Center Pocket Music: angled face and stepping the cueball

True. To make the problem/distinction clearer in discussions, I think it is good to refer to "uncorrected ghostball" and "corrected ghostball". The uncorrected version is the ghostball without throw correction and is the easiest to teach to raw beginners. The corrected version takes into account the throw and adjusts the ghost ball position as needed. The former is no good for shots over a couple of feet long and the latter is perfect if you know exactly how much throw will occur. Of course there is still the issue of landing the cue ball on the corrected ghostball.
And not just ghostball. My "system" is to aim (by feel) to hit the OB contact point, which I visualize at its "corrected" location.

Another similar technique is to aim the object ball at a "corrected" target - typically offcenter in the pocket (or even just outside the pocket).

pj
chgo
 
... Another similar technique is to aim the object ball at a "corrected" target - typically offcenter in the pocket (or even just outside the pocket). ...
I think this is fairly common, but I'm philosophically opposed to the idea. I prefer aiming at the actual path and getting a feel for everything that goes into that path. Always visualize the OB going along the path you want.
 
True. To make the problem/distinction clearer in discussions, I think it is good to refer to "uncorrected ghostball" and "corrected ghostball". The uncorrected version is the ghostball without throw correction and is the easiest to teach to raw beginners. The corrected version takes into account the throw and adjusts the ghost ball position as needed. The former is no good for shots over a couple of feet long and the latter is perfect if you know exactly how much throw will occur. Of course there is still the issue of landing the cue ball on the corrected ghostball.
Which is where the contact geometry I opened with when I started posting, comes in. PJ even VPd it.
 
That's what I'm saying, I can't really explain the method but it's not ghost ball. I visualize the path of the OB and hit it so it goes down that path. I've been watching the Truth Series and I can see there is definitely something to it. I'm thinking about picking up the book when budget allows as it never hurts to have some more knowledge on the game.
 
That's what I'm saying, I can't really explain the method but it's not ghost ball. I visualize the path of the OB and hit it so it goes down that path. I've been watching the Truth Series and I can see there is definitely something to it. I'm thinking about picking up the book when budget allows as it never hurts to have some more knowledge on the game.
It can (will) hurt if it's counterproductive. Meaningful anything; pool, guitar, quantum theory... doesn't happen overnight. You may pickup useful snippets from the method but if you seek to be race machine, You have to iron that out by your own reason.
 
So I've been staring at a pair of striped balls on my bed for about an hour now and I'm wondering if I'm on the right track.

So without moving my head and only shifting my eyes:

After I lock in my perception, without moving my head, if I look at the left side of the cue ball and slowly shift my gaze back to center CB, I get the sense that my right eye is doing most of the work.

If I focus on the right side of the CB and slowly move to center cueball, I feel my left eye doing more work than before.

If I had to guess:
Left to right, 10% Left eye, 90% Right eye
Right to Left 45% Left eye, 55% Right eye

Does this make sense morht?
 
I did see a video awhile back where there were about 57000 lines drawn all over the table. This was some guy trying to explain CTE. I guess I'm just destined to remain in the dark. All the videos, especially Stan's, are very confusing and do a very poor job of explaining things.

I'd hoped maybe this guy mohrt could help but after reading all his stuff I'm even more confused. I know it must work but I'm not smart enough to understand it. I like to spin my ball alot and they say use BHE but I can't get that to work either.

Do you think I should spend the 100 or should I try golf instead. I think golf is easier?
Maybe try some of the other aiming systems if aiming is something you want to work on.
 
I did see a video awhile back where there were about 57000 lines drawn all over the table. This was some guy trying to explain CTE. I guess I'm just destined to remain in the dark. All the videos, especially Stan's, are very confusing and do a very poor job of explaining things.

I'd hoped maybe this guy mohrt could help but after reading all his stuff I'm even more confused. I know it must work but I'm not smart enough to understand it. I like to spin my ball alot and they say use BHE but I can't get that to work either.

Do you think I should spend the 100 or should I try golf instead. I think golf is easier?
In my opinion, there has never been a CTE Student that was as "slow in the brain" as me. However I learned to use Basic CTE with the manual pivot, CTE Pro One, and am now studying Disguised Pivoting. Please don't sell yourself short in the "smarts" department. You can do it also. If I can do it, ANYBODY can.
CTE is very odd in the beginning because it requires a "reprogramming" of the eyes and the way we view spheres on a pool table surface. Some guys grasp it right away....I was not one of those. It took me some time because I had decades of un-learning to do.
You mentioned you like to spin the ball. CTE in no way requires you to give up using english (spin). Mr. Shuffett has free videos available on YouTube dealing with that exact subject of how to use spin. Just because CTE is taught as a center axis playing method does not prevent you from using inside english, outside english, high, low left, low right, etc. etc.
I'm just offering you some encouragement here. The method does work though and I hope you can work it out. The satisfaction shoots your confidence through the roof because you will KNOW you're at least aiming at the shot in the right way. NO Guesswork and no imagining invisible ghosty balls down there somewhere.
That's "one less bell to answer" when playing the game...especially under pressure
But if you feel, after maybe 30-40 hours of work at the table, you're still spinning your wheels and not improving...then by all means just let it go and try another aiming method. Brian Crist's Poolology works like a charm in his hands.
Frustration can be an annoying thing and pool should be FUN. (although it's a lot more fun when you pick off some cash and hear the railbirds collapse over there when they're shouting and pulling against you):)
Good wishes to you. (y)
Pete Lowenstein
(Low500)
 
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CTE is very odd in the beginning because it requires a "reprogramming" of the eyes and the way we view spheres on a pool table surface. Some guys grasp it right away....I was not one of those. It took me some time because I had decades of un-learning to do.
This is where I stalled when trying to grasp CTE. I got to a point where I needed to make a decision on either crippling my current game for sake of the experiment, or retain my perfectly acceptable level of play (decades of doing). Like all things pool, decisions should be based on risk/reward. While I have zero doubt CTE has helped many people. I just didn't want to toss endless years of refinement in the bin on the off chance it might make me <5% stronger at potting a ball
 
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Center-to-edge is probably the most common "orientation" alignment. It's the most easily seen and arguably the most useful, being right in the middle of the range of cut angles. Aiming systems use it, and, as you say, it's also useful simply as a consistent starting alignment.

pj
chgo
This has been my point for a long time. I have mentioned this dozens of times but I did a diagram which showed that the center to edge line and the actual ghost ball line are less than half a millimeter away from each as they exit the cueball. Actually in for most shots even closer at least than quarter of a millimeter.

So I think we all can agree that the center to edge line is objective and that most people would be able to put their cue on that line accurately. With that as a given and the fact that the unknown ghost ball shot line is so very close to the known center to edge line in the space that the shooter is addressing we could confidently say that just using this orientation and nothing else is likely to produce a higher level of shotmaking by virtue of the subconscious having a very tiny space to go from cte line to shot line.

Tommy Kennedy once said that he starts at full ball and moves into the direction of the cut and stops when it feels right. That is an example of having a consistent and objective starting point and training your feel from a solid baseline imo.

Now, if you add a few more objective reference lines can they help to reduce the work that the subconscious does and actually give the shooter a fully conscious process to get to the shot line? I think the answer is yes and I feel that the cte method does this.
 
This is where I stalled when trying to grasp CTE. I got to a point where I needed to make a decision on either crippling my current game for sake of the experiment, or retain my perfectly acceptable level of play (decades of doing). Like all things pool, decisions should be based on risk/reward. While I have zero doubt CTE has helped many people. I just didn't want to toss endless years of refinement in the bin on the off chance it might make me <5% stronger at potting a ball
Not a blessed thing wrong with your decision. (y)
It doesn't matter what one does or uses for their game as long as they're happy with the end result. No guns are put to any heads to force change.
As far as I'm concerned, I didn't think there was anything to lose and more to gain. Glad I did.
To each their own.
Selah.
 
This is where I stalled when trying to grasp CTE. I got to a point where I needed to make a decision on either crippling my current game for sake of the experiment, or retain my perfectly acceptable level of play (decades of doing). Like all things pool, decisions should be based on risk/reward. While I have zero doubt CTE has helped many people. I just didn't want to toss endless years of refinement in the bin on the off chance it might make me <5% stronger at potting a ball
How would you have crippled your game? Because of changing your approach?

You added a percentage of increased pocketing so let's assume for the sake of discussion that you really did get 5% increase in pocketing ability. Do you feel that you would have become worse in some other aspect like playing shape which would presumably have meant that you would have more difficult shots and more difficult patterns?

What if you gained 5% more pocketing ability and no loss in any other aspect of the game? Would that have been worth it?

What does 5% more shotmaking mean anyway? Does it mean that you have increased your ability to make any shot you face by 5% or that you will make 5% more shots out of a hundred than you previously could.

I don't agree that you would have crippled your game. However I can certainly understand your concern.
 
...just using this orientation and nothing else is likely to produce a higher level of shotmaking by virtue of the subconscious having a very tiny space to go from cte line to shot line.
Except you don't use the tip/CB contact point to aim - you aim by looking at where the CB needs to go. Your 1/2 mm range on the CB = 1/4" per diamond distance from CB to OB (1" over 4 diamonds) - that's what aiming deals with.

The tiny tip/CB contact point range isn't an aiming advantage; it's a stroke challenge - no matter what aiming method you use.

Now, if you add a few more objective reference lines can they help to reduce the work that the subconscious does and actually give the shooter a fully conscious process to get to the shot line? I think the answer is yes and I feel that the cte method does this.
Using the center-to-edge line along with the fractions line is the one thing about CTE that intrigues me. If I was a fractions aimer I might try incorporating it. I agree it's a good "anchor" alignment for any aiming method, but I think CTE overcomplicates its use.

pj
chgo
 
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In my opinion, there has never been a CTE Student that was as "slow in the brain" as me. However I learned to use Basic CTE with the manual pivot, CTE Pro One, and am now studying Disguised Pivoting. Please don't sell yourself short in the "smarts" department. You can do it also. If I can do it, ANYBODY can.
CTE is very odd in the beginning because it requires a "reprogramming" of the eyes and the way we view spheres on a pool table surface. Some guys grasp it right away....I was not one of those. It took me some time because I had decades of un-learning to do.
You mentioned you like to spin the ball. CTE in no way requires you to give up using english (spin). Mr. Shuffett has free videos available on YouTube dealing with that exact subject of how to use spin. Just because CTE is taught as a center axis playing method does not prevent you from using inside english, outside english, high, low left, low right, etc. etc.
I'm just offering you some encouragement here. The method does work though and I hope you can work it out. The satisfaction shoots your confidence through the roof because you will KNOW you're at least aiming at the shot in the right way. NO Guesswork and no imagining invisible ghosty balls down there somewhere.
That's "one less bell to answer" when playing the game...especially under pressure
But if you feel, after maybe 30-40 hours of work at the table, you're still spinning your wheels and not improving...then by all means just let it go and try another aiming method. Brian Crist's Poolology works like a charm in his hands.
Frustration can be an annoying thing and pool should be FUN. (although it's a lot more fun when you pick off some cash and hear the railbirds collapse over there when they're shouting and pulling against you):)
Good wishes to you. (y)
Pete Lowenstein
(Low500)
My post was from 6 months ago so I don't know why you and JB are dragging it out now. My post was almost 100% TIC which was probably understood by everyone of average intelligence other than you two. The only part I was serious about was the videos are confusing and the system is poorly presented, not to mention, boring. The guys like a broken record.
 
Except your subconscious doesn't use the tip/CB contact point to aim - you aim by looking at where the CB needs to contact the OB. Your 1/2 mm range on the CB = 1/4" per diamond distance from CB to OB (1" over 4 diamonds) - that's what aiming deals with.

The tiny tip/CB contact point range isn't an aiming advantage; it's a stroke challenge - no matter what aiming method you use.


Using the center-to-edge line along with the fractions line is the one thing about CTE that intrigues me. If I was a fractions aimer I might try incorporating it. I agree it's a good "anchor" alignment for any aiming method, but I think CTE overcomplicates its use.

pj
chgo
Can you please share the research that indicates what the subconscious does as pertains to pool?

Maybe you aim using contact points but cte aimers don't and don't need to.
 
My post was from 6 months ago so I don't know why you and JB are dragging it out now. My post was almost 100% TIC which was probably understood by everyone of average intelligence other than you two. The only part I was serious about was the videos are confusing and the system is poorly presented, not to mention, boring. The guys like a broken record.
Is there a time limit? Don't use what you don't like.

Doesn't mean that we can't discuss anything we feel like addressing when we feel like it.
 
My post was from 6 months ago so I don't know why you and JB are dragging it out now. My post was almost 100% TIC which was probably understood by everyone of average intelligence other than you two. The only part I was serious about was the videos are confusing and the system is poorly presented, not to mention, boring. The guys like a broken record.
Well, looks like I offended you in some way.
Didn't mean to do that.
I'm trying not to show my below average intelligence. I will do better at that.
TY for calling that to my attention.
Would you like for me to delete my post? Just say the word and I'll send it into the trash bin of the cyberworld.
Won't offend me a bit.
Again...just say the word and it's a goner.
Regards,
Lowenstein.
(Low500)
 
This is where I stalled when trying to grasp CTE. I got to a point where I needed to make a decision on either crippling my current game for sake of the experiment, or retain my perfectly acceptable level of play (decades of doing). Like all things pool, decisions should be based on risk/reward. While I have zero doubt CTE has helped many people. I just didn't want to toss endless years of refinement in the bin on the off chance it might make me <5% stronger at potting a ball
I'm smarter 'cause I got this directly from the description. :D CTE requires "rhetorical" re-methodizing to somehow accomplish what seems like less than accomplished players' ingrained ability. CTE does interfere with shooting technique though - to the degree that one may have to rebuild their already refined technique.
 
How would you have crippled your game? Because of changing your approach?
Any time you attempt to alter what you have grown accustomed to, you will experience a drop in original performance until the change has been integrated fully and hopefully allows you to regain at least your former level of success. This isn't a CTE thing. It's an adopting something different thing. I also experienced a drop in performance for a short period when I forced myself to hold focus on the OB last, rather than darting back and forth.

"Crippling" my game is of course my subjective opinion on how much I would expect to fall off from original form, and how long it would take to regain it by either gaining proficiency in the new method, or reverting back to the old habits.
You added a percentage of increased pocketing so let's assume for the sake of discussion that you really did get 5% increase in pocketing ability. Do you feel that you would have become worse in some other aspect like playing shape which would presumably have meant that you would have more difficult shots and more difficult patterns?
Yes, lets not dwell on the value of '5'. However, no I don't. If I miss a ball then shape doesn't matter. If I make the ball, I would expect the same type of shape I would have normally achieved.
What if you gained 5% more pocketing ability and no loss in any other aspect of the game? Would that have been worth it?
If someone said to me that I would not have to change anything regarding any aspect of how I shoot and still gain 5%, then yes it would be worth it. However that's not the case. I would have to deviate from my engrained approach to aim/stroke (pivots) to develop my CTE skills. A 5% gain is not enough for me to break out of my comfort zone.
What does 5% more shotmaking mean anyway? Does it mean that you have increased your ability to make any shot you face by 5% or that you will make 5% more shots out of a hundred than you previously could.
Good question
I don't agree that you would have crippled your game. However I can certainly understand your concern.
You're more than entitled to your opinion but you don't know the nuances of my game and the level of play that I expect from myself, so your thoughts really hold no water in this regard. "Concern" is a strong word honestly. I really just wanted to give CTE an equal shake to my minimal effort with Poolology. Once I realized I'd have to revamp my process to do so, then my indifference simply took over.
 
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