Will 4 inches pockets be the future of US pool, bar box and big table?

TrxR said:
Here is a video that shows the pockets from the world pool masters. He doesn't say the exact measurements of the side pocket but uses two cue balls for reference and shows the 4" corner pockets as well. This is shown starting at about 10:20. What's your guess at the side pocket size according to the video?


I don't think a 4" pocket is good for many other than professionals, too tight and frustrating for alot of players. I'm debating between 4.25 and 4.5 for a personal table .
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Thx for sharing that video. Sides look to be about 1/4" bigger than two balls, making them maybe 4.75", but hard to tell because he never slows down or freezes long enough with detailed balls in pocket views. Other observation is that the pocket facing angles look almost perfectly parallel, which probably means they are in the 138-140 degree zone. Looks to be a very nice table setup.
 
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My thinking is that 4" will not become the standard in American pool. I'm pleased to see that's it's now in vogue in the major championships, such as the WPC and the US Open 9-ball. In this respect, pool will be like golf. Tougher conditions and a stiffer test befit the majors but are not necessary week in and week out.

I greatly applaud Matchroom's decision to do everything in their power to standardize the rules and equipment in pool, with 4" pockets the norm, but let's not forget that the ranking events that they produce are all majors (US Open, WPC, UK Open, European Open). Personally, I'd like to see 4" pockets at the three majors not falling under the Matchroom umbrella, namely the World 10-ball, the China Open 9-ball, and the All Japan 10-ball.

Right now, I think 4 1/2" pockets will do for American events other than the major championships, and I disagree with those that say that 4 1/2" pockets aren't a good enough test of cueing skills.
 
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JCL said:
No trying to convince anyone here just sharing my experience with 4", and certainly benefit my game, also understand people that said that it does not for them, can't be the same for everybody and I totally respect that😀.
I understand your criteria in order to determine playing difficulty, thanks for adding to the forum, but the reason matchroom is changing pocket size is because player wanted that way, after watching pool master and my own experience don't think the game change much, just make it more interesting 😀. ( your table angles are brutal, not even the pros are playing with such angles, would you consider changing it?)
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Cool. As for changing my table, yes when it's time to recover it, plan is to get them to 4.25" and angles rectified. Or, replace the table with one of the Diamonds or GC's I have in my buddy's poolhall and storage :-)
 
garczar said:
In reality there's probably 5-6(maybe more) that shoot insanely straight. Dennis O. for big $$$ just seems to make ALL those long tough shots.
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For sure, but Fedor is the state of the art today. He's the straightest shooter I've ever seen in my 46 years around pro pool. Filler is just a hair behind him.
 
You want the ultimate, tight pocket game, look no further than Chinese 8 ball. No pool table comes close to the difficulty of those corner pockets. NONE other than blackball, but it doesn't really count, smaller balls and tables, different characteristics.. I like Chinese 8 ball, played it quite a bit, even participated in an open tournament. Sadly, nobody wants to play it in my country, and it seems true of most of the Western world. People get frustrated and quit. These are not Mickey Mouse players either, but great cueists from all kinds of cue sports. You can play 9 ball on that table too. I've yet to see anyone play more than a couple of games of that before they quit. Again, not Mickey Mouse, high 600 fargo rated players even a couple of 700s. They try a rack or two, then say F. this, I'm going home. "It's boring" is what they invariably say. That's 99%, who say that exact phrase. That's playing 9 ball, their game of choice. The remaining 1% either plays a style that suits the table, or are utterly fascinated that they cannot pot a ball. That rarely lasts. You see, if you are a half decent pool player, you CAN pocket balls on that table, but you can never get a rhytm going because most humans are going to miss at least once a rack in 9 ball, unless they're all hangers. Running a rack that would be routine on a pool table can be almost impossibly difficult. One bad angle on a rail ball, and it's over.

Ok, so that's too extreme for you. Lets try a Diamond or some off brand table more likely, with 4 inch pockets, then. Keep in mind that on tv tournaments, the rubber is warmed by lights, and the cloth is close to brand new. The table has most likely been set up by the best in the industry. What happens when the regular installer puts on the cloth and it's allowed to stay on for 6 months or a year or more? Well, the pockets may not play perfect, maybe the angles are off a little, the facings can get worn out and the cloth sticky. Add some humidity to that and every A player will look like an APA 5. Fantastic, they'll all love that. Nothing like looking stupid in front of a bunch of guys, your date or whatever, to put a spring in a mans step. The APA 5's on the other hand won't pot a ball an hour. THEY are going to absolutely LLOOOOOVE that. I bet they'll overwhelm the pool halls with their presence.
 
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middleofnowhere said:
I apologize for tricking you. I knew I would get you to say that. I had pocket liners as a training device and it does work
. You don't really want to play the game in general on such tight pockets though. It would become no fun at all in a very short time.
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Not feeling trick at all, but liners Play different than extended subrails, with the right pocket angle 😉
 
MitchAlsup said:
So, you walk for 3 minutes between each shot in pool ?
Pool pockets have flags in them ?
A player can use up to 14 different pool sticks for different shots ?
The pool player and golfer pay green fees, but only the golfer pays for balls.

Then again, I've never seen a 300 yard pool shot--roughly 80 rails in a single shot.
Golf is played in daylight, pool at night.

Never seen a pool ball land in water or a player have to take his shoes and socks off to hit a shot in pool.

A round of golf takes roughly 4 hours, a set of pool how long ?

You hit a pool ball with the stick almost rubbing your hip.
You hit a golf ball standing several feet away and swing the club from shoulder to shoulder.

How exactly is golf like pool in the slightest ??
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Golf is very much like pool in 3 respects: 1. In both you need to perform a physical function ( pool stroke or Golf swing ) in an almost perfectly repeatable fashion through an entire match to be successful at high levels of play. 2. The sense of timing required to perform the stroke or swing at precisely the correct moment where the eyes and body match in agreement . 3. quieting the mind to all outside influences in a competitive environment to perform these tasks in relation to a stationary object.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
You want the ultimate, tight pocket game, look no further than Chinese 8 ball. No pool table comes close to the difficulty of those corner pockets. NONE other than blackball, but it doesn't really count, smaller balls and tables, different characteristics.. I like Chinese 8 ball, played it quite a bit, even participated in an open tournament. Sadly, nobody wants to play it in my country, and it seems true of most of the Western world. People get frustrated and quit. These are not Mickey Mouse players either, but great cueists from all kinds of cue sports. You can play 9 ball on that table too. I've yet to see anyone play more than a couple of games of that before they quit. Again, not Mickey Mouse, high 600 fargo rated players even a couple of 700s. They try a rack or two, then say F. this, I'm going home. "It's boring" is what they say. That's playing 9 ball, their game of choice.

Ok, so that's too extreme for you. Lets try a Diamond with 4 inch pockets, then. Keep in mind that on tv tournaments, the rubber is warmed by lights, and the cloth is close to brand new. The table has most likely been set up by the best in the industry. What happens when the regular installer puts on the cloth and it's allowed to stay on for 6 months or a year or more? Well, the pockets may not play perfect, the facings can get worn out and the cloth sticky. Add some humidity to that and every A player will look like an APA 5. Fantastic, they'll all love that. Nothing like looking stupid in front of a bunch of guys, your date or whatever, to put a spring in a mans step. The APA 5's on the other hand won't pot a ball an hour. THEY are going to absolutely LLOOOOOVE that. I bet they'll overwhelm the pool halls with their presence.
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Great post. I've love to try a Chinese 8b table, have yet to see one. I also think folks often discount the behavior of tight pockets and new cloth and heat/humidity conditions; no doubt that brand new cloth plays a bit more forgiving as far as sliding balls in. Over time and abuse, they definitely play even tougher.
 
mikemosconi said:
Golf is very much like pool in 3 respects: 1. In both you need to perform a physical function ( pool stroke or Golf swing ) in an almost perfectly repeatable fashion through an entire match to be successful at high levels of play. 2. The sense of timing required to perform the stroke or swing at precisely the correct moment where the eyes and body match in agreement . 3. quieting the mind to all outside influences in a competitive environment to perform these tasks in relation to a stationary object.
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This sounds an awful lot like driving a car on a race track at high speed.
 
With 4 & 1/4" pockets like we have with our 8-9 foot Diamonds, I work on safety shots. I'm the only one that does this safety shot training. Ha
 
I firmly believe that opening a new room today for the general public would be most successful with 4 3/4 pockets as the standard for the room. One can always add a few tables to satisfy one pocket players and advanced players who would want 4 1/2 or possibly a bit less.

Nothing would kill the joy of the general public more than trying to play on tight pockets. I also believe that properly set up 4 1/2 inch pockets are just fine to enjoy watching any professional level of play and as a method for more advanced amateur players to hone their skill.
 
MurrayNevada said:
"Ridiculous" you say. It's all about putting a ball in a hole. Your overreaction to my post is probably the result of too much coffee this morning. Breathing exercises help in some cases.
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Not an overreaction, it's my opinion and always has been when these comparisons are made. Golf is far more than being about putting ball in a hole and the non-hole features of a course have a far bigger impact than the size of the hole. Hence I think these comparisons are "ridiculous" and not well thought out. My apologies if "ridiculous" came across as a personal attack and you felt that you ought to throw one back. That certainly wasn't my intention and maybe ridiculous was a poor choice of word. As I said, my apologies - you are entitled to your opinion just as much as I am.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
You want the ultimate, tight pocket game, look no further than Chinese 8 ball. No pool table comes close to the difficulty of those corner pockets. NONE other than blackball, but it doesn't really count, smaller balls and tables, different characteristics.. I like Chinese 8 ball, played it quite a bit, even participated in an open tournament. Sadly, nobody wants to play it in my country, and it seems true of most of the Western world. People get frustrated and quit. These are not Mickey Mouse players either, but great cueists from all kinds of cue sports. You can play 9 ball on that table too. I've yet to see anyone play more than a couple of games of that before they quit. Again, not Mickey Mouse, high 600 fargo rated players even a couple of 700s. They try a rack or two, then say F. this, I'm going home. "It's boring" is what they invariably say. That's 99%, who say that exact phrase. That's playing 9 ball, their game of choice. The remaining 1% either plays a style that suits the table, or are utterly fascinated that they cannot pot a ball. That rarely lasts. You see, if you are a half decent pool player, you CAN pocket balls on that table, but you can never get a rhytm going because most humans are going to miss at least once a rack in 9 ball, unless they're all hangers. Running a rack that would be routine on a pool table can be almost impossibly difficult. One bad angle on a rail ball, and it's over.

Ok, so that's too extreme for you. Lets try a Diamond or some off brand table more likely, with 4 inch pockets, then. Keep in mind that on tv tournaments, the rubber is warmed by lights, and the cloth is close to brand new. The table has most likely been set up by the best in the industry. What happens when the regular installer puts on the cloth and it's allowed to stay on for 6 months or a year or more? Well, the pockets may not play perfect, maybe the angles are off a little, the facings can get worn out and the cloth sticky. Add some humidity to that and every A player will look like an APA 5. Fantastic, they'll all love that. Nothing like looking stupid in front of a bunch of guys, your date or whatever, to put a spring in a mans step. The APA 5's on the other hand won't pot a ball an hour. THEY are going to absolutely LLOOOOOVE that. I bet they'll overwhelm the pool halls with their presence.
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I've tried watching Ch.8b and i find it be very boring to watch. Don't ever see it getting real big outside of Asia. Tough? Yeah. Fun? From i've watched, no.
 
mikemosconi said:
I firmly believe that opening a new room today for the general public would be most successful with 4 3/4 pockets as the standard for the room. One can always add a few tables to satisfy one pocket players and advanced players who would want 4 1/2 or possibly a bit less.

Nothing would kill the joy of the general public more than trying to play on tight pockets. I also believe that properly set up 4 1/2 inch pockets are just fine to enjoy watching any professional level of play and as a method for more advanced amateur players to hone their skill.
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Yup, let the bangers make balls. They will come back and play more.

Put a few tight tables in for players.

Simple formula, most old school rooms did this for years.

Works great

Best
Fatboy
 
mikemosconi said:
If you believe that 4 inch pockets are the future of pool, I would believe that your theory put into practice would result in NO future for pool.
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Watch the biggest promoter of today? What size are they using? I understand that is not for recreational players, but instead for the future pro events
 
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