Dreaming of and designing my own pool table

[3kushn]

So, in my quest for the ultimate, strongest, heavy duty pool table, I could place a double nut ...
Let's say one nut has 10 threads of 360°, two nuts have double !!!
That would make the load carrying capacity even higher, doesn't it.
That is a lot easier than designing an alternative system.

Thanks for the input.

I'm not a mechanical engineer or a table mechanic, only a lowly retired torque tooling peddler.
Typical rule of thumb is 3X diameter of thread engagement is about all the pull strength you can get. If I were to select fasteners for the ultimate design I'd find or have made precision studs and nuts with rolled threads, not cut threads. Rolled would have the strongest thread strength. Class of fit would be 3A & 3B. I don't believe you would need high tensile strength if you're going to be bolting against wood. Looking at Perfection, you'll want to be sure bolt holes line up perfectly so the bearing surface under the bolt head has full contact. This will ensure, for one, that if a torque wrench is used you'll end up with tighter tolerances regarding tension/clamp load. I'd also suggest heavy precision washers.
Brain Storming.....

 

[3kushn]

I'm kinda partial to "T-Rails" Just my opinion, its a stronger design.
2 things although.
The rails aren't as quiet.
Risk of cracking a slate if you crank down on the rail bolts.

This is my Verhoeven
50mm slate.
Top row goes into the slate. Bottom row goes into the frame.

 

[EL Picos]

I don't think that 2 wood cross member at the seam is the best design...

 

[boogieman]

I'm not a mechanical engineer or a table mechanic, only a lowly retired torque tooling peddler.
Typical rule of thumb is 3X diameter of thread engagement is about all the pull strength you can get. If I were to select fasteners for the ultimate design I'd find or have made precision studs and nuts with rolled threads, not cut threads. Rolled would have the strongest thread strength. Class of fit would be 3A & 3B. I don't believe you would need high tensile strength if you're going to be bolting against wood. Looking at Perfection, you'll want to be sure bolt holes line up perfectly so the bearing surface under the bolt head has full contact. This will ensure, for one, that if a torque wrench is used you'll end up with tighter tolerances regarding tension/clamp load. I'd also suggest heavy precision washers.
Brain Storming.....

Yep, and wood is a living thing. Don't put the beef to it, it's like cloth, you have to work with the material and it's "weave" to get the best results. Any natural material takes knowledge to use properly and it looks like you definitely understand that.

 

[MamboFats]

The slate is held by the rail bolts.

If I understand this correctly: the complete table is just 2 parts: the top part with slate and rails is just laying on top of the frame with the leveling system...
Is there really no fysical attachment through screws, bolts or whatever?
So the complete slate with rails could shift when bumped very hard?

Watch the video on YT. Shows it very clearly.

I don't know if I watched the correct video. I saw two different lengths of screws attaching the leveling leafs to the frame. I saw the explication of the slate leveling, but I don't remember hearing them talk about attaching the slate.
I can be wrong ...

First I was thinking of copying the Diamond system with the leafs, but now I've turned 90° (not 180°): trying to combine the interesting features of Diamond with a regular frame built.

Thanx for the input

 

[Ssonerai]

Hello again,
I've been working on the slate leveling system. I've got it figured out ...
I've got some images to show : (pictures, etc.....)

[/QUOTE]
Think about your wedge system a little bit.
1.it is to be hoped you would not need that much depth ever, (of shim thickness) to level a conventional slate.
1.a.) that much depth in wood invites shrinking/swelling
(My) conclusion: simplify, and use a thinner, all metal (preferable), or all plastic shim if you have access to strong plastics for the sneck.

2.) Re: screw actuation - once again, it is to be hoped that very little displacement of that size potential shim would never be necessary.
2.a.) feeding the shim along the screw as shown will gradually bend it.
(My) conclusion: will probably work since it is unlikely to ever be displaced significantly from installed flush height.
However, using a slotted nut, in a slot in the end of the metal shim, would allow the nut to pull the shim as well as push it. The slot in the shim would allow rise & fall as necessary with shim displacement.

It has bothered me, as El Picos notes, that you have supports on each side of the joints rather than directly under them.
I imagine that you did that so the shim systems for each side can work independently. However, structurally, it is less stable than one support under both. So you might have to re-configure the shim system at those locations. Or place the supports closer together and connect them to form a sort of H flange beam.

Some parts of this you are probably over-thinking in wood.
But good luck, that is how progress happens.


smt

 

[EL Picos]

I don't want to bring confusion but I think that, me too, to build up my own frame table a day and concerning the levelling support system, I would glue HPDE pieces 5/8-3/4 inch thick to the slate for fixing long bolts instead to drill holes in slates , It will do a system that work in two ways up and down.

 

[Sheldon]

If I understand this correctly: the complete table is just 2 parts: the top part with slate and rails is just laying on top of the frame with the leveling system...
Is there really no fysical attachment through screws, bolts or whatever?
So the complete slate with rails could shift when bumped very hard?

No, the frame and leveling system are connected with screws, and the rails and the rail bolts connect and hold the slate to them.

 

[MamboFats]

I don't want to bring confusion but I think that, me too, to build up my own frame table a day and concerning the levelling support system, I would glue HPDE pieces 5/8-3/4 inch thick to the slate for fixing long bolts instead to drill holes in slates , It will do a system that work in two ways up and down.

I've been looking at some kind of this material, as the Diamonds wedges are made of such a plastic.

Since this is very expensive around my place, now I look at it from the other angle ...
Diamond has a plastic wedge in a slotted groove in plywood, I will be using a wooden wedge in a slotted groove of the frame, with a plastic plate inside that groove => I found some kitchen cutting boards in this material at ¼" thick, these can withstand high pressure, can be sanded and are really cheap.

I will look at putting slate screws down in the frame.
Since the frame is plywood, maybe I can put some solid wood blocks on the places where the slate has its screw holes.

 

[EL Picos]

I've been looking at some kind of this material, as the Diamonds wedges are made of such a plastic.

Since this is very expensive around my place, now I look at it from the other angle ...
Diamond has a plastic wedge in a slotted groove in plywood, I will be using a wooden wedge in a slotted groove of the frame, with a plastic plate inside that groove => I found some kitchen cutting boards in this material at ¼" thick, these can withstand high pressure, can be sanded and are really cheap.

I will look at putting slate screws down in the frame.
Since the frame is plywood, maybe I can put some solid wood blocks on the places where the slate has its screw holes.

Will you drill the slate in the seam also?

 

[MamboFats]

Will you drill the slate in the seam also?

I don't understand your question...

 

[kid]

Something is missing on those drawings: hardware.
What you are going to use is as important if not more than how strong your parts are.
I personally would have the frame corners connected and not rely only on the legs to hold it together


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant AzBilliards Forums

 

[MamboFats]

Something is missing on those drawings: hardware.
What you are going to use is as important if not more than how strong your parts are.
I personally would have the frame corners connected and not rely only on the legs to hold it together

That's correct. I have not yet drawn corner connections to hold all sides in place.
In my sketchbook (paper and pencil) I have the long sides of the legs shorter, with the sideframe sticking out (only an overlap of about 4"). A block of solid wood is to be put in each corner for strenght, attached with2 or 3 bolts on each side.
I have not yet drawn this in the digital design ... homework

 

[MamboFats]

So I just altered my design as I mentioned in the last post.
The outsides of the legs are shortened for multiple reasons.
1. they serve no purpose in the general strenght of the leg
2. that part of the leg will be hidden behind the skirts
3. it's my most expensive piece of wood
I also put in the inside corner blocks that hold the outside frame pieces together.

Just having fun ...

 

[MamboFats]

It's been over six weeks since I posted, but I haven't been doing nothing on this project.
I've bought some very nice oak that will be used for the legs and the toprail and the skirts.
In the meanwhile I've been learning to use Autodesk Fusion 360 on a higher level (jumping from absolute beginner to ... just 1 step up)

I've settled on the design: here are my latest sketches ...


I've chosen the 6 leg design. Just for peace of mind: there is a small chance of getting a 2" slate ... Crazy, I know ... Just want to be prepared if ever...
These legs I will be building this winter.

A friend - carpenter and furniture maker by profession - assured me when I glue several layers of plywood together and use it standing up, the strenght will be amongst the better hard woods. At my job I can get 1,25" plywood. So two layers gives me 2.5" thick frame beams. If necessary I can make it 3 layers ...
Planning to build this frame early 2022 ...

On top of the frame comes the slate leveling system: I've not yet decided on the actual system I'm gonna use. Still have time to decide.

The slate will be at least a 1.25" thick slate (30mm). I have multiple sources nearby, so this will come down to price .... unless I can get a 50mm thick - 2 inches - ... I'm willing to pay for that ... just wanting to be my table unique in every way ... It's fun to chase your dreams

I had a lot of problems drawings these rails. They are not yet perfect, pocketholes are not yet in this design and the pointy edges will be gone in my next drawing session.
Hope to be building these by summer 2022

Just a simple side and front view of my design.
I hope you guys see some resemblance with the Diamond Pro-Am ... my dream table

This project is a real journey.
The last weeks I've been sketching the jigs that will be needed to cut all the different angles of the legs and the rails.
I have no professional tablesaw, no CNC available, ... just some basic tools like a 89$ tablesaw, a battery-powered handdrill/screwdriver and an old plungerouter. In the past I have made several jigs to fit my tablesaw to be able to cut awkward angles, tenons and mortises. For my router I made a small table to fit underneath. Even this part of the project I find fascinating.

Just watched the semi's and the final of the US Open, I enjoyed this so much ...
Pool is fantastic

Enjoy the game

 

[MamboFats]

This evening, just like many before has nothing to offer on TV. So I've been drawing, and drawing, and drawing ...

Put in some corner pieces, and made the cutouts for the pocket liners

Top view, looking a little like a Diamond ...

 

[muskyed]

While I presently have a Diamond Professional and have had a few basic Brunswick's, one of which I modified the frame to strengthen it up considerably, I have a few suggestions. Keep in mind that I have been a long time woodworker, with a 26' by 40' full professional woodworking shop, with most any tool needed to easily build my own table except the machining of the top rail slope similar to a Diamond Professional. First I would get rid of the center legs, and go back to 4 legs. Along with this, I would strengthen your outer rails to at least 3 layers or possibly 4, instead of two. reason being is if your floor settles, shifts, or for whatever reason moves over time, it would be much easier to relevel your table with 4 legs. With 6 legs, and say one end of your floor shifts, you cant just level one or two legs, and more than likely will also have to readjust some of your shims, and there in lies the problem of your wedge design in that you are moving that wedge to alter the height. think about it, while everything is fine with wedges like that on the initial setup as you can slide the slates together to glue the joint after you have all the slates level, just what happens afterword if you need to readjust a few of the wedges? Those slates are floating, not held down to anything except the rail torque, and you are going to loosen the rails somewhat for those wedge adjustments. At that point only thing holding your slates together is a few pieces of paper with super glue. Now you want thick slate, and that puts a lot of weight on those wedges, and depending on what wedge you move, it may actually try and separate the joint. With a sturdy enough table 4 legs would be a better solution, as you could then, if your table was set up correctly in the first place, just relevel just one or two at the most leg adjusters. You also could make a leveling system similar to the Rassons, but with a bigger pad between the adjuster and slate to get the supporting surface you desire. You really perked my interest on this one, and got me thinking, as I would love to design my own table. But even with my shop and all its equipment, I probably would buy a set of Diamond rails and build the rest. Also would probably go to single cross beams instead of your double. Also would be connecting your outer rails together to make a frame instead of unconnected as your drawing shows.

 

[MamboFats]

While I presently have a Diamond Professional and have had a few basic Brunswick's, one of which I modified the frame to strengthen it up considerably, I have a few suggestions. Keep in mind that I have been a long time woodworker, with a 26' by 40' full professional woodworking shop, with most any tool needed to easily build my own table except the machining of the top rail slope similar to a Diamond Professional. First I would get rid of the center legs, and go back to 4 legs. Along with this, I would strengthen your outer rails to at least 3 layers or possibly 4, instead of two. reason being is if your floor settles, shifts, or for whatever reason moves over time, it would be much easier to relevel your table with 4 legs. With 6 legs, and say one end of your floor shifts, you cant just level one or two legs, and more than likely will also have to readjust some of your shims, and there in lies the problem of your wedge design in that you are moving that wedge to alter the height. think about it, while everything is fine with wedges like that on the initial setup as you can slide the slates together to glue the joint after you have all the slates level, just what happens afterword if you need to readjust a few of the wedges? Those slates are floating, not held down to anything except the rail torque, and you are going to loosen the rails somewhat for those wedge adjustments. At that point only thing holding your slates together is a few pieces of paper with super glue. Now you want thick slate, and that puts a lot of weight on those wedges, and depending on what wedge you move, it may actually try and separate the joint. With a sturdy enough table 4 legs would be a better solution, as you could then, if your table was set up correctly in the first place, just relevel just one or two at the most leg adjusters. You also could make a leveling system similar to the Rassons, but with a bigger pad between the adjuster and slate to get the supporting surface you desire. You really perked my interest on this one, and got me thinking, as I would love to design my own table. But even with my shop and all its equipment, I probably would buy a set of Diamond rails and build the rest. Also would probably go to single cross beams instead of your double. Also would be connecting your outer rails together to make a frame instead of unconnected as your drawing shows.

Thx for your input.
Rasson is for sure a manufacturer I've been looking at, but not for their leveling system - I like the Diamond system better. But their Chinese Pool tables are 6-legged and I really like that design. I'm just not fond of those snooker pockets. I prefer a 1-piece long rail with big sacks, or maybe a ball-return system (that's to be decided later).
Meanwhile I've spend quite a sleepless night due to a clogged nose (autumn is coming): so nothing better to do than draw.

First I altered the color scheme to the red oak I've bought. I think it looks nice with the black frame.

I also drew the pocketliners. This is now really looking like a quality pool table.

Close-up of the corner pocket liner.

And here is the middle pocket liner

I've been thinking about the placement of the leveling points, not yet on the right scale.
The four internal beams offer me plenty of support for placing multiple points under each slate. This is by no means final: to be decide when building the frame.

Here you can see the placement of those leveling points in regards to the slate screw holes. The position of these holes is from a 9' slate from manufacturer Clash - it's quite easy for me to get one of these, they even provide a technical drawing. I'm not sure if other manufacturers have slates with those screw holes on the same locations. This is to be checked when purchasing the slate. (I can also get my hands on Rasson slate and Toulet slate - 50mm thick).

I'm going overkill on a lot of aspects of this build. I want it to last a nuclear holocaust ...

I hope you guys like it ...

 

[MamboFats]

Hi guys,
I've redesigned the legs and make my first rendering

 

[MamboFats]

The last month I've been looking around for materials, prices and stuff like that. Actually, I already bought some nice oak planks to be used on the legs and the rails. The color is close to the rendering.
Also, watching YouTube tutorials on jigs for woodworking. I'll be building this with a a small tablesaw, a jigsaw, a battery powered drill and a bunch of handtools. So, I've got to make the best of it and be clever as Einstein ...
This week I've spent a lot of time thinking about the rail outer corners. I don't like pointy ... I'll be the ass constantly bumping into them. I don't like rounded, I just don't. But I like chamfered, just like the Diamonds.
I figured it out how to manufacture the rails, step by step. I've got it written down and it all makes sense.
Meanwhile I drew a nicer top view of the rails and their corners. And now I have all the exact dimensions for cutting the oak planks

I'm taking a week of work next month, I hope to start cutting boards. So I can spend my winter evenings, glueing and assembling the feet and rails. Looking forward to it.