Consistency in shafts with firm, dead-center strikes on cue ball?

Rachel T said:
Interesting test! Seems it would be hard to get a consistent drop, assuming I'm understanding the test correctly.
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I hold the stick with thumb and index finger near the butt. It helps to stand on something but isn't necessary. When the stick stops swinging, just release. It takes a little bit of patience; almost a skill unto itself. :)
 
Rachel T. Howdy;

Went to Meucci's site and found this page of videos he did with his machine v. other's
shafts. Bear in mind that with a 'Natural' product such as wood, each would be 'different'.
Slightly but different all the same.

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hank
 
golf and pool are alike, the average and bad players are always looking for and buying the newest gadgets and equipemnt to improve their game. instead of just improving their game.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I was wondering this, too. On vertical axis hits, I was not getting the accuracy out of my 314. A traditional solid maple shaft worked well and I picked up a carbon shaft that also delivers. I don't know what factors are affecting this. If my stroke was crooked, I would expect an LD shaft to be less inaccurate, unless my understanding of deflection doesn't apply. I don't see how my technique on vertical axis shots works better with a stiffer shaft. I don't know if the tip, assuming it's not misshapen would cause this. I don't think the placebo effect is that important because I didn't remember what shaft I was using until I dogged a bunch of shots. I do know that those "maybe" shots are "fighting chance" with the stiffer shafts and "what made you think that was a good idea?" with the more flexible shafts.
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Well low deflection can’t hold up to a solid hit. It’s too weak/light up front and on a harder hit automatically deflects on impact if off center at all. Deflects to easiest direction if you will. A solid shaft is heavier up front and won’t go off path as easily.
 
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Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Well low deflection can’t hold up to a solid hit. It’s too weak/light up front and on a harder hit automatically deflects on impact if off center at all. Deflects to easiest direction if you will. A solid shaft is heavier up front and won’t go off path as easily.
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Certainly makes sense!
 
maha said:
golf and pool are alike, the average and bad players are always looking for and buying the newest gadgets and equipemnt to improve their game. instead of just improving their game.
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I'm looking to improve my golf and pool game through practice, which includes attention to good fundamentals; however, I wouldn't want to play golf with a hickory shaft. I feel my golf game would be better with graphite or steel shafts vs. hickory, even though I have no evidence to prove that.
 
tomatoshooter said:
I was wondering this, too. On vertical axis hits, I was not getting the accuracy out of my 314. A traditional solid maple shaft worked well and I picked up a carbon shaft that also delivers. I don't know what factors are affecting this. If my stroke was crooked, I would expect an LD shaft to be less inaccurate, unless my understanding of deflection doesn't apply. I don't see how my technique on vertical axis shots works better with a stiffer shaft. I don't know if the tip, assuming it's not misshapen would cause this. I don't think the placebo effect is that important because I didn't remember what shaft I was using until I dogged a bunch of shots. I do know that those "maybe" shots are "fighting chance" with the stiffer shafts and "what made you think that was a good idea?" with the more flexible shafts.
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Its your bridge length. You need to make it longer with the LD shaft for squirt cancellation.
 
Rachel T said:
I feel my golf game would be better with graphite or steel shafts vs. hickory, even though I have no evidence to prove that.
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The paucity of clubs with hickory shafts would seem to support your conclusion. I'm not trying to buy a game but I decided I didn't want to be like the last guy at Wimbledon with a wooden racquet. And, I believe it was mentioned here, when you have a couple of "identical" wood shafts, one seems to shoot better than the other. Wouldn't you rather shoot with the better one?

My question is, with these two "identical" wood shafts, would everyone prefer the same one?
 
Rachel T said:
What got me to thinking about all this were comments made in a pool tournament by commentators Grady Mathews and Buddy Hall. Grady asked Buddy if he ever had times when he seemed to do everything right but the cue ball strangely went off-line? Buddy, answered, "yes."

Assuming they felt like their stroke was in-line, I then wondered what else could've been the problem.
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Might have been a black beauty twitch...
 
tomatoshooter said:
The paucity of clubs with hickory shafts would seem to support your conclusion. I'm not trying to buy a game but I decided I didn't want to be like the last guy at Wimbledon with a wooden racquet. And, I believe it was mentioned here, when you have a couple of "identical" wood shafts, one seems to shoot better than the other. Wouldn't you rather shoot with the better one?

My question is, with these two "identical" wood shafts, would everyone prefer the same one?
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I want the one that shoots the best or at least the best for my game. I would think one would have to play for many hours with both shafts to finally come to an accurate conclusion. Unfortunately, that could get expensive if having to buy more than one shaft, and who's to say a third or fourth shaft may even be better. I'm sure the pros with sponsors have the luxury of experimenting with many shafts.
 
Willowbrook Wolfy said:
Well low deflection can’t hold up to a solid hit. It’s too weak/light up front and on a harder hit automatically deflects on impact if off center at all. Deflects to easiest direction if you will. A solid shaft is heavier up front and won’t go off path as easily.
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Rachel T said:
Certainly makes sense!
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Hitting harder doesn't increase "deflection" (squirt), no matter what cue we're talking about - but hitting harder does decrease swerve, which looks like more squirt.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Hitting harder doesn't increase "deflection" (squirt), no matter what cue we're talking about - but hitting harder does decrease swerve, which looks like more squirt.

pj
chgo
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I’m not talking the cue ball. The cue deflects more on a harder hit no matter what shaft is on there. Why do you think LD shafts put more spin on cue ball? It’s because the shaft deflects more
 
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garczar said:
LD shafts don't spin the cb more. Balls struck off-center go straighter but they aren't spinning any more. Dr.D's explanation:https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
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I went down the rabbit hole there (too many links to interesting content!) and found out the peak force on a 25 mph break shot can be between 712 lbf (poundsforce) and 1068 lbf. This is actually reasonably close to my back of envelope calculation of 375 lbs average for a 22 mph shot. I should say my calculation is reasonably close, there's no doubt who the real expert is. I was just curious if my calculations hold any water or if I was fundamentally misunderstanding the physics involved.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Hitting harder doesn't increase "deflection" (squirt), no matter what cue we're talking about - but hitting harder does decrease swerve, which looks like more squirt.

pj
chgo
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I've watched several guys on you-tube do deflection tests and the harder they hit the cue ball on off-center hits, the more the ball goes off-line.
 
Rachel T said:
I've watched several guys on you-tube do deflection tests and the harder they hit the cue ball on off-center hits, the more the ball goes off-line.
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The deflection angle is the same regardless of speed. More speed means less swerve so the cb stays on the squirt line longer.
 
garczar said:
The deflection angle is the same regardless of speed. More speed means less swerve so the cb stays on the squirt line longer.
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Yes, it's two distinct actions caused by the same off center hit:

1) Squirt. The cue ball rotates horizontally, pushing itself offline against the tip. The squirt angle is instantaneous and independent of speed, and depends only on how far off center the cue ball is contacted by the tip.

2) Swerve. The cue ball rotates vertically (because the butt is always a little elevated) and "masses" on the cloth in the opposite direction of the squirt. The timing and amount of masse curve depends on how far off center the cue ball is contacted by the tip, how far the butt is elevated, the distance and speed of the shot (harder shots have elongated curves that affect the shot less), and ball/cloth condition.

As you might guess from the above, swerve is by far the more difficult action to cope with - best to avoid it when possible (mostly by keeping a level-as-possible cue).

pj
chgo
 
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garczar said:
LD shafts don't spin the cb more. Balls struck off-center go straighter but they aren't spinning any more. Dr.D's explanation:https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue/low-squirt/#spin
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Yeah it says right in there you get more spin with LD. If you hit the cue ball in the same spot with a non LD and LD shaft the cue ball will spin more with the LD. But you can hit farther off center non LD to get same spin. That’s what I read. And believe it or not that has to do with deflection in the ms the tip touches cb.
 
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