Thanks very much, Geoff.
Best Recovering Method for an Amateur?
- Thread starter jviss
- Start date
Me not being a table mechanic and all I found my Simonis which is a larger cut to be kinda tough to install on my Gold Crown, Im sure if I had already covered 100 tables it would not have been nearly as difficult, I dont envy the job you are facing, good luck!! Its time for my table to be recovered again, even though I did it the first time and it turned out OK I would rather have a professional do it, but I do not have anyone in my immediate vicinity that will do a better job, I have looked a lot too.
This! I had a couple of knuckleheads when mine was set up, and I'd rather live with my own sub-par job than someone else's. Plus, I have the time to do it over and over until it comes out right.
Geoff has a point, stapling might be a better idea for me for the bed, since the rip-up and retry will be less messy, and the installation less anxiety-provoking than what contact cement promises. (I already have a pneumatic stapler and compressor.)
Be careful... That's how I got started in this business, back in 2008.
boogieman
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
I agree, especially if it's in a place where humidity exists, that cloth will probably relax enough with humidity that it will slow it down with that stretch.
But they will mostly go away after the second or third r-estretch.
the nylon content is higher and the stretch index LESS. its tricky stuff. he sounds confident, that helps. For all the questions and everyone's time: be sure to show your work.I agree, especially if it's in a place where humidity exists, that cloth will probably relax enough with humidity that it will slow it down with that stretch.
But they will mostly go away after the second or third r-estretch.
Good luck.
TFT
Thanks, Trent. If you could give me some info on the stretch index that would be helpful, as well as any other tips on how to install.
jv
Updated with slate size and stretch recommendations:
For comparison, here are the dimensions of CPBA v. Simonis for a 9' table:
Simonis measurements: Simonis Standard Cloth Cutting Guide
CPBA: measured from actual cloth
CPBA stretch index: 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length
CPBA installation comments from the manufacturer:
For comparison, here are the dimensions of CPBA v. Simonis for a 9' table:
| Simonis | CPBA | Gold Crown I Slate | |
| Bed Length | 112" | 109" | 107" |
| Bed Width | 60" | 60" | 57" |
| Rail Length | 56" | 54 3/4" | |
| Rail Width | 6" | 6" |
Simonis measurements: Simonis Standard Cloth Cutting Guide
CPBA: measured from actual cloth
CPBA stretch index: 1"-1.5" in width and 2"-2.5" in length
CPBA installation comments from the manufacturer:
Maybe one day we'll have time to talk about the glue down I've done a few so far and turned out fine but maybe I just got off easy. Been 2 years and still no problems. I don't take it as bashing but any more info I take in will just help me learn a bit more. I just do this stiff as favors for a few friends and I have done a few for cash but I'm definitely no expert
I'm wondering if the DVDs are worth the expense, given that now I have decided to staple, and I'm only doing one table every five or ten years.
If I had an outline of how to mark the cloth, and a sequence for stapling I think I'd be all set for the bed. The rails should be simpler, I would only have to know how much to try to stretch the cloth lengthwise.
Seems like something an expert could lay out in three or four long-ish paragraphs.
Note that the cloth installation is explained and illustrated in the Gold Crown Service Manual, in the GC V manual two pages for the bed, two for the rails. Note also that the Simonis instructions that predate the DVDs are virtually identical to the GC instructions; it is my guess that Brusnwick cloth was made by Simonis, and Simonis supplied that section of the manual that explains covering.
If one amended the written instructions to include marking the cloth according to the stretch index, would that do it?
Did you watch the Zach Jonas video? Lay the cloth out like he does, (with the proper measurements for your cloth/table) and that should take care of the index for you. I like to add one more measurement, and mark the index from the edge of the pocket on the long sides so I pull it exactly there.I'm wondering if the DVDs are worth the expense, given that now I have decided to staple, and I'm only doing one table every five or ten years.
If I had an outline of how to mark the cloth, and a sequence for stapling I think I'd be all set for the bed. The rails should be simpler, I would only have to know how much to try to stretch the cloth lengthwise.
Seems like something an expert could lay out in three or four long-ish paragraphs.
Note that the cloth installation is explained and illustrated in the Gold Crown Service Manual, in the GC V manual two pages for the bed, two for the rails. Note also that the Simonis instructions that predate the DVDs are virtually identical to the GC instructions; it is my guess that Brusnwick cloth was made by Simonis, and Simonis supplied that section of the manual that explains covering.
If one amended the written instructions to include marking the cloth according to the stretch index, would that do it?
Thanks.
At the end of the day , this guy just wants to know all of our secrets with out paying. Not sharing anything more than I already have. SHADOW CITY!
TFT
TFT
It is clear: every time you post, you are asking us to teach you how to do our jobs. There is a difference between someone who just needs some help and someone who is CHEAP. Just my opinion and you wont be the last one that comes in here and tries to do that. So in essence: you paid some crew very little money to set up your table, you are not happy, bought the CHEAPEST cloth money can buy(and difficult to install) and want everyone to give up their "couple of paragraphs" explaining our processes. I will share one lil secret, WAIT TILL YOU TRY AND COVER THE RAILS!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. HMMMMMMMMM, its not me, IT'S YOU!
TFT
You're a jerk.
For staple spacing, shoot for maybe 1" between staples. Use 1/4" leg staples.I'm wondering if the DVDs are worth the expense, given that now I have decided to staple, and I'm only doing one table every five or ten years.
If I had an outline of how to mark the cloth, and a sequence for stapling I think I'd be all set for the bed. The rails should be simpler, I would only have to know how much to try to stretch the cloth lengthwise.
Seems like something an expert could lay out in three or four long-ish paragraphs.
Note that the cloth installation is explained and illustrated in the Gold Crown Service Manual, in the GC V manual two pages for the bed, two for the rails. Note also that the Simonis instructions that predate the DVDs are virtually identical to the GC instructions; it is my guess that Brusnwick cloth was made by Simonis, and Simonis supplied that section of the manual that explains covering.
If one amended the written instructions to include marking the cloth according to the stretch index, would that do it?
Everything that you are asking for is included in the Simonis DVD's. I would highly recommend them, as they will provide clear and concise visual instruction. As you do the work yourself, you can even watch the instruction again and again, as you will learn more as you begin doing the work yourself. Written word will only take you so far.
When you are finished with the DVD's, you can easily sell them. However, if you don't want to buy the DVD's, Zach Jonas's Youtube videos are a reasonable alternative.
I will correct you here though, and insist that the rails are NOT simpler. In fact, to cover a rail properly requires a lot of experience. It took me maybe a couple of dozen tables to learn the proper techniques and skills to produce a nice, consistent, finished product. There are so many key details that make a huge impact:
The fit of the featherstrips, the length of the featherstrips, the cut angles at the ends of the featherstrips, marking the featherstrips before inserting them.. Also, the tricks that you can use to get the cloth to stay in place with an uneven featherstrip dado.. The tension on the cloth, as you insert the featherstrip.. The direction of pull, as you wrap the cloth under the cushion.. Where to place your first staple.. How to close off the pockets without wrinkles..
There are tricks for all of this, and these aren't even half of the details that produce a nice finished product. It's far more than just a couple of paragraphs.. In fact, there are books already written, which cover all of these things. There are also high quality DVD's which cover a basic set of techniques to produce a consistent finished product. Additionally, there is a ton of free information already available within this sub-forum, which covers all of the information that you are seeking.
I might have to side with Trent on this one... Since I have been the only 'expert' to offer support on your project, I kinda feel as though your sentiments may likely have been directed toward me.. I'm all for helping people.. And I will do so at my own free will... But, when someone acts as though I should be expected to just offer up my time and knowledge (free of charge), it tends to rub me wrong.. Especially if the information is already available in other areas, which require a fee to obtain.. Something that you must understand is that we in this business have spent years learning and honing our craft. We have invested not just time, but also money, in learning the details of this business, and how to continuously improve our skillset.. To freely provide all of this information to those who simply do not want to pay for information that is readily available is an incredible disservice to ourselves.
I am always happy to support, and to offer tips and advice along the way.. However, I will not simply write out a procedure for doing the work.
I wish you all the best, and I hope that your finished product meets your expectations. Though, I respectfully decline to offer any additional information. Despite that, I do hope to see photos of the finished result.. Not because I am hoping for your failure.. Quite the contrary; I hope that it's beautiful.
At this point, the best advice that I can offer: buy the DVD's.
Thanks, Geoff. You have always been, and remain a gentleman. I appreciate all of the information and insight you have provided.
First, it's not the cheapest cloth on can buy, but it's certainly much less than Simonis for a comparable worsted wool cloth. It's 80/20 wool/nylon. 860 is 90/10, 760 is 70/30, 860HR is 70/30, for reference.
Read this:
and this:
and this:Have it on 12 tables in a BUSY Pool Hall since August and the CPBA is very comparable to Simonis 860. Plays fast and has shown to wear the same to!
Trent from Toledo
and this: