Swoopy stroke on Myth Busters

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Some people believe they can get some kind of special action with a swooping stroke in which the whole cue is turning to one side or another at the instant of contact. The orthodox alternative is the much simpler way of stroking straight through the ball.

Here is the similar idea using firearms.

 
Bob Jewett said:
Some people believe they can get some kind of special action with a swooping stroke in which the whole cue is turning to one side or another at the instant of contact. The orthodox alternative is the much simpler way of stroking straight through the ball.

Here is the similar idea using firearms.

Click to expand...

This episode was inspired by the cinematic masterpiece "Wanted" from 2008
 
Back when I was a teen trying to learn on my own, I did give the swoop stroke a try for awhile. Most of the time I swerved too quick or too late but once in a few dozen tries I did get the cue ball to jump around the table like a wild child! I miscued before I got that much action just with tips of english so I decided there was some validity to the swoop stroke. I also decided that it was too unreliable to bother with.

The gun is a different deal, the bullet is always going down a straight barrel. If you turned a barrel whippy enough to fling a bullet like a major league curve ball what would the result be?

Gun barrels have a far more interesting phenomena that was unexplained last I knew. Same bullets from the best makers in the world, loaded to a degree of accuracy that is far beyond the average reloader, shot through multiple barrels from the same manufacturer. Some will cut the wind much better than others. Generally call them hummer barrels. Some are supremely accurate too, I had one such magic barrel. Others aren't particularly accurate by benchrest standards but they still shoot bullets that cut the wind better than other barrels.

It was a mystery benchrest shooters chased for decades. As far as I know they are still chasing it!

Hu
 
i believe also that a swooping stroke wont do anything. but a bullet traveling at a minimum of 680 mph is not a good analogy. compared to a cueball at maybe 10 mph.

**edited original post into mph correctly
 
Last edited:
I've seen a couple of references in old billiards books/articles to 'twisting the cue'. I was never quite sure what they were trying to describe, as players used to call ordinary sidespin 'twist', but the context seemed to imply rotating the butt of the cue at contact (or maybe swinging it to one side).
The references seemed to be written like reluctantly-surrendered hints to a secret technique, but I think pool breeds a lot of bogus ideas and I'm not convinced there's anything there.
 
A swooping stroke would work with a modified cue tip.

Competition cue tips wont work, because the contact time is too little.

I will try to get a lab approved video poated.
 
justnum said:
A swooping stroke would work with a modified cue tip.

Competition cue tips wont work, because the contact time is too little.

I will try to get a lab approved video poated.
Click to expand...
What works with a swooping stroke that doesn't work with a non-swooping stroke? Can you be specific?

Are you suggesting a swooping stroke can make the cue ball curve around objects, like the bullets in the movie?

What is the effect of contact time to whatever action you're hypothesizing?

I look forward to your lab approved video? Which lab by the way?
 
gerryf said:
What works with a swooping stroke that doesn't work with a non-swooping stroke? Can you be specific?

Are you suggesting a swooping stroke can make the cue ball curve around objects, like the bullets in the movie?

What is the effect of contact time to whatever action you're hypothesizing?

I look forward to your lab approved video? Which lab by the way?
Click to expand...

I am currently editing the video now.
I was undecided if the audience would be satisfied with a recreational demonstration or if I should do a dual comparison of the swoop stroke with a proper swoop cue tip.

You know about Area 51, some of the other areas outsource their work.
 
gerryf said:


What works with a swooping stroke that doesn't work with a non-swooping stroke? Can you be specific?

Are you suggesting a swooping stroke can make the cue ball curve around objects, like the bullets in the movie?

What is the effect of contact time to whatever action you're hypothesizing?

I look forward to your lab approved video? Which lab by the way?
Click to expand...

I am currently editing the video now.
I was undecided if the audience would be satisfied with a recreational demonstration or if I should do a dual comparison of the swoop stroke with a proper swoop cue tip.

You know about Area 51, some of the other areas outsource their work.

But you haven't answered the question. What effects do you think you'll get from a swoop stroke?
 
gerryf said:
I am currently editing the video now.
I was undecided if the audience would be satisfied with a recreational demonstration or if I should do a dual comparison of the swoop stroke with a proper swoop cue tip.

You know about Area 51, some of the other areas outsource their work.

But you haven't answered the question. What effects do you think you'll get from a swoop stroke?
Click to expand...

I will present it properly for the first time with this on demand request. I need to add audio over it that takes about 20 minutes.

If you just want to see the recorded observations I can post it now. But everyone is so picky on this forum.

My last multi cam angle video received criticism because I didn't film in 1080p.
 
Pin said:
I've seen a couple of references in old billiards books/articles to 'twisting the cue'. I was never quite sure what they were trying to describe, as players used to call ordinary sidespin 'twist', but the context seemed to imply rotating the butt of the cue at contact (or maybe swinging it to one side).
The references seemed to be written like reluctantly-surrendered hints to a secret technique, but I think pool breeds a lot of bogus ideas and I'm not convinced there's anything there.
Click to expand...

A flaw that seems to be forever in my game. I tried twisting the cue at impact trying to get spin too. For some reason that has stuck with me for over fifty years and was still there after a twenty year layoff when I rarely shot. Doesn't happen other times but if I am hitting with side with my grip hand wrapped around the buttcap, lookout!

I don't claim this to be anything but another flaw. It just amazes me how deeply it is embedded in my game. Now if I catch my hand around the buttcap I move my hand! The swoop was almost impossible to do, then there was a total lack of control. It was easy to take out of my game. No idea why the twist survives forever.

Hu
 
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I present the first ever swoop stroke video with proper swoop cue tip.

 
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Pin said:
I've seen a couple of references in old billiards books/articles to 'twisting the cue'. I was never quite sure what they were trying to describe, as players used to call ordinary sidespin 'twist', but the context seemed to imply rotating the butt of the cue at contact (or maybe swinging it to one side).
The references seemed to be written like reluctantly-surrendered hints to a secret technique, but I think pool breeds a lot of bogus ideas and I'm not convinced there's anything there.
Click to expand...
A US 3-cushion player named Bill Hawkins was the most obvious exponent of swoop-spin. Every side spin shot ended with the cue tip a few inches to the side of the spin. He also held the "modern" US record for high run (at 17?) for a while.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
A US 3-cushion player named Bill Hawkins was the most obvious exponent of swoop-spin. Every side spin shot ended with the cue tip a few inches to the side of the spin. He also held the "modern" US record for high run (at 17?) for a while.
Click to expand...
I take it nobody would teach the style though? So presumably a result of how he personally made things work, like the unconventional strokes some champions picked up as children.

Do you know whether he got unusually strong spin, compared to other top players?
 
Bob Jewett said:
A US 3-cushion player named Bill Hawkins was the most obvious exponent of swoop-spin. Every side spin shot ended with the cue tip a few inches to the side of the spin. He also held the "modern" US record for high run (at 17?) for a while.
Click to expand...
Pin said:
I take it nobody would teach the style though? So presumably a result of how he personally made things work, like the unconventional strokes some champions picked up as children.

Do you know whether he got unusually strong spin, compared to other top players?
Click to expand...
I've never seen him play, and I can confidently say he didn't. Nobody has ever demonstrated (or even theorized convincingly) that a swoop stroke accomplishes anything useful - it only reduces accuracy/consistency.

pj
chgo
 
Pin said:
I take it nobody would teach the style though? So presumably a result of how he personally made things work, like the unconventional strokes some champions picked up as children.

Do you know whether he got unusually strong spin, compared to other top players?
Click to expand...
He didn't stand out for his amount of spin.

I've been told that Hoppe swooped. You can see in the few films/videos available that Hoppe was far from orthodox but he seems to swoop on only some shots. Cochran on the other hand prided himself in coming straight through.
 
ShootingArts said:
Back when I was a teen trying to learn on my own, I did give the swoop stroke a try for awhile. Most of the time I swerved too quick or too late but once in a few dozen tries I did get the cue ball to jump around the table like a wild child! I miscued before I got that much action just with tips of english so I decided there was some validity to the swoop stroke. I also decided that it was too unreliable to bother with.

The gun is a different deal, the bullet is always going down a straight barrel. If you turned a barrel whippy enough to fling a bullet like a major league curve ball what would the result be?

Gun barrels have a far more interesting phenomena that was unexplained last I knew. Same bullets from the best makers in the world, loaded to a degree of accuracy that is far beyond the average reloader, shot through multiple barrels from the same manufacturer. Some will cut the wind much better than others. Generally call them hummer barrels. Some are supremely accurate too, I had one such magic barrel. Others aren't particularly accurate by benchrest standards but they still shoot bullets that cut the wind better than other barrels.

It was a mystery benchrest shooters chased for decades. As far as I know they are still chasing it!

Hu
Click to expand...

That's my view on shaft's, build 10 shafts out of the same chunk of tree and they'll all play differently. Mother Nature is going to do what she wants to do ;)
 
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