewed every now and then.
When your shop is putting out approx 300 cues a year you are no longer considered a "custom" cue builder but instead are in the same ranks as a few of the larger production type companies. Unless you have a group of employees working on a weekly basis to achieve that number (300 cues), 2 or even 3 people will rapidly burn out pumping out "quality" finished product in those numbers. Quality control will eventually take a hit and sales to support those numbers will have payroll difficult to make. Quality shaft wood alone, not to mention quality one of a kind pieces of exotic wood, has become more and more difficult to source and just putting any good looking piece of maple or colored wood on a cue will evenly make your product just blend in with a large group of others and cause a business stagnation.
I'm sure you're a great business person and understand the importance of a quality final product in order to achieve the mark up you desire to make your business profitable. At the numbers you are producing for the type of cue you are supplying to the end user take a quick peek and figure out if all the effort is worth the final bottom line.
Only knowing exactly what your overhead is (one very important detail) will allow you to determine the profit percentage you seek in order to make it a profitable business.
Unfortunately, for the type of cue you suggest you've completed last month, they are basically a dime a dozen type of cue. You're in a tough market for that style of player cue. Not that you can't sell that style of cue but the profit margin is going to be tough to uphold and make it worth all the time, effort and material to continue basically not working for free or for "the love of building cues."
I would suggest to focus more on special, one of a kind style of cues with only the very best woods you can cull thru and find to give you a finished product with a different appeal. However, even this market today is a very difficult and different animal that only took around 20-25 years of hard work and a plethora of setbacks over that time period to make it profitable. Your end product is the most important item in the grand scheme of things and will determine the end result of the success or failure of your business.
Determination, drive, outside support and a little luck will help. I've owned several different businesses throughout my life and can honestly say building pool cues for a profit has been the most challenging however the most rewarding in an attempt to keep the bottom line in the black.
Answering your initial question of "how" is a difficult one and I don't believe there is one single answer but a table full of possible answers.
One story about the name you wish to call your cues takes me back to my beginning days. My original idea was to name my business Precision Cue Design. It was without a shadow of a doubt( in my mind) the perfect name for everything my end product was going to stand for.
Only after deciding on the that name and having cards and banners made did I find out there was a Searing Precision Cues already out there. Trademarked or not didn't matter to me. It was too close of a match to continue using and immediately knew I had to change. Give the man before you the respect they deserve and change the name of your company to something different. Doesn't matter if it's an exact match or not. Even using my last name which I knew without a shadow of a doubt was not being used for any businesses in the United States, I still ran into some conflict and confusion with some thinking I was a different person and running a business out of FL. Evidently some people's reading comprehension may be a little skewed every now and then.
thanks for the reply yes i have lmao
i was just telling my wife about when u just got started and i wanted to buy one of your first cues a few years ago to support a new and up and coming cue maker do u remember the merry widow i bought from u :} your advice is exactly what i plan on trying to do with making a catalog and doing a line of cues i will be posting progress pics of these next 25 cues for this month so hopefully everyone will see the quality that i hope is there lol i really appreciate your response thanks
your advice makes total sense to me i really appreciate you spending the time to respond and give me some expertise advice
luckily i bought steve kleins shop of wood out a few years ago and with the shaft stock i already had i now have over 1100 shafts that have been processed slowly over 11 years time and over 800 of them had a small trim pass on them for 10 years and are down to 550 and 540mm
i also have 400 handles processed and forearms over the last 3 years so i figured i would buy like a 100 handles every time i make a batch of 25 cues per month so at the end of the first 12 months i will use approx 300 handles of my 400 i have but i will have bought 1200 handles during the same year
if i did that for even a 5 year period i would have over 4500 handles thru the river of wood sort to speak
above and beyond what im using
luckily i have a ton of ebony wood in different stages so im definately looking for more wood
so i definately understand what your saying about running out of wood hopefully i can find some good deals on it
the 25 cues i diid to get started were just some one piece bar cues and 17 full splice blanks i had bought from someone on azbilliards
i just did those to get a solid batch of cues out the door hopefully to get some operating cash flow going
so i can start the next 25 from scratch
and definately i understand what your saying about giving the previous guy his due
that built cues im gonna do some research there for sure thanks again for giving me some much needed advice
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If your scared. Stay in the porch. My daddy used to say. My shop is at my house in a completely remodeled 30 x 40 detached garage so I don't have any additional overhead with rent or utilities if I don't go in the shop/garage.I couldn't think of a worse time to produce those kind of numbers for the first time.
So I'm not out anything and I think it's a perfect time to do this. I am a believer of the survival of the fittest. And as other cuemakers are retiring and others unfortunately are passing away. God rest there souls. It's a perfect time to get into this business.
And I'm building 2 new spec houses for sale. And I have 29 rental properties in the area where I live. And run a small construction company. So I am not relying on the potential income of my cue business to make it. So I'm not worried at all. I'm actually beaming with excitement to get this company off the ground and producing quality cues.
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Thanks for the info and screenshot I appreciate that.
Looks like you bought Darren Hill's shop.
Great looking shop.
Even though you don't need to make money, try not to out cheap everyone just to make a sale .
Great looking shop.
Even though you don't need to make money, try not to out cheap everyone just to make a sale .
yes i bought darrin hills shop over 3 years ago. anyone that knew darrin hill would know he didnt build many cues with this shop and the set up to do alot of the processes werent very practical or the quality wasnt quite there the way the machines were set up
he just liked to take pictures of his shop for people to see really. lmao i think anyway
and so we have been busy changing tapers on all machines
and making a new veneer mitering jig and and point squaring jig and ring cutting station and point cutting station
and i bought 2 new veneer presses and setting up the machines to do different tasks and only done on that specific machine
been alot of work but got it the way we want it now as an example
darrin had built a couple table saw machines to cut veneers miters, well to me
u could still see a signifigant glue line when putting them together in a cue
so we abandoned the idea of using those and am doing it a way that has virtually no lines almost looks seamless
i have some progress pics of first forearm with miter and points doing it this other way posted in machinery and supplies section
hope u like them
check out some pics of our points just completed yesterday i posted in machinery and supplies section super sharp and no seams or glue lines super duper top notch and clean . buddy
thanks for your advice also