final backswing to tip-cb contact..how long should it be?

i was fortunate to take a lesson with mark wilson
he made this comment which has stuck with me
"since you have been here have i ever told you your backswing was TOO SLOW " 😉
 
bbb said:
i was fortunate to take a lesson with mark wilson
he made this comment which has stuck with me
"since you have been here have i ever told you your backswing was TOO SLOW " 😉
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If he made that comment, I'd likely nod off watching you.
This reminds me since there's a Walt Harris book thread in the main forum.
He somehow got stats on how long a player takes to decide what shot to take.
I don't remember exactly but..... Something like:
Beginner 4 seconds
Intermediate 7 seconds
Shortstop 9 seconds
Pro 15 seconds
 
3kushn said:
If he made that comment, I'd likely nod off watching you.
This reminds me since there's a Walt Harris book thread in the main forum.
He somehow got stats on how long a player takes to decide what shot to take.
I don't remember exactly but..... Something like:
Beginner 4 seconds
Intermediate 7 seconds
Shortstop 9 seconds
Pro 15 seconds
Click to expand...
I think you misunderstood the point of my post
mark was trying to tell me my backswing was too fast
slow to me was too fast for him
 
bbb said:
I think you misunderstood the point of my post
mark was trying to tell me my backswing was too fast
slow to me was too fast for him
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No I got it, especially after Fran's comment.
 
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3kushn said:
If he made that comment, I'd likely nod off watching you.
This reminds me since there's a Walt Harris book thread in the main forum.
He somehow got stats on how long a player takes to decide what shot to take.
I don't remember exactly but..... Something like:
Beginner 4 seconds
Intermediate 7 seconds
Shortstop 9 seconds
Pro 15 seconds
Click to expand...
Well, I'm not sure about the number of seconds a pro takes because it varies, depending on the layout. They may shoot a few shots in a row very quickly and other shots may require more time. Maybe someone did some calculations and the average turned out to be 15 seconds.

Beginners almost always take less time, but once a player enters the intermediate level and starts to improve, and wants to continue to improve, they often take even more time than a pro because they're trying hard to make the right decisions but they don't have a high level of knowledge, so they wind up taking more time trying to figure things out. Another reason intermediate players take more time is because their position skills aren't fine tuned yet and the cue ball often doesn't wind up where they plan, so they have to evaluate the situation again.
 
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FranCrimi said:
Well, I'm not sure about the number of seconds a pro takes because it varies, depending on the layout. They may shoot a few shots in a row very quickly and other shots may require more time. Maybe someone did some calculations and the average turned out to be 15 seconds.

Beginners almost always take less time, but once a player enters the intermediate level and starts to improve, and wants to continue to improve, they often take even more time than a pro because they're trying hard to make the right decisions but they don't have a high level of knowledge, so they wind up taking more time trying to figure things out. Another reason intermediate players take more time is because their position skills aren't fine tuned yet and the cue ball often doesn't wind up where they plan, so they have to evaluate the situation again.
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Fran, the Walt Harris books are about 3Cushion. As you know opportunities to shoot for position in that game only come up every so often, maybe every 5 or so shots. This is why, I think a pro would take more time than lesser players.

Taking this argument to the game of pool, I'm guessing a Pro would take more time (on average) after the break shot than a lesser player. Maybe the shot after that, then after the 1st or 2nd ball is struck, a Pro is usually within their plan of attack, barring an unusual break layout, and then they fall into the rhythm you're describing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is in Pool (in a perfect world) the break shot is the only shot with a random outcome. In 3Cushion even if a shot is played for position and is played extremely well, a successful outcome is achieving the desired pattern(s) rather than perfectly placing all 3 balls exactly on 3 silver dollars.
 
3kushn said:
Fran, the Walt Harris books are about 3Cushion. As you know opportunities to shoot for position in that game only come up every so often, maybe every 5 or so shots. This is why, I think a pro would take more time than lesser players.

Taking this argument to the game of pool, I'm guessing a Pro would take more time (on average) after the break shot than a lesser player. Maybe the shot after that, then after the 1st or 2nd ball is struck, a Pro is usually within their plan of attack, barring an unusual break layout, and then they fall into the rhythm you're describing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is in Pool (in a perfect world) the break shot is the only shot with a random outcome. In 3Cushion even if a shot is played for position and is played extremely well, a successful outcome is achieving the desired pattern(s) rather than perfectly placing all 3 balls exactly on 3 silver dollars.
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​

According to Webster's dictionary, 'random' means a haphazard course without definite aim, direction, rule or method.

Is it still a random outcome if you can break the balls in a way to plan where the cue ball or the head ball will wind up? Is it still a random outcome if familiar patterns are present after the break that an experienced player will recognize at just a quick glance?

​

 
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FranCrimi said:

​

According to Webster's dictionary, 'random' means a haphazard course without definite aim, direction, rule or method.

Is it still a random outcome if you can break the balls in a way to plan where the cue ball or the head ball will wind up? Is it still a random outcome if familiar patterns are present after the break that an experienced player will recognize at just a quick glance?

​

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OK Fran, I'm going to bite after thinking whether or not.
I think this is an example of where forums get side tracked. I'm just reading words and sometimes I don't know.... is this person pissed or just having fun.

I'll take it we're just having fun. It's the only reason I ever type a single word here, unless someone claims my mother wore army boots, then I'll come out of my happy space, then there won't be any doubt!

OK so I quit for the most part playing with pockets around 1995? at the suggestion of my 3 Cushion mentor. "There's very few Pro's for both games". Choose!

I'm just saying, I haven't studied the Break or really anything Pool for a long time. It just seems the shot after the Break is the closest thing to 3Cushion as it relates to our new topic of how long to decide the next shot.

I've watched many Pro pool matches where the CB doesn't act as planned, or the rack or both. Of course a Pro has more tools

I am starting to get the pool itch again after all these years.
 
3kushn said:
OK Fran, I'm going to bite after thinking whether or not.
I think this is an example of where forums get side tracked. I'm just reading words and sometimes I don't know.... is this person pissed or just having fun.

I'll take it we're just having fun. It's the only reason I ever type a single word here, unless someone claims my mother wore army boots, then I'll come out of my happy space, then there won't be any doubt!

OK so I quit for the most part playing with pockets around 1995? at the suggestion of my 3 Cushion mentor. "There's very few Pro's for both games". Choose!

I'm just saying, I haven't studied the Break or really anything Pool for a long time. It just seems the shot after the Break is the closest thing to 3Cushion as it relates to our new topic of how long to decide the next shot.

I've watched many Pro pool matches where the CB doesn't act as planned, or the rack or both. Of course a Pro has more tools

I am starting to get the pool itch again after all these years.
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LOL, no I'm not angry at all. You used the word 'random' in reference to the break. I was just saying that I'm not so sure 'random' is the correct word when speaking about a high level player breaking. There are some things that can be controlled by the player, and there are also patterns after the break that will jump out easily to a seasoned player. I've watched Johnny Archer break with the cue ball and one ball winding up in the same spot on the table, give or take 6 inches, for the entire set, which he won. Corey Duel turned break shots into a science. I have had break moments in my own pool life where I was able to control both the cue ball and the one ball's positions. Joe Tucker's book on racking is also very revealing.
 
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evergruven said:
"Research has discovered that less experienced and skilled players use between .4-.8 seconds from beginning the final backswing until the cue tip impacts the cue ball, professional players use 1.2-1.8 seconds for the same movement."

agree or ?

source: https://playgreatpool.com/timing-rhythm-precision-striking/
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No one hits the ball with their backswing, and if you want to pause at the end of the backswing for a quiet eyes confirmation of the line, or perhaps for a restroom or coffee break, go for it. :)
 
BilliardsAbout said:
No one hits the ball with their backswing, and if you want to pause at the end of the backswing for a quiet eyes confirmation of the line, or perhaps for a restroom or coffee break, go for it. :)
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Are you trying to be clever here? I'm not seeing any cleverness. What's your point?
 
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