McDermott Defy Carbon Shaft Issues

[rostym]

I purchased a Defy carbon shaft recently and have some issues that I'd like help understanding. The first was that screwing the shaft onto the butt (a 1983 Richard Black with 3/8x10 pin) was very difficult. It was tight from the start, but got harder and harder to twist on the further the pin was in the shaft. Once all the way in, I chalked the tip and got ready for my first shot with the shaft. As I stroked it getting ready to shoot, I felt something loose inside the shaft that would move back and forth as I stroked. That's the second issue. My first thought was a weight was inside and it had come loose. Looking online I found that a few others had the issue of something inside moving back and forth. McDermott stated that it was something glued in place in the shaft that is part of their dampening system. I contacted the seller and he agreed to send me another shaft and deal with McDermott regarding the warranty/repair of the shaft.

The things that I'd like to understand are is it unusual that the shaft was so difficult to screw onto the butt? I am familiar with trying to screw incorrect threads together, but if that were the case there is no way that it could have been screwed all the way in. The shafts for Richard Black cues only came in 3/8x10 and 5/16x14. My butt pin protrudes almost exactly 1" from the butt base and there are 10 threads showing, so I am sure that it cannot be 14 TPI. I think possibly the fact that the insert is some sort of plastic that it's supposed to be a tight fit, and mine is just a little tighter than normal due to mfg tolerances. Or, possibly it's made to initially be tight and would get easier over time. My other question, is it possible that the pin pushed the dampening insert loose (by extending too far into the shaft) and that is partially responsible for why it was so hard to twist when the pin got close to being fully inserted. Any help with these would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JoeyInCali]

There are too many varieties of 3/8 10.

 

[dendweller]

I purchased a Defy carbon shaft recently and have some issues that I'd like help understanding. The first was that screwing the shaft onto the butt (a 1983 Richard Black with 3/8x10 pin) was very difficult. It was tight from the start, but got harder and harder to twist on the further the pin was in the shaft. Once all the way in, I chalked the tip and got ready for my first shot with the shaft. As I stroked it getting ready to shoot, I felt something loose inside the shaft that would move back and forth as I stroked. That's the second issue. My first thought was a weight was inside and it had come loose. Looking online I found that a few others had the issue of something inside moving back and forth. McDermott stated that it was something glued in place in the shaft that is part of their dampening system. I contacted the seller and he agreed to send me another shaft and deal with McDermott regarding the warranty/repair of the shaft.

The things that I'd like to understand are is it unusual that the shaft was so difficult to screw onto the butt? I am familiar with trying to screw incorrect threads together, but if that were the case there is no way that it could have been screwed all the way in. The shafts for Richard Black cues only came in 3/8x10 and 5/16x14. My butt pin protrudes almost exactly 1" from the butt base and there are 10 threads showing, so I am sure that it cannot be 14 TPI. I think possibly the fact that the insert is some sort of plastic that it's supposed to be a tight fit, and mine is just a little tighter than normal due to mfg tolerances. Or, possibly it's made to initially be tight and would get easier over time. My other question, is it possible that the pin pushed the dampening insert loose (by extending too far into the shaft) and that is partially responsible for why it was so hard to twist when the pin got close to being fully inserted. Any help with these would be greatly appreciated.

I've had a lot of 3/8 10 cues and I wouldn't consider 1 inch to be long for that pin. In fact I had a mcdermott, pretty sure that was better than an inch. I doubt you pushed anything loose with it.

 

[rostym]

There are too many varieties of 3/8 10.

I didn't realize that was the case for cue pins. I realize that they could have different thread angles and depths, and different helix angles but I assumed that they would be standards used for cue pins. How does one determine the thread type to order on a carbon shaft. I've never heard of issues with this and any forums I've read. Are there names of the different pin configurations for different pins with the same dia and threads per inch?

 

[rostym]

So I contacted Richard Black and he tells me he uses the standard 3/8x10 pin for cues. Not sure why screwing on the shaft would have been difficult or what that issue might have been.

 

[HawaiianEye]

So I contacted Richard Black and he tells me he uses the standard 3/8x10 pin for cues. Not sure why screwing on the shaft would have been difficult or what that issue might have been.

Maybe your cue is telling you something.

I had Richard make me two cues.

The cue is telling you to play with the original shafts.

 

[gregnice37]

Some shafts or pins not made by the same company or maker need like beeswax or something to make it fit easier. Came across the same issue when the ob cf shaft wouldn't go completely together with a 5/14x18 butt I had. Beeswax fixed the issue easily. No more super tight fit.

The noise was definitely something coming loose inside the shaft. The rogue had same issue when they 1st came out.

 

[plane_o]

I ordered a defy with a 3/8-10 joint, waited 11 month for it, then could NOT screw it all the way down on a Mcdermott D5, D8 or OB Cue all with 3/8-10 pins. It started out difficult then and got to the point where I was unable to finish the last 2-3 turns. I'm in my late 60's and have arthritis in my hands. I called Mcdermott and was told they are now using a different style 3/8-10 pin/joint. Was told to work the shaft on/off and it would eventually work on the older style 3/8-10 joints. Went to the local pool room and had a younger player screw the shaft on/off 25-30 times before I could finally do it. After putting it on/off myself 700-800 times it still difficult to finish the last 2-3 turns.

I like the way the shaft played and ordered another one. Same issue. I called Mcdermott and they provided me a UPS shipping label. I sent the 2nd shaft back to Mcdermott along with the D5 butt and they did something. The 2nd shaft now screws on the D5, D8 and OB butts with no problems.

I've used several different shafts on these butts (Mcdermott maple, G-core, I-3 shafts. OB shafts, Predator shafts and Hsunami shafts) and never had this problem except with the Defy..

 

[rostym]

Thanks for relating the experiences with the tight fits. That makes me feel better. I was going to try screwing it on using graphite had I reason to screw it on again. Beeswax sounds better. I guess another possibility would be to get a 3/8x10 tap and to run it through. I don't know the actual reason, but after hearing others have the same problem, I think possibly when the tap is made on the plastic insert, it compresses the plastic some rather than just cutting it and after some time it expands a bit making it an interference fit when the butt is screwed in later, which of course would make it harder to screw in and out. I have another coming and we'll see how that works out.

 

[Michael Webb]

Thanks for relating the experiences with the tight fits. That makes me feel better. I was going to try screwing it on using graphite had I reason to screw it on again. Beeswax sounds better. I guess another possibility would be to get a 3/8x10 tap and to run it through. I don't know the actual reason, but after hearing others have the same problem, I think possibly when the tap is made on the plastic insert, it compresses the plastic some rather than just cutting it and after some time it expands a bit making it an interference fit when the butt is screwed in later, which of course would make it harder to screw in and out. I have another coming and we'll see how that works out.

Good morning
It is very common for shafts with other inserts than wood, fit tight. There are a few versions of 3/8x10 screws. What that means is that the minor between the threads varies. McDermott started using inserts in some of thier wood shafts along with thier c/f shafts. They are machined tight fit. If you have a cue mechanic who understands this, he/or she can help by measuring the i.d. of the hole and run a tap in.
Examples

 

[rostym]

Thanks! I don't know a cue mechanic in this area (greater New Orleans) but I'll see if I can find one if the next shaft I get is tight as well.

 

[cueman]

Your shaft needs retapped or drilled larger or both.

 

[Mobiker]

The last time I bought a shaft from McDermott, they asked me to ship them the butt to insure a proper fit. You might want to talk directly with them.

 

[Scratch85]

In my experience, if you purchased the shaft from McDermott, they will re-tap the shaft to fit your butt for free. You will have to send them your shaft and butt but my experiences with McDermott have always gone well. If you want a newer pin that will fit most modern 3/8x10 shafts, they will do that also but they will charge you. I recently had McDermott replace the pin on my RS-1 so all my shafts would fit and I am pleased with the results. I have an older D-10 that I'm not willing to alter but no newer shafts will fit it.

 

[briankenobi]

As many have already said, a 3/8-10 from the 80's is not going to be the same 3/8-10 of today. It is easily remedied though.

 

[briankenobi]

I ordered a defy with a 3/8-10 joint, waited 11 month for it, then could NOT screw it all the way down on a Mcdermott D5, D8 or OB Cue all with 3/8-10 pins. It started out difficult then and got to the point where I was unable to finish the last 2-3 turns. I'm in my late 60's and have arthritis in my hands. I called Mcdermott and was told they are now using a different style 3/8-10 pin/joint. Was told to work the shaft on/off and it would eventually work on the older style 3/8-10 joints. Went to the local pool room and had a younger player screw the shaft on/off 25-30 times before I could finally do it. After putting it on/off myself 700-800 times it still difficult to finish the last 2-3 turns.

I like the way the shaft played and ordered another one. Same issue. I called Mcdermott and they provided me a UPS shipping label. I sent the 2nd shaft back to Mcdermott along with the D5 butt and they did something. The 2nd shaft now screws on the D5, D8 and OB butts with no problems.

I've used several different shafts on these butts (Mcdermott maple, G-core, I-3 shafts. OB shafts, Predator shafts and Hsunami shafts) and never had this problem except with the Defy..

They have a video on their website about their process. Towards the end of the video they show the process on why they suggest sending the butt in so they can get a perfect fit.

 

[Chili Palmer]

Is it possible they are using a tight fitting tap on the new shaft?

 

[briankenobi]

Is it possible they are using a tight fitting tap on the new shaft?

all of their shafts fit good a newer cues with a 3/8-10 pin. anything back in the 80's would be an issue.

 

[rostym]

Well, I just got a replacement for the Defy that I received that was defective. It's a Jacoby Black and it screws on perfect to my early 80's Richard Black. Not loose, but definitely not too tight. I think some of the carbon shafts will have tight joints regardless.

 

[Thunder Thighs]

So how do you like the Black?