learning spin

E

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to learn more about cb/ob spin effects in general
what happens when balls hit other balls, rails, etc.
I know I've learned a lot by playing and watching
definitely reading stuff here and in some books
appreciate anything anybody here has to say about it
 
i think all you need to know is in dr daves articles and videos
great reference
drdavebilliards.com

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards - Dr. Dave Billiards Instructional Products

Instructional book for learning the principles and techniques of pool and billiards. The book covers everything from the fundamentals (stance, stroke, aiming methods, etc.) to advanced techniques (sidespin, carom shots, jump and masse shots, etc.), and is appropriate for all level of player from...
drdavebilliards.com drdavebilliards.com
 
evergruven said:
I'd like to learn more about cb/ob spin effects in general
what happens when balls hit other balls, rails, etc.
I know I've learned a lot by playing and watching
definitely reading stuff here and in some books
appreciate anything anybody here has to say about it
Click to expand...
I really can't comment on the CB/OB transfer of spin in regards to playing banks. I generally avoid playing banks to begin with, so if I found myself with such a shot, I would opt for something else regardless of what that might be.

That said, I use CB/OB spin induced throw all the time while playing 14.1. Doing so allows greater manlipulation of angles, and the ability to pot balls that couldn't be hit on the correct cut line normally. Unfortunately my short experience has indicated that they are a host of variables that change what you can expect with SIT (? spin induced throw). Mostly ball condition and cleanliness though.

A little while back I was playing with a set of aramith tournments that were heavily worn, and so dirty it was like that were dipped in tree sap. The 'SIT' was akin to shooting to gears together...lol.

Another aspect of CB/OB spin transfer I've been enjoying lately, is it's use in manlipulating post combo shape. CB topspin results in OB stun/draw after the combo. CB draw results in OB follow after combo contact. Powerful tool in controling subsequent shape, and alters you thinking when you initially play shape on that combo.

I know the science guys will chime in regarding the min/max amount of spin transfer and maybe how much throw you could expect. The math is out of my wheel house so I'll differ to them.

Personally, I'm a HAMB type player. So my only real advice is to experiment with it...., a lot. The cool part of 'SIT' is that it will open up a host of options that most don't really have in their bag. The downside is most of the time it's so subtle that no one watching will realize how much command you have over the table.

I really don't find myself needing 'SIT' in rotation games very often. Not alot of traffic to obstruct shots and landing zones for the next ball tend to be much larger then say 14.1 or 8 ball. However, it's a powerful tool to keep you at the table rather than punting when it's required.

Enjoy
 
bbb said:
i think all you need to know is in dr daves articles and videos
great reference
drdavebilliards.com

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards - Dr. Dave Billiards Instructional Products

Instructional book for learning the principles and techniques of pool and billiards. The book covers everything from the fundamentals (stance, stroke, aiming methods, etc.) to advanced techniques (sidespin, carom shots, jump and masse shots, etc.), and is appropriate for all level of player from...
drdavebilliards.com drdavebilliards.com
Click to expand...
As an example, this video shows a lot of effects involving cushions:

 
evergruven said:
I'd like to learn more about cb/ob spin effects in general
what happens when balls hit other balls, rails, etc.
I know I've learned a lot by playing and watching
definitely reading stuff here and in some books
appreciate anything anybody here has to say about it
Click to expand...


You're not being fair. You wrote that you learned a lot, yet you're willing to let people go through the trouble to post what you may already know because you're not asking a specific question. Be specific. What is it that you don't understand?
 
Fore Rail said:
IMO everything you want to know can be found by putting in the table time. Keep playing, keep observing.
Click to expand...
That's trying to reinvent all the techniques of the game on your own. Humans moved away from that when they learned to speak and then read/write. Stand on the shoulders of others.
 
Bob Jewett said:
That's trying to reinvent all the techniques of the game on your own. Humans moved away from that when they learned to speak and then read/write. Stand on the shoulders of others.
Click to expand...
Where is my post does it even closely resemble reinventing all the techniques of the game on your own? Let's keep it real Bob, you can't reinvent the physics aspects of the game. It is up to the individual to gain the knowledge by doing & observing how the cue ball and object balls react when hitting the rail, other balls with different spins etc as Evergruven first asked. Then put all that info in the memory bank to use at a later time - play, observe, learn.
 
bbb said:
i think all you need to know is in dr daves articles and videos
great reference
drdavebilliards.com

The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards - Dr. Dave Billiards Instructional Products

Instructional book for learning the principles and techniques of pool and billiards. The book covers everything from the fundamentals (stance, stroke, aiming methods, etc.) to advanced techniques (sidespin, carom shots, jump and masse shots, etc.), and is appropriate for all level of player from...
drdavebilliards.com drdavebilliards.com
Click to expand...

hey larry, thanks..I forgot that dr. published a book!
great idea to dig into that..as much time as I spend on the comp., it's nice to flip pages sometimes (and supposedly, more info. gets retained that way)

The_JV said:
Another aspect of CB/OB spin transfer I've been enjoying lately, is it's use in manlipulating post combo shape.
Click to expand...

hey jarrett, nice one..re: 1p, I've been messing with this as well
great post overall..lot of thoughtful stuff in there..'preciate you digging in
totally agree with HAMB..there's so substitute for experience
in lieu of a few, thanks for the shout ^_^

Bob Jewett said:
As an example, this video shows a lot of effects involving cushions:
Click to expand...

thanks bob, great vid
ps spent some time last night with freddy's bank..fun shot, and I even made a few!

FranCrimi said:
You're not being fair. You wrote that you learned a lot, yet you're willing to let people go through the trouble to post what you may already know because you're not asking a specific question. Be specific. What is it that you don't understand?
Click to expand...

hi fran..at the risk of explaining myself, I thought about posting more specifically, but spin effects are such a world
I didn't want to deny myself, nor anyone else reading, the possibility of learning something new by being pointy
there are a lot of ideas about spin out there- I just figured folks would post if they felt inspired to
and I'm glad they/you did, you never know what somebody is going to find helpful
hope that makes sense..no disrespect intended

Fore Rail said:
IMO everything you want to know can be found by putting in the table time. Keep playing, keep observing.
Click to expand...

hi, as I said above, there is no substitute for personal experience
just as there is no substitute for joining and participating in a forum
thanks for the shout-
 
evergruven said:
hi fran..at the risk of explaining myself, I thought about posting more specifically, but spin effects are such a world
I didn't want to deny myself, nor anyone else reading, the possibility of learning something new by being pointy
there are a lot of ideas about spin out there- I just figured folks would post if they felt inspired to
and I'm glad they/you did, you never know what somebody is going to find helpful
hope that makes sense..no disrespect intended
Click to expand...
Well as teacher, I'm not up for answering a 'tell me what you know and I'll decide which parts interest me,' type of question. Just my opinion, but I think a question like this would go over better in the main forum where anyone could chime in with their dissertations on spin.
 
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evergruven said:
I'd like to learn more about cb/ob spin effects in general
what happens when balls hit other balls, rails, etc.
I know I've learned a lot by playing and watching
definitely reading stuff here and in some books
appreciate anything anybody here has to say about it
Click to expand...
Some affordable sources on banking.
BANKING WITH THE BEARD Copyright © 2005 Freddy Bentivegna.
YouTube has the plus kicking system for two rail kicks
Banking and Kicking made simple Marcel Elfers Copyright ©2017
Dr. Dave resources and articles on spin induced throw, gearing english.
And, you can always contact me.
 
evergruven said:
I'd like to learn more about cb/ob spin effects in general
what happens when balls hit other balls, rails, etc.
I know I've learned a lot by playing and watching
definitely reading stuff here and in some books
appreciate anything anybody here has to say about it
Click to expand...
Spin effects are pretty much intuitive (left or right) until you get into multiple, randomly frozen balls. I recall guys showing me dead balls in a full rack and some of the ground covered was the results of push spinning a line of balls - how you got action on balls other than the first one. Effects like these go all the way to the break itself although far more subtly at break speeds. Suffice it to say for now that spin experimentation should include push combinations and multiple balls.

Back to the left right of it, the main issue I find is keeping spin, speed, and accuracy from interfering with each other. There's your journey of a million balls right there. At that stage, independent throttling of the effects is everything. Left right indeed...
 
straightline said:
Spin effects are pretty much intuitive (left or right) until you get into multiple, randomly frozen balls. I recall guys showing me dead balls in a full rack and some of the ground covered was the results of push spinning a line of balls - how you got action on balls other than the first one. Effects like these go all the way to the break itself although far more subtly at break speeds. Suffice it to say for now that spin experimentation should include push combinations and multiple balls.

Back to the left right of it, the main issue I find is keeping spin, speed, and accuracy from interfering with each other. There's your journey of a million balls right there. At that stage, independent throttling of the effects is everything. Left right indeed...
Click to expand...
I honestly do not understand what this person is trying to say. Does anyone care to translate this?
 
straightline said:
Spin effects are pretty much intuitive (left or right) until you get into multiple, randomly frozen balls. I recall guys showing me dead balls in a full rack and some of the ground covered was the results of push spinning a line of balls - how you got action on balls other than the first one. Effects like these go all the way to the break itself although far more subtly at break speeds. Suffice it to say for now that spin experimentation should include push combinations and multiple balls.

Back to the left right of it, the main issue I find is keeping spin, speed, and accuracy from interfering with each other. There's your journey of a million balls right there. At that stage, independent throttling of the effects is everything. Left right indeed...
Click to expand...

this reminds me of a page or two in a byrne book I have
when the cb is frozen to the ob, you can do some neat stuff that (at least to me) wasn't at first intuitive
 
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