Did the old clay balls skid?

[L.S. Dennis]

Just wondering, I’ve heard a lot of the old timers say that the old clay balls in used years ago did not skid like the new phenolic or at all for that matter. I heard Grady Mathews say this not to long ago on one of commentaries on Accu-stats. I used to play with those balls years ago but at that time I didn’t know what a ‘skid’ was. This has a science aspect to it so I would like to hear Bob’s take on this.
’

 

[iusedtoberich]

I’ve also heard the same from Grady’s commentary over the years. I recall that the older thicker and slower cloth may have been mentioned as a contributing factor as well.

 

[mikemosconi]

They did not skid on the cloth used back then, but they were not good pool balls either.

 

[sjm]

I've never played with clay balls, but an old timer told me that they would chip and that they lost their roundness faster than today's ball sets.

 

[pt109]

I think there were always skids...
...and maybe more...thick cloth and imperfect balls make them more common... but we used to beat the majority of them by using speed..
..and a lot that did happen were explained as dogging it.

 

[WildWing]

Yep, Grady did mention that the clay balls did not skid. He also mentioned that they banked very true. There was the cracking problem over time though. I also think that hitting the cue ball low keeps object balls from skidding regardless of the material.

All the best,
WW

 

[L.S. Dennis]

It seems to me that there is an easy answer to this question, why not just get an old set of those balls (they can still be obtained I believe) and try them out on a new modern 860 or 760 cloth. Am I missing something?

 

[Boxcar]

The surface of composition balls was porous, whereas, phenolic resin balls have what could honestly be called a non-porous surface. The porosity of the composition balls acted like a tire tread, thus reducing skid. As a result of variable atmospheric conditions, the porosity was ultimately responsible for their structural (cracking, chipping, etc.) failure.

Another factor that I forgot is the weight of the two different balls. A phenolic resin ball will weigh +/- 5.7 ounces. A composition ball will weigh +/- 6.4 ounces. The inertia of the additional weight would tend to make the heavier ball want to continue rolling and to thus retard skid.

 

[pt109]

I've never played with clay balls, but an old timer told me that they would chip and that they lost their roundness faster than today's ball sets.

Strawberry playing one-hole long time ago....game ball...hits it hard with draw to avoid a scratch...
...the ball splits...about a third of the ball is left wobbling on the table...somebody says “What happens here?”
UJ Pucket, who’s betting on the other guy, says “Well, Straw, seems like you still need almost half a ball.”

 

[sjm]

Strawberry playing one-hole long time ago....game ball...hits it hard with draw to avoid a scratch...
...the ball splits...about a third of the ball is left wobbling on the table...somebody says “What happens here?”
UJ Pucket, who’s betting on the other guy, says “Well, Straw, seems like you still need almost half a ball.”

Perhaps this is the origin of the term "a half ball hit."

 

[mikemosconi]

It seems to me that there is an easy answer to this question, why not just get an old set of those balls (they can still be obtained I believe) and try them out on a new modern 860 or 760 cloth. Am I missing something?

It is very difficult to find a set of clay balls that has not cracked - to find perfectly smooth clay billiard balls is not an easy task- a set of clay balls in the condition that could help one determine skidding or not would cost many hundreds of $ as they are so rare. Also, Grady was not referring to clay balls on Simonis - he was talking about pool playing conditions that combined heavy wool cloth with truly playable clay balls.

It is not really important anyhow- as both clay balls and heavy wool cloth are both gone forever in this game.

 

[cjr3559]

I’m going out on a limb and say roll-off was a bigger issue with clay balls than skidding, especially old worn sets and on old chalk infested worn cloth. Slow roll at your own peril…

 

[L.S. Dennis]

I’m going out on a limb and say roll-off was a bigger issue with clay balls than skidding, especially old worn sets and on old chalk infested worn cloth. Slow roll at your own peril…

Both your and MikeMosoni’s points are well taken, although I think a set of clay balls could still be found albeit it difficult to be sure.

 

[SBC]

Skids are due modern phenolic balls played on worsted cloth stretched as tight as humanly possible.

 

[skogstokig]

Skids are due modern phenolic balls played on worsted cloth stretched as tight as humanly possible.

snooker has combed cloth (i don't know cloth terminology) but has almost eradicated skids with the introduction of taom chalk. so chalk must be in the equation

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Skids are due modern phenolic balls played on worsted cloth stretched as tight as humanly possible.

I don't think the cloth has any effect on skid.

I don't know about the balls, but I've always thought modern phenolic balls had smoother surfaces than old clay balls, which would create less friction and therefore less throw/skids.

pj
chgo

 

[rexus31]

Skids are due modern phenolic balls played on worsted cloth stretched as tight as humanly possible.

Skids happen when the balls get dirty (usually chalk residue) and that dirty spot makes contact with another ball. Slower speed of the shot further magnifies the phenomenon.

 

[kling&allen]

Skids happen when the balls get dirty (usually chalk residue) and that dirty spot makes contact with another ball. Slower speed of the shot further magnifies the phenomenon.

Cling is most common term for that effect:

Pool Ball "Cling," "Skid," or "Kick" - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

Answers to frequently-asked questions about pool ball cling, skid, and kick.

billiards.colostate.edu

I think the earlier posters are talking about the other type of skid, between the cue ball and cloth.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I think the earlier posters are talking about the other type of skid, between the cue ball and cloth.

As in how far a center-hit ball slides before rolling?

pj
chgo

 

[kling&allen]

As in how far a center-hit ball slides before rolling?

pj
chgo

Yes, with the question being whether the old clay balls would slide before rolling like modern phenolics. I don't know the answer. I have a few old clay balls and they made a mess on my table the few times I tried to hit them.

Crane did talk about this effect (or lack of it) in an interview in 1969:

"To his credit, or at least in his defense, Crane grew up in an era of large tables, small pockets, ivory cue balls and Belgian clay object balls, conditions that made a run of 100, some say, comparable to a run of 300 with today's equipment. Today the tables are smaller (4½' by 9'), the pockets are larger (5½" vs. 4‚Öû") and the object balls and the cue ball are made of plastic. "The ball skids like an ashtray when you hit it," Crane says. "It's not supposed to skid, it's supposed to roll. These plastic balls are pretty. They don't ever chip, they don't ever break, they hold their color forever—and they're the worst balls ever made."

The Frail Gray Man with the Strong Pool Cue

Irving Crane, who is one of the best straight pocket billiards players in the world, could be the now slightly aged prototype of the original 97-pound

vault.si.com