APA foul?

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DryFlyTrout

Well-known member
A friend was explaining something that happened Saturday at an APA tournament.
Instead of shooting the cue ball, a player shot the 8 ball. The 8 ball hit another ball but the cue ball never moved. I was told there were several LOs in attendance. The LO that was called over said it wasn't a foul, reset the balls, and allowed the player to shot again. They missed the 8 ball. My friend said he talked to the local LO afterword and he said he would have called it a foul.

Based on my understanding, APA is cue ball fouls only. If player A bumps a ball(s) player B can reset them as best as possible or leave them. Doesn't matter if it's their hand, shaft, tip...

FWIW, shooting an object ball is a foul in my opinion. I don't make APA rules though.
 
I would venture to say, if it was intentional that's one thing, if not intentional that's another thing. If I knew the player I would have a better idea if it was a foul or not.

If they were drunk, foul.
 
DryFlyTrout said:
... Instead of shooting the cue ball, a player shot the 8 ball. The 8 ball hit another ball but the cue ball never moved. ...
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In some rule sets this is an absolutely forbidden shot. Depending on the ref/TD the player might be disqualified from the event.

You are not allowed to intentionally hit the object balls directly with your cue stick. It is not part of the game. It is not pool.

You did not make it clear whether the player did this intentionally. If it was intentional, he should have at least lost the game.
 
Chili Palmer said:
I would venture to say, if it was intentional that's one thing, if not intentional that's another thing. If I knew the player I would have a better idea if it was a foul or not.

If they were drunk, foul.
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Based on APA rules I don't believe intention means a thing. I don't know the player who did it either. The way it was explained to me, it was a mistake. They were on the 8, probably got a little excited, and shot the 8 before they realized.
 
DryFlyTrout said:
Based on APA rules I don't believe intention means a thing. I don't know the player who did it either. The way it was explained to me, it was a mistake. They were on the 8, probably got a little excited, and shot the 8 before they realized.
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Believe me, intent has a lot to do with it. I have not played APA for about a year but I had this conversation with our LO a few times. Read the rules, I believe they say "if an object ball is 'accidentally' moved", key word - accidentally - if it is intentional it is a foul.
 
APA Foul? Yes, yes they are.
I don't think the situation meets the cueball foul rule since that is incidental and accidental contact during a legal shot where moving one ball is forgiven. This was not even a legal shot they were doing, thus not a "cueball foul only". It's the same thing as grabbing a ball and moving it with your hand, mistake or not. One situation is a by-product of a shot, the other is the shot itself. Using another ball as a cueball must be a foul no matter what planet we are on, even in loose league rules, I mean it's totally against the core rules of the game, strike the cueball to make the other balls. If even that is OK to ignore what is left?
 
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No foul.

Intent is not in the rule book. Rather, sportsmanship is.

I have seen teams tell a player they understand a mistake touching a cue ball with their hand when they were trying to put an accidentally moved object ball. After all, se want beginners to like the game and grow in it.

Now, before going off on APA, ask yourself how you would grow the game.
 
Chili Palmer said:
Believe me, intent has a lot to do with it. I have not played APA for about a year but I had this conversation with our LO a few times. Read the rules, I believe they say "if an object ball is 'accidentally' moved", key word - accidentally - if it is intentional it is a foul.
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Accidentally moved is bumped with your hand or shirt or something . Not using it as the cue ball lol if that’s the case if I bump the cue ball with my tip while aiming I can say whoops… it was an accident lol
 
DryFlyTrout said:
A friend was explaining something that happened Saturday at an APA tournament.
Instead of shooting the cue ball, a player shot the 8 ball. The 8 ball hit another ball but the cue ball never moved. I was told there were several LOs in attendance. The LO that was called over said it wasn't a foul, reset the balls, and allowed the player to shot again. They missed the 8 ball. My friend said he talked to the local LO afterword and he said he would have called it a foul.

Based on my understanding, APA is cue ball fouls only. If player A bumps a ball(s) player B can reset them as best as possible or leave them. Doesn't matter if it's their hand, shaft, tip...

FWIW, shooting an object ball is a foul in my opinion. I don't make APA rules though.
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O.K. I've followed this thread and lurked so far because I've never played APA. But, I'm just trying to make sense of what happened, so I have to ask:

It sounds like the person was on the 8-ball and supposed to be shooting it into a pocket to win (i.e., they had already made all of their balls except for the 8-ball)? If so, when they were given a second chance to shoot again, did they then shoot the cue ball at the 8-ball and try to pocket it for the win and missed? If so, this should be complete unadulterated hogwash in anyone's rule book.

And, if the above is true, when they originally shot the 8-ball "accidentally" thinking it was the cue ball, what the heck did they shoot at and what ball were they calling? Because, the only other balls on the table would have been the cue ball and the opponent's balls? And, since the cue ball didn't move and they contacted other ball(s), they must have been shooting at one of the opponent's balls or trying to just shoot the 8-ball directly into a pocket or miscued?

What am I missing?
 
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WoodyJ said:
O.K. I've followed this thread and lurked so far because I've never played APA. But, I'm just trying to make sense of what happened, so I have to ask:

It sounds like the person was on the 8-ball and supposed to be shooting it into a pocket to win (i.e., they had already made all of their balls except for the 8-ball)? If so, when they were given a second chance to shoot again, did they then shoot the cue ball at the 8-ball and try to pocket it for the win and missed? If so, this should be complete unadulterated hogwash in anyone's rule book.

And, if the above is true, when they originally shot the 8-ball "accidentally" thinking it was the cue ball, what the heck did they shoot at and what ball were they calling? Because, the only other balls on the table would have been the cue ball and the opponent's balls? And, since the cue ball didn't move and they contacted other ball(s), they must have been shooting at one of the opponent's balls or trying to just shoot the 8-ball directly into a pocket or miscued?

What am I missing?
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I'm curious about that also.
 
That rule is for bumping a ball with your hand/stick by accident, shooting the eight ball is a foul
the way I would see it. I think they stretched the rule on that one.
 
Not a foul on APA. Even if done intentionally it still is not a foul.

However it is a sportsmanship violation, which depending on the circumstances can result in a warning, ball in hand for opponent, loss of game, or loss of match.
 
Sounds like they were were aiming on the 8b and then shot the 8b directly with out using the CB. The 8b also hit other balls still in play.

In my league If this was an accident, and the 8 was just nudged with minimal ball movement than no foul and opponent has chance to reset balls. If this was on purpose out of anger or meant to gain an advantage because he was hooked etc, than could be a sportsmanship foul.

I thought Cueball fouls only rule had a limit on how much the table was changed by accidentally sweeping into other balls. Something like more than two balls disturbed and/or movement of two feet ? Or is that only bca and apa has a different rule set for it ?

Woody is right in that the original post is missing important details to understand the situation.
 
Shooting the eight ball instead of the cue ball is a brain fart and not accidental movement
of a ball which is what the rule is for. That should have been a shot and the other players turn.
That's just crazy to put it back and replay it.
 
WoodyJ said:
O.K. I've followed this thread and lurked so far because I've never played APA. But, I'm just trying to make sense of what happened, so I have to ask:

It sounds like the person was on the 8-ball and supposed to be shooting it into a pocket to win (i.e., they had already made all of their balls except for the 8-ball)? If so, when they were given a second chance to shoot again, did they then shoot the cue ball at the 8-ball and try to pocket it for the win and missed? If so, this should be complete unadulterated hogwash in anyone's rule book.

And, if the above is true, when they originally shot the 8-ball "accidentally" thinking it was the cue ball, what the heck did they shoot at and what ball were they calling? Because, the only other balls on the table would have been the cue ball and the opponent's balls? And, since the cue ball didn't move and they contacted other ball(s), they must have been shooting at one of the opponent's balls or trying to just shoot the 8-ball directly into a pocket or miscued?

What am I missing?
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Maybe they are playing with one of those new weird color ball sets and the 8 ball has a white side and the 9 ball has a black side?
 
NathanDetroit said:
No foul.

Intent is not in the rule book. Rather, sportsmanship is.

I have seen teams tell a player they understand a mistake touching a cue ball with their hand when they were trying to put an accidentally moved object ball. After all, se want beginners to like the game and grow in it.

Now, before going off on APA, ask yourself how you would grow the game.
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Rules are still in the games. Our junior league teaches 8 yr olds the proper rules, and when kids go to tournaments the refs there enforce the rules. If kids can learn and use the rules there is no reason to simply forgive carelessness in the APA or any other organization.
 
WoodyJ said:
O.K. I've followed this thread and lurked so far because I've never played APA. But, I'm just trying to make sense of what happened, so I have to ask:

It sounds like the person was on the 8-ball and supposed to be shooting it into a pocket to win (i.e., they had already made all of their balls except for the 8-ball)? If so, when they were given a second chance to shoot again, did they then shoot the cue ball at the 8-ball and try to pocket it for the win and missed? If so, this should be complete unadulterated hogwash in anyone's rule book.

And, if the above is true, when they originally shot the 8-ball "accidentally" thinking it was the cue ball, what the heck did they shoot at and what ball were they calling? Because, the only other balls on the table would have been the cue ball and the opponent's balls? And, since the cue ball didn't move and they contacted other ball(s), they must have been shooting at one of the opponent's balls or trying to just shoot the 8-ball directly into a pocket or miscued?

What am I missing?
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Something like this happened to me a just last week. It was on the 4 ball though. Some people pretend to shoot the object ball to see where the exact contact point should be before moving to the cue ball to aim at that spot. My opponent aimed up on the 4 ball, but then forgot to move to the cue ball and just shot. It was a foul and I got ball in hand. Note we were not playing APA, but as I see it a legal shot is hitting the cue ball into an object ball. Not hitting the cue ball would be a cue ball foul.
 
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